| According to the Economist on 10:37 - Jul 9 with 1801 views | chicoazul |
Didn’t know it’s pay walled.
iPsos Moro polling for The Economist shows some Brits support anti-covid restrictions *permanently*, regardless of covid risk. Inc:
- 19% for nighttime curfews
- 26% for closing casinos and clubs
- 35% for travel quarantine
- 40% for masks |  |
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| According to the Economist on 23:16 - Jul 9 with 1644 views | HARRY10 |
Reminder - Firefox browser has an add-on cunningly called bypass paywalls, which gives access to umpteen papers and periodicals that are behind paywalls
'BORIS JOHNSON can often channel John Bull, a ruddy cartoon figure from Georgian England. He personified the liberty-loving English yeoman, in opposition to Napoleonic tyranny. Announcing England’s first pandemic lockdown in March 2020, Mr Johnson lamented “taking away the ancient, inalienable right of free-born people of the United Kingdom to go to the pub”. Government behavioural scientists warned that Britons would defy even modest restrictions, and fretted about disorder and looting.
Bull. For 16 months Britons have complied dutifully and, for the most part, uncomplainingly. But on July 19th Mr Johnson will scrap nearly all the remaining anti-covid measures in England. Nightclubs will reopen, capacity caps will be lifted on restaurants and masks will no longer be mandatory. The tabloids have dubbed it “Freedom Day”. Conservative MPs are overjoyed; many Britons are not.
Polling by Ipsos MORI for The Economist suggests two-thirds think masks, social distancing and travel restrictions should continue for another month (see chart). A majority would support them until covid-19 is controlled worldwide, which may take years. Even more strikingly, a sizeable minority would like personal freedoms to be restricted permanently. A quarter say nightclubs and casinos should never reopen; almost two in ten would support an indefinite ban on leaving home after 10pm “without good reason”.
Some caution is hardly surprising. Cases are rising fast and may reach 100,000 a day, according to Sajid Javid, the health secretary. That would be nearly twice as many as at the peak of the winter wave. Sir Keir Starmer, the opposition leader, calls the removal of restrictions “reckless”.
Yet Britain’s exceptionally high vaccination rate will limit the rise in hospital admissions and deaths. Vaccination has driven covid-19’s fatality rate down from 0.8% of estimated infections to below 0.1%, the same as for seasonal flu. Unlocking now will mean the increase in covid-19 infections comes before winter, when flu picks up. Schools, where much transmission happens, are about to go on holiday.
Public willingness to sacrifice for the common good in a time of crisis has surprised ministers. One insider says he has changed his mind on whether Britons would volunteer for war: “I’d always assumed that if my generation was shown the Kitchener poster, they’d say: ‘No chance, mate’.” But the pandemic has also revealed John Bull’s authoritarian streak.
Many Britons did not go out dancing or drinking, or take overseas holidays, even before the pandemic. Nightclubs, casinos and dark streets harbour all sorts of wrongdoers. For some, it seems, endless lockdown is an acceptable price for everyone else staying home. â– |  | | |
| According to the Economist on 00:30 - Jul 10 with 1585 views | J2BLUE |
Nearly half? You mean 40% for masks which is common sense on public transport etc. I'd love to see where they got this sample. I bet a huge chunk of the 10pm curfew lot were pensioners |  |
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| According to the Economist on 06:13 - Jul 10 with 1501 views | bluelagos |
| According to the Economist on 00:30 - Jul 10 by J2BLUE |
Nearly half? You mean 40% for masks which is common sense on public transport etc. I'd love to see where they got this sample. I bet a huge chunk of the 10pm curfew lot were pensioners |
No doubt they were, but that is mental. 1 in 5 brits currently support a permanent 10 pm curfew and closure of nightclubs and casinos.
Demonstrates the hysterical fear / over reaction of a chunk of the population (sitting alone in a car fully masked...) who will no doubt be remaining indoors for an awful long time.
Appreciate the high risks of the proposed relaxing of rules and legitimate fears these are too soon and/or too much. But to permanently want a 10 pm curfew ffs?
Priti's cheer leaders no doubt. |  |
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| According to the Economist on 06:54 - Jul 10 with 1463 views | chicoazul |
| According to the Economist on 00:30 - Jul 10 by J2BLUE |
Nearly half? You mean 40% for masks which is common sense on public transport etc. I'd love to see where they got this sample. I bet a huge chunk of the 10pm curfew lot were pensioners |
40% is nearly half bubalah.
