| Amidst all this joy... on 21:14 - Jul 4 with 629 views | vapour_trail |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:12 - Jul 4 by Clapham_Junction |
If any country should know what happens if you defund the police, it's the UK since 2010. |
He’s literally voting for this. |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 with 614 views | 26_Paz |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:02 - Jul 4 by Mullet |
There is no global movement to "defund" the police. That is a very specific aim localised in America (not all of America either). How does that link to the English national side?
I notice you've graduated from slinking away when asked to that utterance above. Any chance of some depth, something substantial, something that isn't lazy racism and baiting for once? |
It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police.
For clarity, I don’t give two sh1ts if England players take the knee or not, I’m just trying to explain to some of you that the issue isn’t as cut and dry as some of you think. |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 with 626 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:14 - Jul 4 by vapour_trail |
He’s literally voting for this. |
Maybe Chico's right and the Tories really are Marxists. |  | | |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 with 625 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 20:21 - Jul 4 by jeera |
I'm getting more than a bit tired of this "I don't encounter it so it doesn't exist" crap.
I dare say Sudbury isn't exactly the world hub for ex BNP members nor is does it rate above 0.2% on the cosmopolitan scale so it's hardly surprising that most white people who live there never experience nor witness racism.
I am genuinely struggling to believe that people can be this small-minded to think that because something doesn't happen right in front of their own eyes must mean it doesn't happen anywhere else. |
Funny that, as I've never been accused of doping at the top level international sport, so we can add that to the list of things that don't exist 
Depressing a feck innit. Empathy is a dying art by the look of things.
I can only just about start to imagine what it's like to be judged by the colour of your skin, having been a novelty white man in places I've worked in the past. But that was just standing out; I wasn't disadvantaged in any way. God knows what it's like to experience barriers; it doesn't hurt the rest of us one bit to try and understand and support our fellow people. |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:16 - Jul 4 with 618 views | footers |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police.
For clarity, I don’t give two sh1ts if England players take the knee or not, I’m just trying to explain to some of you that the issue isn’t as cut and dry as some of you think. |
And you vote for another that actively does it. What is your point, Paz? |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:18 - Jul 4 with 610 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 20:46 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
I would imagine he is referring to the Marxist element of the BLM movement rather than the knee gesture in isolation.
How can one look like a c*ck? |
Good point Pazza. Please expand on how the millionaire footballers who've accrued their wealth through market forces are now all servants of marxism. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:18 - Jul 4 with 596 views | 26_Paz |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:08 - Jul 4 by lightuser |
I'm 100% sure that Marx's 19th century economic and poltical philosophies didnt mention de-funding the, at that time, very new Police Service?
Do you have any other views on Marxism, that worry you? |
Loads. As do the vast majority of people in society. That’s why the communist party doesn’t see much electoral success. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:19 - Jul 4 with 586 views | 26_Paz |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:18 - Jul 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Good point Pazza. Please expand on how the millionaire footballers who've accrued their wealth through market forces are now all servants of marxism. |
I don’t think I ever said they were, did I? | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:26 - Jul 4 with 570 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 20:59 - Jul 4 by Dyland |
"De-funding the police." What does that look like in reality?
Infowars bollix.
While we're here, the notion that pro football players are being suckered into a Marxist play is absurd.
Give your head a wobble mate. |
Abso-fkin-lutly. It's not about less money for tackling crime, it's about redistributing resources to areas that have the best chance of improving things. You obviously know this, but I'm reinforcing the basic message for the benefit of Pazz and others who haven't worked it out yet.
And in case pictures carry more weight, it's this below, but obviously we'd need to gear it to the UK.
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:27 - Jul 4 with 561 views | Mullet |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police.
For clarity, I don’t give two sh1ts if England players take the knee or not, I’m just trying to explain to some of you that the issue isn’t as cut and dry as some of you think. |
Can you provide any evidence to support that? That a single player, coach, or even staff at the FA have expressed that support explicitly or linked it to them taking a knee? |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:28 - Jul 4 with 560 views | eireblue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police.
