| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players 12:12 - Jun 14 with 2786 views | MaySixth |
around him and his value would still increase
central midfield options of Evans, Downes, Harper, Crooks and Nolan would be fantastic |  |
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| Could not agree more...best player we have on 12:15 - Jun 14 with 2753 views | unstableblue |
And has owned games before and has the tenacity that so many others have failed to show |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:15 - Jun 14 with 2751 views | StokieBlue |
It would be excellent.
But Downes has already tried to leave previously, seems unlikely he isn't going to push for a move if one is available and it makes sense to him.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:15 - Jun 14 with 2749 views | Swansea_Blue |
I'd forgotten about Nolan. Surely if there's going to be a clear out of players like Dozzell and Downes, Nolan should be out the door first. Although I suppose that means someone would want to stump up cash for him, which given the stage of his career and level he's at now in L1 is probably unlikely. He can be very good, but all far too sporadically. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:17 - Jun 14 with 2703 views | marchy |
Certainly would, but he didn't want to be here last year, and by all accounts he still doesn't in spite of all the things there are to be optimistic about now. So let him go and live the dream of sitting on a Championship bench if that's what he wants. |  | | |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:19 - Jun 14 with 2680 views | positivity |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:15 - Jun 14 by Swansea_Blue |
I'd forgotten about Nolan. Surely if there's going to be a clear out of players like Dozzell and Downes, Nolan should be out the door first. Although I suppose that means someone would want to stump up cash for him, which given the stage of his career and level he's at now in L1 is probably unlikely. He can be very good, but all far too sporadically. |
nolan fits cook's system better than doz.
i'd much rather keep downes over nolan, but getting transfer fees in is important for the ffp thing, and downes will raise more than nolan.
sounds like neither will be first choice if the likes of harper, crooks and evans are coming on | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:21 - Jun 14 with 2617 views | belgablue |
I think he's a cracking player but given his previous desire to leave and the fact there are many reasons to be optimistic about the club's future I'm non-plussed as to whether or not he stays now. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:22 - Jun 14 with 2606 views | MrTown |
I think he is a fantastic player, but he doesn't want to be here, so happy to negotiate a good fee and let him move. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:32 - Jun 14 with 2512 views | jayessess |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:19 - Jun 14 by positivity |
nolan fits cook's system better than doz.
i'd much rather keep downes over nolan, but getting transfer fees in is important for the ffp thing, and downes will raise more than nolan.
sounds like neither will be first choice if the likes of harper, crooks and evans are coming on |
Can't see that he fits better than either of them? Makes fewer defensive contributions, creates fewer chances, gets on the ball far less. He's got them both on goals, but 8 in 3 seasons is hardly enough to carry him if he's a passenger on every other measure. Plus he's 29, won't improve and injury prone.
He might fit better as a player who has nowhere to go and no resale value, who'll be a squad player without much complaint, but in pure football terms, no way. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:36 - Jun 14 with 2466 views | Garv |
I'd be surprised if we get Crooks.
Selling Downes so keenly does seem a strange one. Depends on what we get for him I suppose. He's shown a desire to leave which doesn't help. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:39 - Jun 14 with 2423 views | Garv |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:32 - Jun 14 by jayessess |
Can't see that he fits better than either of them? Makes fewer defensive contributions, creates fewer chances, gets on the ball far less. He's got them both on goals, but 8 in 3 seasons is hardly enough to carry him if he's a passenger on every other measure. Plus he's 29, won't improve and injury prone.
He might fit better as a player who has nowhere to go and no resale value, who'll be a squad player without much complaint, but in pure football terms, no way. |
Why can a 29 year old not improve? I see this so much and it doesn't make sense.
How old was Magilton when he joined us, or Murphy when he scored 27 in a season?
I don't particularly rate Nolan, by the way. Ponderous isn't a great attribute to have as a midfielder. | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:45 - Jun 14 with 2369 views | marchy |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:39 - Jun 14 by Garv |
Why can a 29 year old not improve? I see this so much and it doesn't make sense.
How old was Magilton when he joined us, or Murphy when he scored 27 in a season?
