| There is some right scum in the world 09:33 - Jun 14 with 9165 views | TractorCam |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 12:35 - Jun 14 with 3108 views | TractorCam |
| There is some right scum in the world on 12:24 - Jun 14 by chicoazul |
I agree there needs to be a form of punishment but “shamed” seems very wrong to me. Shaming children. Shamed now can mean a ruined life an inability to earn a living and chronic mental health problems. I think this is a very bad thing to agitate for. |
On a side note, I wonder how many lives would have been ruined if someone needed that defibrillator that morning.
Whilst I wouldn't name and shame them either, would you have a less lenient if somebody had died as a result of needing that? | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 12:41 - Jun 14 with 3098 views | N2_Blue |
| There is some right scum in the world on 12:21 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
I have worked with some of the most challenging young people you could wish to come across for a number of years, both in and out of education, and if you think the main issue here is a lack of deterrent I'm afraid you're entirely ignorant to the issues many teenagers face. You know absolutely nothing about these individuals, why they did what they did, if they have ever been in trouble with the police before etc. People leaping to condemn and hurl abuse at them is in no way helpful and only serves to further demonise all young people and perpetuate the cycle.
For what it's worth, yes it is a very stupid criminal act for which there, quite rightly, will be serious repercussions. |
fair enough, and i agree with what you say, but something needs to change.
Some of the stuff I've seen reported by young people over the last 18 months is really worrying and disturbing, and i am aware of local individuals that have done criminal damage of a similar nature that are wandering around without a care in the world and still being a nuisance to the local community thinking they are untouchable. Their attitude, even if they get caught is, "the police can't do nothing cos I'm not 18".
So whilst i don't want a witch-hunt, especially before being convicted, there does need to be some kind of facing up to the consequences of your actions I'm afraid. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 12:52 - Jun 14 with 3061 views | pointofblue |
Get them to watch the Christian Eriksen footage from Saturday on a loop and see if they understand the importance of working defibs then. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 13:59 - Jun 14 with 3023 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 12:41 - Jun 14 by N2_Blue |
fair enough, and i agree with what you say, but something needs to change.
Some of the stuff I've seen reported by young people over the last 18 months is really worrying and disturbing, and i am aware of local individuals that have done criminal damage of a similar nature that are wandering around without a care in the world and still being a nuisance to the local community thinking they are untouchable. Their attitude, even if they get caught is, "the police can't do nothing cos I'm not 18".
So whilst i don't want a witch-hunt, especially before being convicted, there does need to be some kind of facing up to the consequences of your actions I'm afraid. |
But again, you're making assumptions about this particular case based on a very narrow view of young people who engage in criminal damage.
Of course they should be made to face the consequences of their actions, I don't think anybody has suggested otherwise.
This is a huge topic which could easily go on for pages, but much like the adult justice system, rehabilitation delivers far better results than punishment alone. Restorative justice needs to be used. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 14:39 - Jun 14 with 3004 views | bluelagos |
| There is some right scum in the world on 10:45 - Jun 14 by Crawfordsboot |
Before we put these two up against the wall and shoot them stop and think.
Should they be called “right scum”, “given a good slapping” etc. Or should we sit them down, show them a film of a defibrillator saving someone’s life and then ask them to think about the consequences of their actions, and to write those reflections down?
All kids make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are quite serious. It is how adults respond to those mistakes that will define how the kids in turn respond and hopefully learn.
A good slapping simply encourages them not to get caught. |
What he said. Kid is 17 ffs. I think your approach was be far more beneficial than the public lynching many seem to want. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 14:47 - Jun 14 with 2986 views | jeera |
| There is some right scum in the world on 14:39 - Jun 14 by bluelagos |
What he said. Kid is 17 ffs. I think your approach was be far more beneficial than the public lynching many seem to want. |
True, although to be fair some of this has come out since (I guess, I don't know tbh) and my initial reaction when I first saw it was a sweary one.
But if we're going to call people scum, then maybe that would be better represented by these morons bottling coppers whilst they battle to save someone's life:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-57460791 |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 14:53 - Jun 14 with 2969 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 12:24 - Jun 14 by chicoazul |
I agree there needs to be a form of punishment but “shamed” seems very wrong to me. Shaming children. Shamed now can mean a ruined life an inability to earn a living and chronic mental health problems. I think this is a very bad thing to agitate for. |
He's 17. He's not a child FFS.
And to the other poster defending this - no, I didn't do such things when I was 17. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 14:57 - Jun 14 with 2952 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 14:39 - Jun 14 by bluelagos |
What he said. Kid is 17 ffs. I think your approach was be far more beneficial than the public lynching many seem to want. |
You're old enough to know what you're doing at 17.
I can't believe the sympathy I'm reading for these scumbags. Lives could've been lost by their actions and some of you want to hold their hands.