The question is, has the UK gone mad due to Covid or has it always been this way and I never noticed? | |
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| According to the Economist on 06:55 - Jul 10 with 1462 views | m14_blue |
That’s mad. | | | |
| According to the Economist on 07:01 - Jul 10 with 1453 views | chicoazul |
| According to the Economist on 23:16 - Jul 9 by HARRY10 |
Reminder - Firefox browser has an add-on cunningly called bypass paywalls, which gives access to umpteen papers and periodicals that are behind paywalls
'BORIS JOHNSON can often channel John Bull, a ruddy cartoon figure from Georgian England. He personified the liberty-loving English yeoman, in opposition to Napoleonic tyranny. Announcing England’s first pandemic lockdown in March 2020, Mr Johnson lamented “taking away the ancient, inalienable right of free-born people of the United Kingdom to go to the pub”. Government behavioural scientists warned that Britons would defy even modest restrictions, and fretted about disorder and looting.
Bull. For 16 months Britons have complied dutifully and, for the most part, uncomplainingly. But on July 19th Mr Johnson will scrap nearly all the remaining anti-covid measures in England. Nightclubs will reopen, capacity caps will be lifted on restaurants and masks will no longer be mandatory. The tabloids have dubbed it “Freedom Day”. Conservative MPs are overjoyed; many Britons are not.
Polling by Ipsos MORI for The Economist suggests two-thirds think masks, social distancing and travel restrictions should continue for another month (see chart). A majority would support them until covid-19 is controlled worldwide, which may take years. Even more strikingly, a sizeable minority would like personal freedoms to be restricted permanently. A quarter say nightclubs and casinos should never reopen; almost two in ten would support an indefinite ban on leaving home after 10pm “without good reason”.
Some caution is hardly surprising. Cases are rising fast and may reach 100,000 a day, according to Sajid Javid, the health secretary. That would be nearly twice as many as at the peak of the winter wave. Sir Keir Starmer, the opposition leader, calls the removal of restrictions “reckless”.
Yet Britain’s exceptionally high vaccination rate will limit the rise in hospital admissions and deaths. Vaccination has driven covid-19’s fatality rate down from 0.8% of estimated infections to below 0.1%, the same as for seasonal flu. Unlocking now will mean the increase in covid-19 infections comes before winter, when flu picks up. Schools, where much transmission happens, are about to go on holiday.
Public willingness to sacrifice for the common good in a time of crisis has surprised ministers. One insider says he has changed his mind on whether Britons would volunteer for war: “I’d always assumed that if my generation was shown the Kitchener poster, they’d say: ‘No chance, mate’.” But the pandemic has also revealed John Bull’s authoritarian streak.
Many Britons did not go out dancing or drinking, or take overseas holidays, even before the pandemic. Nightclubs, casinos and dark streets harbour all sorts of wrongdoers. For some, it seems, endless lockdown is an acceptable price for everyone else staying home. â– |
Not paying people for their labour is not very socialist of you Hazza. | |
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| According to the Economist on 07:03 - Jul 10 with 1439 views | 26_Paz |
| According to the Economist on 06:54 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
40% is nearly half bubalah.
The question is, has the UK gone mad due to Covid or has it always been this way and I never noticed? |
If the stats above are true then a sizeable percentage of the country had indeed gone completely and utterly insane. Putting aside the pros and cons from these restrictions during Covid to actually want them in a post pandemic world absolutely astounds me. I think this shows the impact this pandemic has had on people’s mental health. |  |
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| According to the Economist on 07:04 - Jul 10 with 1442 views | Steve_M |
People struggle with projecting time, either forwards or backwards, so take that into account and the face mask numbers are more reasonable.
Some people must have really hater night clubs when they were young though. |  |
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| According to the Economist on 07:13 - Jul 10 with 1428 views | chicoazul |
| According to the Economist on 07:03 - Jul 10 by 26_Paz |
If the stats above are true then a sizeable percentage of the country had indeed gone completely and utterly insane. Putting aside the pros and cons from these restrictions during Covid to actually want them in a post pandemic world absolutely astounds me. I think this shows the impact this pandemic has had on people’s mental health. |
We live in a hyper rational age where facts are more important than feelings. If there’s a tiny chance you may get covid on the bus and a tiny chance you may die from it or pass it on to someone, why wouldn’t you wear a mask? You’d be mad not to frankly, not to say anti-collective and selfish. And who needs to go out to a club or casino and enjoy themselves anyway?
That’s how many people think now. | |
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| According to the Economist on 07:13 - Jul 10 with 1427 views | Swansea_Blue |
| According to the Economist on 06:54 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
40% is nearly half bubalah.
The question is, has the UK gone mad due to Covid or has it always been this way and I never noticed? |
Lol. You haven't noticed. It hasn't gone mad on Covid (quite the opposite, as we are seeing with the proposed experiment on mass infections during a global pandemic). But it has introduced some of the most authoritarian Bills of any government in the UK in recent history. It's probably the most illiberal government we've ever had outside of war time, but our history buffs will be better placed to confirm that.
