| There is some right scum in the world 09:33 - Jun 14 with 9167 views | TractorCam |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:26 - Jun 14 with 1826 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 16:35 - Jun 14 by bluelagos |
You seem certain that the guy in question knew it was a defibrillator he was vandalising/destroying.
For me, there is nothing to indicate he knew that, rather than it being a random bit of stupid showing off / vandalism.
Suspect that is the real basis of difference of opinions here. |
I would've thought the usage instructions on it would make it obvious what it's for.
And I certainly knew what a defibrillator was at the age of 17. You seem to be bending over backwards to defend these tvvats and I'm not sure why. Saying that they might not know what it was seems to be trying too hard to find an excuse IMO. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:26 - Jun 14 with 1825 views | jeera |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:01 - Jun 14 by Warkystache |
Do you read the bible, Blue?
See, there's a passage in there from Exodus 21 about an 'eye for an eye'. |
OT Tashers, OT, not the NT.
If one were to believe in all that, (I don't), then the rules were rewritten in the NT. That was the point of forgiveness etc to over ride the old ways.
I wouldn't have a problem with the lad being forced to sell his games console[s] for the cash to go towards a new defib though. That would be a fair lesson. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:31 - Jun 14 with 1821 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:26 - Jun 14 by jeera |
OT Tashers, OT, not the NT.
If one were to believe in all that, (I don't), then the rules were rewritten in the NT. That was the point of forgiveness etc to over ride the old ways.
I wouldn't have a problem with the lad being forced to sell his games console[s] for the cash to go towards a new defib though. That would be a fair lesson. |
Oh but we're assuming he plays computer games. Maybe he's one of those lovely young men who, when he's not rescuing kittens from canals, paints sunflowers and writes wistful poetry. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:46 - Jun 14 with 1804 views | Vic |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:01 - Jun 14 by Warkystache |
Do you read the bible, Blue?
See, there's a passage in there from Exodus 21 about an 'eye for an eye'. |
Walky- the eye for an eye thing in Exidus was a law to limit justice to make sure that it was fair and fit the crime. It was also to stop individuals or a lynch mob taking the law into their own hands. It was an absolutely revolutionary restriction at the time in was given.
In the New Testament Jesus (who claimed to be the God who gave that bit of law in the first place) said it was time to evolve and move away simply from tit for tat justice and move into a new era of proactive help for others - see Matt 5v38!
Just wanting to keep things factual! |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:47 - Jun 14 with 1801 views | Vic |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:26 - Jun 14 by jeera |
OT Tashers, OT, not the NT.
If one were to believe in all that, (I don't), then the rules were rewritten in the NT. That was the point of forgiveness etc to over ride the old ways.
I wouldn't have a problem with the lad being forced to sell his games console[s] for the cash to go towards a new defib though. That would be a fair lesson. |
Love the idea of selling his games console to pay for the defibrillator. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 17:59 - Jun 14 with 1791 views | WeWereZombies |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:47 - Jun 14 by Vic |
Love the idea of selling his games console to pay for the defibrillator. |
A new defibrillator costs between eight hundred to two and a half thousand pounds, then there are maintenance costs including new batteries at twenty to three hundred pounds a time. It would need to be a pretty special games console...
https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/i-need-to-know/defibrillator-guide-for-first-t |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:00 - Jun 14 with 1791 views | SouperJim |
| There is some right scum in the world on 16:38 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah seems reasonable. Perhaps some jail time too if they're repeat offenders.
I'm not sure comments like "pitchforks stuff" are helpful. I think people are rightly angered by this. Wanting to see a just punishment, as well as some form of rehab, isn't pitchforks stuff. And I don't think anyone in the thread suggested anything on the lines that would suggest pitchforks anyway. |
You've misrepresented my comments, I was referring to the fact they've been repeatedly called scum, should be on the receiving end of violence, have their possessions destroyed etc. It's right here in the thread, it's that which I'm calling pitchforks stuff and it's that which is not helpful.
I thought we'd reached some kind of middle ground so I'm not sure why you're now attempting to gaslight me. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:03 - Jun 14 with 1786 views | Vic |
Yep I realize that! Obviously I didn’t actually mean to imply that one was equal to the other. But it might just help him appreciate a little bit of the cost of his actions. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:05 - Jun 14 with 1784 views | bluelagos |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:26 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I would've thought the usage instructions on it would make it obvious what it's for.
And I certainly knew what a defibrillator was at the age of 17. You seem to be bending over backwards to defend these tvvats and I'm not sure why. Saying that they might not know what it was seems to be trying too hard to find an excuse IMO. |
Which is kind of the point. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else knows what the guy knew/saw or realised when he was vandalising it. You can assume all you like, but you don't know any more than I do.