I hope the book is thrown at them. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 14:59 - Jun 14 with 2953 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 14:53 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He's 17. He's not a child FFS.
And to the other poster defending this - no, I didn't do such things when I was 17. |
If having read the thread you think anyone is defending their actions, then I highly doubt you have the wit to discuss the matter. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:02 - Jun 14 with 2950 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 14:57 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're old enough to know what you're doing at 17.
I can't believe the sympathy I'm reading for these scumbags. Lives could've been lost by their actions and some of you want to hold their hands.
I hope the book is thrown at them. |
Again, nobody has been sympathetic to them. It's a matter of what you want to achieve, an eye for an eye, or actually doing something to prevent this happening again in the future?
I'm fascinated to hear what you think "throwing the book at them" will achieve. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:04 - Jun 14 with 2940 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 14:59 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
If having read the thread you think anyone is defending their actions, then I highly doubt you have the wit to discuss the matter. |
I think common sense is required here rather than wit.
I also didn't say anyone was defending their actions, but you are defending them as people.
There's no defence for this IMO. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:08 - Jun 14 with 2933 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:02 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
Again, nobody has been sympathetic to them. It's a matter of what you want to achieve, an eye for an eye, or actually doing something to prevent this happening again in the future?
I'm fascinated to hear what you think "throwing the book at them" will achieve. |
I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be any rehabilitation. But strong punishment and shaming might stop others doing similar in future. If we make this seen as something 'not cool', even amongst scrotes, then that will be a great achievement.
You and a couple of others have clearly been sympathetic to them. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:10 - Jun 14 with 2928 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:04 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think common sense is required here rather than wit.
I also didn't say anyone was defending their actions, but you are defending them as people.
There's no defence for this IMO. |
I would politely suggest you have a very binary view of behaviour. People make poor choices, do bad things, particularly at a young age. I'm not defending them as people, I know nothing about them and have made no assumptions either way. But I do know something about young people in general who engage in anti-social and criminal behaviour and if you want to make a positive change, you have to foster that by supporting and teaching them to make better choices.
Labelling them as "scum" and "throwing the book at them" will in the vast majority of cases only serve to see this behaviour repeated and escalated, at great further cost to society. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:16 - Jun 14 with 2916 views | chicoazul |
| There is some right scum in the world on 14:59 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
If having read the thread you think anyone is defending their actions, then I highly doubt you have the wit to discuss the matter. |
I have Jerseys on ignore but would like to take this chance to remind everyone he didn’t think people knocking over a stone was a very big deal. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:28 - Jun 14 with 2897 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:10 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
I would politely suggest you have a very binary view of behaviour. People make poor choices, do bad things, particularly at a young age. I'm not defending them as people, I know nothing about them and have made no assumptions either way. But I do know something about young people in general who engage in anti-social and criminal behaviour and if you want to make a positive change, you have to foster that by supporting and teaching them to make better choices.
Labelling them as "scum" and "throwing the book at them" will in the vast majority of cases only serve to see this behaviour repeated and escalated, at great further cost to society. |
I've said above I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be any rehabilitation. But you've chosen to ignore that and gone with "labelling them as "scum" and "throwing the book at them"" as my only options.
Bit of both required IMO. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:32 - Jun 14 with 2881 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:08 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be any rehabilitation. But strong punishment and shaming might stop others doing similar in future. If we make this seen as something 'not cool', even amongst scrotes, then that will be a great achievement.
You and a couple of others have clearly been sympathetic to them. |
"Strong punishment and shaming" won't make a blind bit of difference to what others who are likely to engage in these acts will think and do I'm afraid. What it will do is put these particular young people at increased risk of rejection, social isolation, and all the associated likelihood of getting trapped in a cycle of reoffending.
You can argue black is white on the sympathy thing if you like. Behaviour is communication, in order to change behaviour you need to understand what is being communicated, the experiences and feelings which led to that behaviour. The uninformed often mistake this for sympathy. I have no sympathy for the repercussions they will personally face as a result of their actions, I just hope they learn from them. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:39 - Jun 14 with 2866 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:16 - Jun 14 by chicoazul |
I have Jerseys on ignore but would like to take this chance to remind everyone he didn’t think people knocking over a stone was a very big deal. |
Yeah, and I stand by the idea that destroying a defibrillator is worse than knocking a stone over.
Also, if you're going to ignore me do it properly, not this cowardly "I'm ignoring you but still talking about you" nonsense. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 15:44 - Jun 14 with 2853 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:32 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
"Strong punishment and shaming" won't make a blind bit of difference to what others who are likely to engage in these acts will think and do I'm afraid. What it will do is put these particular young people at increased risk of rejection, social isolation, and all the associated likelihood of getting trapped in a cycle of reoffending.