I don't particularly rate Nolan, by the way. Ponderous isn't a great attribute to have as a midfielder. |
Magilton had already had a decent Premiership career, and Murphy was an international who, whilst not exactly prolific at the point he joined us, had more than enough going for him to make him well worth persevering with.
Nolan's utterly average in every aspect of his game, and we've already spent three seasons hoping there might be "a player in there". Time's surely better spent on new signings or young players coming through. [Post edited 14 Jun 2021 12:45]
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:02 - Jun 14 with 2298 views | jayessess |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 12:39 - Jun 14 by Garv |
Why can a 29 year old not improve? I see this so much and it doesn't make sense.
How old was Magilton when he joined us, or Murphy when he scored 27 in a season?
I don't particularly rate Nolan, by the way. Ponderous isn't a great attribute to have as a midfielder. |
Footballers tend to peak between 25 and 30 (some research here - https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-sports-analytics/jsa0021 - this suggests the actual peak is 25, although the decline only starts accelerating from 30). That's the period where their knowledge, experience and physical ability are going to combine best. There are exceptions to that, but generally speaking, it's fairly rare for footballers to suddenly discover skills they hadn't previously demonstrated that late in their career and inevitable that the physical aspect of their game will decline.
Magilton played 150+ games in the Premier League before he came to us. He didn't suddenly improve when he came to us, he was already good.
Murphy was fairly unusual in that he did discover new elements to his game relatively late in his career. Although you might also attribute that to the way we used him, the consistent role he had at Ipswich and the different level he played at during different phases of his career. | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:06 - Jun 14 with 2276 views | itfc_bucks |
While this thread is about Flynn, I feel it worth saying that Nolan is being scape-goated a bit here. He's been so far from being one of our worse performers, it's just not even funny.
He's a solid player, easily good enough to feature for a team with aspirations of escaping L1.
For a team looking to promotion from the Camp, maybe not, but we're not at that stage yet.
I'd love Downes to stay, sadly, I just can't see it happening. | | | |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:30 - Jun 14 with 2181 views | HalifaxBlue |
Sadly I think it's past that point now - although I agree, I think Downes is the one midfielder at the club who would fit Cook's new midfielder (jury out on Nolan, as it has been for 2 years).
I think Flynn is the one we are most likely to look back and regret - it would appear we are going to offload him at his lowest point of value since he broke into the first team. It's not good business, but hey it seems we can afford the odd bit of bad business now.
I really do think that if we kept him until January, in a more combative midfield and a (hopefully) more confident team, we'd see his value more than double. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:47 - Jun 14 with 2106 views | jayessess |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:06 - Jun 14 by itfc_bucks |
While this thread is about Flynn, I feel it worth saying that Nolan is being scape-goated a bit here. He's been so far from being one of our worse performers, it's just not even funny.
He's a solid player, easily good enough to feature for a team with aspirations of escaping L1.
For a team looking to promotion from the Camp, maybe not, but we're not at that stage yet.
I'd love Downes to stay, sadly, I just can't see it happening. |
Statistically he was our worst midfielder for tackles, interceptions, chance creation and a bunch of other stuff. He contributed less defensively than Bishop and way less than Dozzell, who everyone seems to have decided is too lightweight for Cook's 2. So I guess I just wonder where on Earth he plays in a 4-2-3-1? Unless we think his good finishing makes him an adequate Number 10? | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:02 - Jun 14 with 2063 views | LeoMuff |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:30 - Jun 14 by HalifaxBlue |
Sadly I think it's past that point now - although I agree, I think Downes is the one midfielder at the club who would fit Cook's new midfielder (jury out on Nolan, as it has been for 2 years).
I think Flynn is the one we are most likely to look back and regret - it would appear we are going to offload him at his lowest point of value since he broke into the first team. It's not good business, but hey it seems we can afford the odd bit of bad business now.