For clarity, I don’t give two sh1ts if England players take the knee or not, I’m just trying to explain to some of you that the issue isn’t as cut and dry as some of you think. |
“… very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police…”
Where in the statements from Gareth did he say that?
“I think we have got a situation where some people think it's a political stand that they don't agree with - that's not the reason the players are doing it, we are supporting each other.”
Gareth Southgate
You seem to be the one that is mis-understanding or are ignorant of the message.
Maybe read up on what your players and manager have actually said.
Once better informed, you may have a better contribution to make to a tired debate you curiously still seem to be engaged in. |  | | |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:29 - Jul 4 with 560 views | noggin |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police.
For clarity, I don’t give two sh1ts if England players take the knee or not, I’m just trying to explain to some of you that the issue isn’t as cut and dry as some of you think. |
"It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police. "
Haven't several posters and the England players already explained this to you? |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:31 - Jul 4 with 550 views | noggin |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:27 - Jul 4 by Mullet |
Can you provide any evidence to support that? That a single player, coach, or even staff at the FA have expressed that support explicitly or linked it to them taking a knee? |
Some geezer in Sudbury said so. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:31 - Jul 4 with 552 views | Dyland |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:18 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
Loads. As do the vast majority of people in society. That’s why the communist party doesn’t see much electoral success. |
There are some elements of (post) Marxism that much of our socially conscientious electorate would agree with. Making it work is possible in a capitalist system, to boot. Don't need to tell you the obstacles, or the parties/politicians who are limpets to said obstacles... |  |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:43 - Jul 4 with 504 views | gtsb1966 |
| Amidst all this joy... on 20:37 - Jul 4 by vapour_trail |
But do you genuinely believe you’re as well placed to make that judgment, as the England squad who are choosing to make the gesture.
Do you actually believe that?
I’ve always found you a great guy on here, honest, genuine, and with integrity.
But I feel you have this one wrong. |
I obviously have it wrong in many people's book but I find taking the knee cringe worthy and I think it does more harm than good. The very fact that people boo it backs me up on that. |  | | |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:47 - Jul 4 with 495 views | vapour_trail |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:43 - Jul 4 by gtsb1966 |
I obviously have it wrong in many people's book but I find taking the knee cringe worthy and I think it does more harm than good. The very fact that people boo it backs me up on that. |
It really doesn’t.
The people that boo it are grade a cnts. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:47 - Jul 4 with 491 views | gtsb1966 |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:07 - Jul 4 by footers |
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Have you been here lately? | | | |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:47 - Jul 4 with 496 views | Mullet |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:43 - Jul 4 by gtsb1966 |
I obviously have it wrong in many people's book but I find taking the knee cringe worthy and I think it does more harm than good. The very fact that people boo it backs me up on that. |
No. Those that boo it do more harm than good. From creating a divide at games to their incessant bleating and victim complexes.
What does more harm is letting these racists win. Letting them think they can blame everyone and everything else when things don't go as they'd like. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:47 - Jul 4 with 494 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:15 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
It links to the English national side because they are very publicly supporting an organisation that openly states they wish to defund the police.
For clarity, I don’t give two sh1ts if England players take the knee or not, I’m just trying to explain to some of you that the issue isn’t as cut and dry as some of you think. |
That's bollox. Listen to the reasons given by the team as for why they're taking the knee. It's got nothing to do with overthrowing capitalism. They've not mentioned BLM or any perceived wider goals. Just listen.
Do yourself a favour Pazz. You're obviously wanting to look for what's 'true' and 'right'. Just apply a bit of common sense in this case and think why players who've been at the end of racist abuse are trying to take a stand against racist abuse, and are being supported by their teammates. Ignore the online a-holes with vested interests who want you to think it's because they're marxist (the players are multi-millionaires ffs!). Just think.