That is why we have a justice system Dolly, rather than leaving it to a mob to decide. We let the guy have his say, decide on his guilt (Which looks fairly certain I'll concede) and then take account of the circumstances before passing punishment.
People labeling him "scum" whilst knowing not a thing about his background etc. are entitled to their opinion. I just choose not to judge him until I actually know a bit more about him tbh.
I have not made one excuse for his behaviour, nor has anyone else on this thread. I simply choose to hold back in condemning someone about who I know nothing about.
And I have lived in societies where "the mob" do take precedence over law and order. I have seen first hand dead bodies of people caught stealing. I have seen exactly how people are treated without even the opportunity to plead their case.
And it isn't a nice way of doing things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluu_Four_lynching
I appreciate people are angry with what they perceive as happened. I simply suggest we wait until we know all the circumstances and allow the police/courts to do their job without the calls for public shaming etc. [Post edited 14 Jun 2021 18:15]
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:14 - Jun 14 with 1770 views | jeera |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:03 - Jun 14 by Vic |
Yep I realize that! Obviously I didn’t actually mean to imply that one was equal to the other. But it might just help him appreciate a little bit of the cost of his actions. |
Exactly.
We knew what we meant.
Take something away he treasures and flog it to make the point. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:17 - Jun 14 with 1764 views | jeera |
| There is some right scum in the world on 17:31 - Jun 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Oh but we're assuming he plays computer games. Maybe he's one of those lovely young men who, when he's not rescuing kittens from canals, paints sunflowers and writes wistful poetry. |
So you're suggesting he should have his painting equipment taken away along with his kitten rescuing cape. And even maybe his fountain pen too?!
Harsh mate, but probably fair. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:22 - Jun 14 with 1750 views | jeera |
We know that you pedant. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:26 - Jun 14 with 1745 views | noggin |
| There is some right scum in the world on 12:07 - Jun 14 by N2_Blue |
and this soft touch response is exactly why society is where it is today and levels of respect for people and property are lower than ever.
I'm sure people did do things they're not proud of as a teenager but i am also sure 'most' did not go around doing needless criminal damage.
Something is going very wrong in society and yes learning and education is at the forefront but these individuals need to be punished as well as educated to the error of their ways. There have to be repercussions. Many do this kind of thing because there is no deterrent, its fun to them and a slap on the wrist won't stop them doing it again.
They need to be both shamed and educated...so that they both learn and realise there are repercussions to this type of behaviour. |
"and this soft touch response is exactly why society is where it is today and levels of respect for people and property are lower than ever. "
Yeah because locking people up in prison works doesn't it? |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:31 - Jun 14 with 1732 views | DanTheMan |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:05 - Jun 14 by bluelagos |
Which is kind of the point. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else knows what the guy knew/saw or realised when he was vandalising it. You can assume all you like, but you don't know any more than I do.
That is why we have a justice system Dolly, rather than leaving it to a mob to decide. We let the guy have his say, decide on his guilt (Which looks fairly certain I'll concede) and then take account of the circumstances before passing punishment.
People labeling him "scum" whilst knowing not a thing about his background etc. are entitled to their opinion. I just choose not to judge him until I actually know a bit more about him tbh.
I have not made one excuse for his behaviour, nor has anyone else on this thread. I simply choose to hold back in condemning someone about who I know nothing about.
And I have lived in societies where "the mob" do take precedence over law and order. I have seen first hand dead bodies of people caught stealing. I have seen exactly how people are treated without even the opportunity to plead their case.
And it isn't a nice way of doing things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluu_Four_lynching
I appreciate people are angry with what they perceive as happened. I simply suggest we wait until we know all the circumstances and allow the police/courts to do their job without the calls for public shaming etc. [Post edited 14 Jun 2021 18:15]
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People will have forgotten all about this by tomorrow.
Real justice takes a bit of time and there'll be something else to get outraged about by then. [Post edited 14 Jun 2021 18:31]
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:43 - Jun 14 with 1712 views | N2_Blue |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:26 - Jun 14 by noggin |
"and this soft touch response is exactly why society is where it is today and levels of respect for people and property are lower than ever. "
Yeah because locking people up in prison works doesn't it? |
I haven't said they should be locked up have i?
I said something needs to change, I don't have the answer, but somewhat surprised at the sympathy shown to them by being called scum.
People call people who happen to support another team who wear yellow shirts scum so it's not completely obscene, but shows your disgust for them...and i am disgusted far more by these individuals that for any person who has the audacity to support a rival football team in yellow.
I am also against lynch mob mentality and trial by social media in most circumstances...but this is a case where the evidence is indisputable. |  |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:49 - Jun 14 with 1697 views | noggin |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:43 - Jun 14 by N2_Blue |
I haven't said they should be locked up have i?