Still, 19% wanting permanent curfews is bonkers - as others have said, it would be very interesting to see how that survey chose it's respondents and how the questions were phrased. |  |
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| According to the Economist on 07:17 - Jul 10 with 1413 views | chicoazul |
| According to the Economist on 07:13 - Jul 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Lol. You haven't noticed. It hasn't gone mad on Covid (quite the opposite, as we are seeing with the proposed experiment on mass infections during a global pandemic). But it has introduced some of the most authoritarian Bills of any government in the UK in recent history. It's probably the most illiberal government we've ever had outside of war time, but our history buffs will be better placed to confirm that.
Still, 19% wanting permanent curfews is bonkers - as others have said, it would be very interesting to see how that survey chose it's respondents and how the questions were phrased. |
Whenever people on TWTD see a survey they can’t agree with or don’t understand they immediately jump to who did the survey, who did they survey, bet it’s a bunch of pensioners or stupid people.
I’m perfectly well aware of the authoritarian nature of this and many recent Uk governments. I just didn’t realise how many people in the Uk hate seeing other people enjoy themselves. | |
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| According to the Economist on 07:21 - Jul 10 with 1404 views | DanTheMan |
| According to the Economist on 07:13 - Jul 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Lol. You haven't noticed. It hasn't gone mad on Covid (quite the opposite, as we are seeing with the proposed experiment on mass infections during a global pandemic). But it has introduced some of the most authoritarian Bills of any government in the UK in recent history. It's probably the most illiberal government we've ever had outside of war time, but our history buffs will be better placed to confirm that.
Still, 19% wanting permanent curfews is bonkers - as others have said, it would be very interesting to see how that survey chose it's respondents and how the questions were phrased. |
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/majority-britons-support-extending-certai
PDF link on this page if you're interested. |  |
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| According to the Economist on 07:23 - Jul 10 with 1399 views | DanTheMan |
| According to the Economist on 07:17 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
Whenever people on TWTD see a survey they can’t agree with or don’t understand they immediately jump to who did the survey, who did they survey, bet it’s a bunch of pensioners or stupid people.
I’m perfectly well aware of the authoritarian nature of this and many recent Uk governments. I just didn’t realise how many people in the Uk hate seeing other people enjoy themselves. |
Questioning a source (which is often not provided by newspapers) is a valid thing to do.
I'm this case, I can't see much wrong with what they've asked, although I'd loved to have seen a demographic breakdown for the respondents. [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 7:24]
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| According to the Economist on 07:37 - Jul 10 with 1365 views | StokieBlue |
| According to the Economist on 06:54 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
40% is nearly half bubalah.
The question is, has the UK gone mad due to Covid or has it always been this way and I never noticed? |
It's not gone mad, people are being sensible for once and listening to the experts for a change.
Masks in places like public transport do work, it's not the 40% that are "mad" here.
Some of the others are strange though, don't disagree there.
SB [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 7:42]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| According to the Economist on 07:40 - Jul 10 with 1353 views | StokieBlue |
| According to the Economist on 07:13 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
We live in a hyper rational age where facts are more important than feelings. If there’s a tiny chance you may get covid on the bus and a tiny chance you may die from it or pass it on to someone, why wouldn’t you wear a mask? You’d be mad not to frankly, not to say anti-collective and selfish. And who needs to go out to a club or casino and enjoy themselves anyway?
That’s how many people think now. |
I can't believe you're complaining that facts are now important than feelings. It's a welcome change in mindset.
This is really weird stuff. Feelings produced Trump and popularism.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| According to the Economist on 07:41 - Jul 10 with 1350 views | GeoffSentence |
| According to the Economist on 07:13 - Jul 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Lol. You haven't noticed. It hasn't gone mad on Covid (quite the opposite, as we are seeing with the proposed experiment on mass infections during a global pandemic). But it has introduced some of the most authoritarian Bills of any government in the UK in recent history. It's probably the most illiberal government we've ever had outside of war time, but our history buffs will be better placed to confirm that.
Still, 19% wanting permanent curfews is bonkers - as others have said, it would be very interesting to see how that survey chose it's respondents and how the questions were phrased. |
It is probably because for some people in some ways life has been better under lockdown. I can see that curfews, for instance, would be a great boon for those who are troubled by loud, late night drunks. One man's harmless drunken high jinks are anothers nuisance. |  |
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| According to the Economist on 07:44 - Jul 10 with 1339 views | ArnieM |
I suppose the thing is people now have freedoms to choose what they do in public re COVID . Keep their distance , wear a mask , avoid crowded places …….or not ! |  |
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| According to the Economist on 07:46 - Jul 10 with 1333 views | chicoazul |
| According to the Economist on 07:40 - Jul 10 by StokieBlue |
I can't believe you're complaining that facts are now important than feelings. It's a welcome change in mindset.
This is really weird stuff. Feelings produced Trump and popularism.