Racist abuse is a cancer, but also a useful tool that can be politicised and warped to suit certain interests. But it's very real, and England and several clubs have explicitly said they are taking the knee to protest against racism, nothing else. It's as simple as that. If you oppose or if you argue against you are going to be seen as a racist, or at best a racist sympathiser. Is that you? Are you a racist? I don't think you are. I think you've just been mislead, but it's up to you to prove me right.
I'm aware I'm coming across incredibly sanctimonious here, but ultimately you're ITFC so I think it's worth the effort to help you try to see you've been misled. Ultimately it's up to you though. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:50 - Jul 4 with 482 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:19 - Jul 4 by 26_Paz |
I don’t think I ever said they were, did I? |
You are literally arguing that the reason being taking the knee is some sort of marxist plot. Please think more about this. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:51 - Jul 4 with 480 views | footers |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:47 - Jul 4 by gtsb1966 |
Have you been here lately? |
Ah, so there's a black guy, those Indian fellas in the petrol station AND they've opened up a new Chinese. Got it, you're the rural Suffolk spokesman on diversity and not some weird old, white isolated plank. | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 21:52 - Jul 4 with 471 views | gtsb1966 |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:51 - Jul 4 by footers |
Ah, so there's a black guy, those Indian fellas in the petrol station AND they've opened up a new Chinese. Got it, you're the rural Suffolk spokesman on diversity and not some weird old, white isolated plank. |
That's a no then. | | | |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:56 - Jul 4 with 460 views | eireblue |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:43 - Jul 4 by gtsb1966 |
I obviously have it wrong in many people's book but I find taking the knee cringe worthy and I think it does more harm than good. The very fact that people boo it backs me up on that. |
So you mentioned anti-semitism earlier. Which has a clear definition.
There is also established that it is an abused minority that gets to define what is abusive.
E.g. White supremacists don’t get to tell Jewish people what is and isn’t anti-Semitic. Jewish people get to do that.
I don’t see how you can disagree with that, given that you yourself have referenced anti-semitism.
So let’s extrapolate, why, as a white older guy, do get to decide whether, how an abused minority, and supporters, get to act, is right or wrong.
Your evidence is that a minority in the crowd boo’ed?
A majority clapped.
Why do you think the minority opinion is more valid?
What harm is it actually doing, and too whom? | | | |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:57 - Jul 4 with 447 views | 26_Paz |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:50 - Jul 4 by Swansea_Blue |
You are literally arguing that the reason being taking the knee is some sort of marxist plot. Please think more about this. |
I wasn’t arguing that at all. I don’t care if players take the knee or not. I was just explaining what the MP had said | |
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| Amidst all this joy... on 22:00 - Jul 4 with 431 views | 26_Paz |
| Amidst all this joy... on 21:47 - Jul 4 by Swansea_Blue |
That's bollox. Listen to the reasons given by the team as for why they're taking the knee. It's got nothing to do with overthrowing capitalism. They've not mentioned BLM or any perceived wider goals. Just listen.
Do yourself a favour Pazz. You're obviously wanting to look for what's 'true' and 'right'. Just apply a bit of common sense in this case and think why players who've been at the end of racist abuse are trying to take a stand against racist abuse, and are being supported by their teammates. Ignore the online a-holes with vested interests who want you to think it's because they're marxist (the players are multi-millionaires ffs!). Just think.
Racist abuse is a cancer, but also a useful tool that can be politicised and warped to suit certain interests. But it's very real, and England and several clubs have explicitly said they are taking the knee to protest against racism, nothing else. It's as simple as that. If you oppose or if you argue against you are going to be seen as a racist, or at best a racist sympathiser. Is that you? Are you a racist? I don't think you are. I think you've just been mislead, but it's up to you to prove me right.
I'm aware I'm coming across incredibly sanctimonious here, but ultimately you're ITFC so I think it's worth the effort to help you try to see you've been misled. Ultimately it's up to you though. |
Are you suggesting I have somehow been brainwashed? | |
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