I said something needs to change, I don't have the answer, but somewhat surprised at the sympathy shown to them by being called scum.
People call people who happen to support another team who wear yellow shirts scum so it's not completely obscene, but shows your disgust for them...and i am disgusted far more by these individuals that for any person who has the audacity to support a rival football team in yellow.
I am also against lynch mob mentality and trial by social media in most circumstances...but this is a case where the evidence is indisputable. |
My comment was more to do with the "this soft touch response is exactly why society is where it is today" bit.
Hard punishments are not the answer. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 18:53 - Jun 14 with 1693 views | jeera |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:49 - Jun 14 by noggin |
My comment was more to do with the "this soft touch response is exactly why society is where it is today" bit.
Hard punishments are not the answer. |
OMG I bet you think murderers should have Play Stations and free ice cream.
I don't really believe that, but it is the sort of thing people come up with.
To be fair, if he'd been caught by someone smashing that and he'd a got a smack I wouldn't be sorry for him. And I genuinely do think people should be made to pay financially for things they deliberately break.
But no, trying to destroy someone's life for being a tw@t is something quite different. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 19:01 - Jun 14 with 1683 views | N2_Blue |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:49 - Jun 14 by noggin |
My comment was more to do with the "this soft touch response is exactly why society is where it is today" bit.
Hard punishments are not the answer. |
I don't believe a hard punishment by being locked up is the answer either. But nor do I think being lined up in front of a judge, given a slap on the wrist in the sense of a suspended sentence with a few hours community service painting some railings in the answer either.
More and more youth offenders are coming out with this line that they think they are untouchable due to their age....and unfortunately they are right. This is well known within criminal gangs and juveniles committing petty theft or ASB.
The majority of crimes of this nature have no real deterrent. Whilst education is lacking and not ever going to change under Tory austerity the lack of respect for people and property is increasing and people need to realise there are repercussions for this behaviour.... I don't know what those are, but I'm not going lose any sleep over them being called scum and having an awkward time until they show remorse and earn forgiveness by giving something back to society. If they do that they will be given another chance to get back on track and show it was an 'immature mistake'. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 19:10 - Jun 14 with 1671 views | noggin |
| There is some right scum in the world on 19:01 - Jun 14 by N2_Blue |
I don't believe a hard punishment by being locked up is the answer either. But nor do I think being lined up in front of a judge, given a slap on the wrist in the sense of a suspended sentence with a few hours community service painting some railings in the answer either.
More and more youth offenders are coming out with this line that they think they are untouchable due to their age....and unfortunately they are right. This is well known within criminal gangs and juveniles committing petty theft or ASB.
The majority of crimes of this nature have no real deterrent. Whilst education is lacking and not ever going to change under Tory austerity the lack of respect for people and property is increasing and people need to realise there are repercussions for this behaviour.... I don't know what those are, but I'm not going lose any sleep over them being called scum and having an awkward time until they show remorse and earn forgiveness by giving something back to society. If they do that they will be given another chance to get back on track and show it was an 'immature mistake'. |
I don't know the annual cost to the tax payer of the prison system but it's obviously a huge amount. There has to be a better way to use those billions of pounds. Investment in poorer areas of the country, giving kids an alternative to crime and dropping out of school, would seem sensible to me. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 19:29 - Jun 14 with 1649 views | N2_Blue |
| There is some right scum in the world on 19:10 - Jun 14 by noggin |
I don't know the annual cost to the tax payer of the prison system but it's obviously a huge amount. There has to be a better way to use those billions of pounds. Investment in poorer areas of the country, giving kids an alternative to crime and dropping out of school, would seem sensible to me. |
Absolutely agree.
Unfortunately i don't think this country will ever implement something like this...certainly not anytime soon. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 19:39 - Jun 14 with 1640 views | WeWereZombies |
| There is some right scum in the world on 18:22 - Jun 14 by jeera |
We know that you pedant. |
I didn't until I started to help raise money for the local ones...or that the provision of defibrillators was usually down to local volunteer effort. | |
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| There is some right scum in the world on 19:57 - Jun 14 with 1627 views | jeera |
| There is some right scum in the world on 19:39 - Jun 14 by WeWereZombies |
I didn't until I started to help raise money for the local ones...or that the provision of defibrillators was usually down to local volunteer effort. |
A local pub here was running quiz nights with the proceeds supposedly going towards a defibrillator for the village.
The quiz nights stopped and have not yet restarted but I will be making enquiries to see if the money still exists that was raised up until that point.
It seemed such a good cause but the landlord hasn't mentioned it for quite some time. | |
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