You can argue black is white on the sympathy thing if you like. Behaviour is communication, in order to change behaviour you need to understand what is being communicated, the experiences and feelings which led to that behaviour. The uninformed often mistake this for sympathy. I have no sympathy for the repercussions they will personally face as a result of their actions, I just hope they learn from them. |
What do you think should happen then? I wouldn't be surprised if we're not that far apart in our opinions. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 16:26 - Jun 14 with 2826 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:44 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What do you think should happen then? I wouldn't be surprised if we're not that far apart in our opinions. |
I think we probably are and I thought the same with N2 earlier once we actual got past the initial pitchforks stuff.
Charge them with criminal damage, they will probably get community service depending on previous record. I would suggest if the equipment is repairable then that community service should be spent working alongside a youth worker to lead the fundraising to pay for the repairs or to raise funds for a replacement. Would give them the opportunity to own their mistake, do something positive that might improve their self esteem and learn there is more to life than getting pissed and engaging in petty crime. Would also possibly give them some kind of support structure moving forwards if there are other factors beyond boredom/stupidity as to why they committed the offence in the first place.
I would then reflect on how things might have played out if that kind of support had not been critically underfunded in the first place, prevention being better than cure, but that's a separate argument. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 16:35 - Jun 14 with 2815 views | bluelagos |
| There is some right scum in the world on 15:39 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah, and I stand by the idea that destroying a defibrillator is worse than knocking a stone over.
Also, if you're going to ignore me do it properly, not this cowardly "I'm ignoring you but still talking about you" nonsense. |
You seem certain that the guy in question knew it was a defibrillator he was vandalising/destroying.
For me, there is nothing to indicate he knew that, rather than it being a random bit of stupid showing off / vandalism.
Suspect that is the real basis of difference of opinions here. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 16:38 - Jun 14 with 2812 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 16:26 - Jun 14 by SouperJim |
I think we probably are and I thought the same with N2 earlier once we actual got past the initial pitchforks stuff.
Charge them with criminal damage, they will probably get community service depending on previous record. I would suggest if the equipment is repairable then that community service should be spent working alongside a youth worker to lead the fundraising to pay for the repairs or to raise funds for a replacement. Would give them the opportunity to own their mistake, do something positive that might improve their self esteem and learn there is more to life than getting pissed and engaging in petty crime. Would also possibly give them some kind of support structure moving forwards if there are other factors beyond boredom/stupidity as to why they committed the offence in the first place.
I would then reflect on how things might have played out if that kind of support had not been critically underfunded in the first place, prevention being better than cure, but that's a separate argument. |
Yeah seems reasonable. Perhaps some jail time too if they're repeat offenders.
I'm not sure comments like "pitchforks stuff" are helpful. I think people are rightly angered by this. Wanting to see a just punishment, as well as some form of rehab, isn't pitchforks stuff. And I don't think anyone in the thread suggested anything on the lines that would suggest pitchforks anyway. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 16:51 - Jun 14 with 2794 views | Warkystache |
| There is some right scum in the world on 16:35 - Jun 14 by bluelagos |
You seem certain that the guy in question knew it was a defibrillator he was vandalising/destroying.
For me, there is nothing to indicate he knew that, rather than it being a random bit of stupid showing off / vandalism.
Suspect that is the real basis of difference of opinions here. |
And the fact many of them have DEFIBRILLATOR on the outside of the box doesn't tell them automatically. Many can't read properly. Blame the government.
And it was dark, and that's the fault of putting the clocks forward. Government again.
I'm in agreement with Dolly on this. I'd also go round that lad's and girl's houses and smash up their PS5/Xbox and mobile phone. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 16:56 - Jun 14 with 2776 views | bluelagos |
| There is some right scum in the world on 16:51 - Jun 14 by Warkystache |
And the fact many of them have DEFIBRILLATOR on the outside of the box doesn't tell them automatically. Many can't read properly. Blame the government.
And it was dark, and that's the fault of putting the clocks forward. Government again.
I'm in agreement with Dolly on this. I'd also go round that lad's and girl's houses and smash up their PS5/Xbox and mobile phone. |
Solve violence and thuggery with violence and thuggery.
Priceless. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:01 - Jun 14 with 2767 views | Warkystache |
| There is some right scum in the world on 16:56 - Jun 14 by bluelagos |
Solve violence and thuggery with violence and thuggery.
Priceless. |
Do you read the bible, Blue?
See, there's a passage in there from Exodus 21 about an 'eye for an eye'. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:05 - Jun 14 with 2755 views | bluelagos |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:01 - Jun 14 by Warkystache |
Do you read the bible, Blue?
See, there's a passage in there from Exodus 21 about an 'eye for an eye'. |
No, not remotely religious.
Prefer to listen to and leave it to the police tbh | |
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