SB |
Feelings also produced the Sistine Chapel the Parthenon and the St Matthew Passion. But you nicely reflect what I’m talking about. | |
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| According to the Economist on 07:53 - Jul 10 with 1320 views | StokieBlue |
| According to the Economist on 07:46 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
Feelings also produced the Sistine Chapel the Parthenon and the St Matthew Passion. But you nicely reflect what I’m talking about. |
Did they?
Or did art talent honed over years with technique and facts and then feelings produce it? The Parthenon would be impossible to build without pretty complex mathematics.
Using facts to make decisions isn't a bad thing and it's incredibly weird you think it is.
SB [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 7:54]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| According to the Economist on 08:03 - Jul 10 with 1285 views | chicoazul |
| According to the Economist on 07:53 - Jul 10 by StokieBlue |
Did they?
Or did art talent honed over years with technique and facts and then feelings produce it? The Parthenon would be impossible to build without pretty complex mathematics.
Using facts to make decisions isn't a bad thing and it's incredibly weird you think it is.
SB [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 7:54]
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I don’t think it’s weird Stokie, no. I do think that this teeth gnashing hyper rationality facts are more important than feelings paranoid irreligious risk averse culture embodied by you in particular on here is leading us to an ever more joyless bloodless society and I think it’s backed up by this survey in particular. It’s something I’ve been feeling for some time. | |
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| According to the Economist on 08:29 - Jul 10 with 1257 views | StokieBlue |
| According to the Economist on 08:03 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
I don’t think it’s weird Stokie, no. I do think that this teeth gnashing hyper rationality facts are more important than feelings paranoid irreligious risk averse culture embodied by you in particular on here is leading us to an ever more joyless bloodless society and I think it’s backed up by this survey in particular. It’s something I’ve been feeling for some time. |
Nice of you to single me out.
I fundamentally disagree though as you say. People making decisions based on feelings has enabled Trump, Orban, Tories and numerous genocides over the years.
Decisions based on feelings often are the enablers of discrimination.
Making important decisions using facts rather than feelings doesn't make the world joyless. Feelings have their own important place in the world.
I think the important word in your post is "irreligious" and that mindset change in the population is something you don't like.
I'm off to watch my son play football, a joyful experience in our ever changing society.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| According to the Economist on 09:21 - Jul 10 with 1168 views | pointofblue |
| According to the Economist on 06:13 - Jul 10 by bluelagos |
No doubt they were, but that is mental. 1 in 5 brits currently support a permanent 10 pm curfew and closure of nightclubs and casinos.
Demonstrates the hysterical fear / over reaction of a chunk of the population (sitting alone in a car fully masked...) who will no doubt be remaining indoors for an awful long time.
Appreciate the high risks of the proposed relaxing of rules and legitimate fears these are too soon and/or too much. But to permanently want a 10 pm curfew ffs?
Priti's cheer leaders no doubt. |
To be fair I’m guessing the 10pm curfew may be less to do with Covid and more to do the perception (considering where I work I should have an understanding of whether it’s accurate) that more crime happens at night.
I started off thinking the Government would re-install some restrictions, such as compulsory mask wearing, beyond 19th July but seemingly not - unless they’re going to leave it to the last minute in an attempt to avoid a backlash in the Sunday papers. | |
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| According to the Economist on 10:39 - Jul 10 with 1112 views | Swansea_Blue |
| According to the Economist on 07:17 - Jul 10 by chicoazul |
Whenever people on TWTD see a survey they can’t agree with or don’t understand they immediately jump to who did the survey, who did they survey, bet it’s a bunch of pensioners or stupid people.
I’m perfectly well aware of the authoritarian nature of this and many recent Uk governments. I just didn’t realise how many people in the Uk hate seeing other people enjoy themselves. |
It’s not just TWTD. It’s a fundamental of science to check sources and methodology. I’m not saying it’s wrong, just that it would be interesting to see how it was conducted. And it might give some insight into what sorts of people want to see draconian measures in normal times.
Edit - not meaning to come across as grumpy, and I broadly agree the wish to carry on some of these measures after Covid has gone away (when/if it ever does) seems incredible - quite an insight into some people's mindsets right now. There may be some value in retaining some measures at certain times; e.g. masks during the flu season, as the Asian countries have shown how effective they can be at reducing illness and death through the flu season. We're too selfish a nation to do that though. [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 11:12]
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| According to the Economist on 11:39 - Jul 10 with 1053 views | WD19 |
| According to the Economist on 00:30 - Jul 10 by J2BLUE |
Nearly half? You mean 40% for masks which is common sense on public transport etc. I'd love to see where they got this sample. I bet a huge chunk of the 10pm curfew lot were pensioners |
A nationally representative sample is exactly that.
So yes it will include pensioners. And dullards. |  | | |
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