I really do think that if we kept him until January, in a more combative midfield and a (hopefully) more confident team, we'd see his value more than double. |
I’m sure we will do all in our power to keep him, but as others said wanted out for some time. |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:29 - Jun 14 with 1999 views | itfc_bucks |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 13:47 - Jun 14 by jayessess |
Statistically he was our worst midfielder for tackles, interceptions, chance creation and a bunch of other stuff. He contributed less defensively than Bishop and way less than Dozzell, who everyone seems to have decided is too lightweight for Cook's 2. So I guess I just wonder where on Earth he plays in a 4-2-3-1? Unless we think his good finishing makes him an adequate Number 10? |
Normally, I'm the first to argue against this sort of approach (see my POV ref Kenlock for proof!), but I think that stats and data doesn't really do justice to the player that's in there. Let's be honest, that midfield was woeful and Pirlo would've looked crap in it!
Better players around him, and he'll be fine.
Not a world-beater, but he'll be ok for us. | | | |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:37 - Jun 14 with 1975 views | HalifaxBlue |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:02 - Jun 14 by LeoMuff |
I’m sure we will do all in our power to keep him, but as others said wanted out for some time. |
I wouldn't consider telling him he is free to leave to be doing everything in our power to keep him.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying it's the wrong choice. But the club wants him gone and the result is we'll get peanuts compared to what he'd be worth in form. | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:39 - Jun 14 with 1968 views | LeoMuff |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:37 - Jun 14 by HalifaxBlue |
I wouldn't consider telling him he is free to leave to be doing everything in our power to keep him.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying it's the wrong choice. But the club wants him gone and the result is we'll get peanuts compared to what he'd be worth in form. |
Do we know 100% he was told that then ? | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:41 - Jun 14 with 1962 views | HalifaxBlue |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:39 - Jun 14 by LeoMuff |
Do we know 100% he was told that then ? |
Was he not widely reported to be included in the players told to find a new club?
Edit: yes he was explicitly mentioned in the report by EADT.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ipswich-town-boss-cook-tells-players-t
I think their account have been fairly well corroborated by good sources. Can't recall off the top of my head if Phil ever explicitly mentioned Flynn. [Post edited 14 Jun 2021 14:45]
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:00 - Jun 14 with 1907 views | ArnieM |
OP….which bit of “this player doesn’t want to stay at this Club”, don’t fans get ? |  |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:24 - Jun 14 with 1861 views | jayessess |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 14:29 - Jun 14 by itfc_bucks |
Normally, I'm the first to argue against this sort of approach (see my POV ref Kenlock for proof!), but I think that stats and data doesn't really do justice to the player that's in there. Let's be honest, that midfield was woeful and Pirlo would've looked crap in it!
Better players around him, and he'll be fine.
Not a world-beater, but he'll be ok for us. |
You could make that case for pretty much anyone at the club, couldn't you? And the comparison here is between Nolan and the rest of our "woeful midfielders". He was the worst of the four on those measures when he played.
That said, I understand (for a variety of reasons) why he's the one out of the four who's most convenient to have as a squad player and of course he'll look better in a better team. But he ranks bottom out of the 4 on quality alone. | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:29 - Jun 14 with 1848 views | ArnieM |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:24 - Jun 14 by jayessess |
You could make that case for pretty much anyone at the club, couldn't you? And the comparison here is between Nolan and the rest of our "woeful midfielders". He was the worst of the four on those measures when he played.
That said, I understand (for a variety of reasons) why he's the one out of the four who's most convenient to have as a squad player and of course he'll look better in a better team. But he ranks bottom out of the 4 on quality alone. |
….. his weaknesses will be hidden in a better team. | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:45 - Jun 14 with 1810 views | HalifaxBlue |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:29 - Jun 14 by ArnieM |
….. his weaknesses will be hidden in a better team. |
Yeah but I think their point is you could say that about any of the players who we have decided to let go. | |
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| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 16:09 - Jun 14 with 1778 views | itfc_bucks |
| Please don't sell Downes - he will thrive next season with better players on 15:29 - Jun 14 by ArnieM |
….. his weaknesses will be hidden in a better team. |
I think that's what I'm driving at. I see him in a similar vain to Jamma. You could play him in any midfield role and he'll "do a job".
You can't say that about Dozzer or Downes, who are a bit more limited, though better in their preferred roles than Nolan is in his.
In any case, if we started the season with none of the above, it'd be Downes I'd be most disappointed to lose. | | | |
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