| Why can't you blame him? 00:37 - Jul 12 with 4886 views | DinnernotTea |
Odd losers mentality that. Because the handbrake worked for 6 games, on the 7th game it had to come off. From 30th until 120th minute we were way off and his choice of subs and who was wrong. Like 2018 we take an early lead and management not good enough to react when we can't get the football.
Grealish should've been on 60 minutes or just before.
It's a weak stiff upper lip mentality saying "well at least we got to the final.'
Odd and bizarre penalty takers choice too.
I'm in the minority but thought Southgate got pretty much everything wrong tonight so yes he is to blame. |  |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:12 - Jul 12 with 2850 views | pointofblue |
The difference between Mancini and Southgate - one is a good manager and one is a great manager. | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:19 - Jul 12 with 2832 views | Wacko |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:12 - Jul 12 by pointofblue |
The difference between Mancini and Southgate - one is a good manager and one is a great manager. |
We talk about the work Southgate has done but Mancini has done far more in far shorter period and far less talented a squad | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:21 - Jul 12 with 2819 views | pointofblue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:19 - Jul 12 by Wacko |
We talk about the work Southgate has done but Mancini has done far more in far shorter period and far less talented a squad |
I’ve upped voted but I guess I would argue their central midfield is stronger than ours and that’s what won it in the end. | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:35 - Jul 12 with 2794 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:12 - Jul 12 by pointofblue |
The difference between Mancini and Southgate - one is a good manager and one is a great manager. |
If Mancini was such a great Manager he would have won the Champions league at least once. He is good but definitely not a great manager.
For all Gareth Southgate's weaknesses he is the 2nd most successful England Manager of all time. More successful than Robson! | | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:37 - Jul 12 with 2792 views | pointofblue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:35 - Jul 12 by Enigma_Blue |
If Mancini was such a great Manager he would have won the Champions league at least once. He is good but definitely not a great manager.
For all Gareth Southgate's weaknesses he is the 2nd most successful England Manager of all time. More successful than Robson! |
Would argue Southgate has a better pool of players to choose from than Robson - would like to have seen what Sir Bobby would do with this bunch. | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:43 - Jul 12 with 2774 views | Wacko |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:35 - Jul 12 by Enigma_Blue |
If Mancini was such a great Manager he would have won the Champions league at least once. He is good but definitely not a great manager.
For all Gareth Southgate's weaknesses he is the 2nd most successful England Manager of all time. More successful than Robson! |
I don't think you can compare national or club management, nor can you really compare eras.
Plus as has been said before, we've had the two easiest routes to the final in living memory | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:50 - Jul 12 with 2762 views | Wacko |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:21 - Jul 12 by pointofblue |
I’ve upped voted but I guess I would argue their central midfield is stronger than ours and that’s what won it in the end. |
Yes you're probably right. I'm intrigued as to what would've happened if Southgate had played to our strengths more, i.e. more focus on attack since we definitely had one of the best offensive squads | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 01:58 - Jul 12 with 2742 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:43 - Jul 12 by Wacko |
I don't think you can compare national or club management, nor can you really compare eras.
Plus as has been said before, we've had the two easiest routes to the final in living memory |
And yet we still went a lot further than Portugal and Germany. | | | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 02:03 - Jul 12 with 2728 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:43 - Jul 12 by Wacko |
I don't think you can compare national or club management, nor can you really compare eras.
Plus as has been said before, we've had the two easiest routes to the final in living memory |
Of course you can, also I should point out that Mancini had by far the biggest budget out of the top teams when he was at city and he did even come close to winning the Champions League. He has done well in this tournament but to say he is a 'great manager' is laughable.
Perhaps Mancini had got better over the years with experience, so no reason why Southgate can't improve as a manager either. [Post edited 12 Jul 2021 2:05]
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| Why can't you blame him? on 02:04 - Jul 12 with 2724 views | Wacko |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:58 - Jul 12 by Enigma_Blue |
And yet we still went a lot further than Portugal and Germany. |
Panama did better than Italy in the last World Cup, what's your point? | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 02:12 - Jul 12 with 2702 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 02:04 - Jul 12 by Wacko |
Panama did better than Italy in the last World Cup, what's your point? |
I would have thought my point is obvious, that there are no easy games in major tournaments these days, pretty much anybody can beat anybody. You can only beat what's out in front of you anyway. It wasn't all that long ago that England couldn't even beat teams they were supposed to beat, remember Iceland? Or even qualify for major tournaments, USA 94, Euro 08! At least this England Team beats who they should and can actually make it deep into tournaments. Also over 120 minutes we haven't actually lost to anybody in this tournament.
Jeez even when England have a relatively successful team and manager some people can't even take pride in that. [Post edited 12 Jul 2021 2:14]
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| Why can't you blame him? on 08:04 - Jul 12 with 2364 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:35 - Jul 12 by Enigma_Blue |
If Mancini was such a great Manager he would have won the Champions league at least once. He is good but definitely not a great manager.
For all Gareth Southgate's weaknesses he is the 2nd most successful England Manager of all time. More successful than Robson! |
He's still just an England manager who's won nothing though...since the last World Cup, have England genuinely improved given the better tracking talent we now have? Defensively yes, more by playing two defensive midfielders and like lat night playing 8 defensive players at times. Offensively no, because of playing two defensive midfielders who are so limited creatively. Tactically perhaps...it's debatable. He has learned how not to lose games, but he hasn't as yet learnt how to blend the talent into as potent an attacking unit as we could be. He's still way too cautious, the Italians freshened things up in normal time and for ET to try and win it, and we just plodded on seemingly content with penalties. Southgate has improved England off the field no question, but on the field where it counts we're still under performing imo... |  | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:06 - Jul 12 with 2355 views | Bluefields |
| Why can't you blame him? on 01:37 - Jul 12 by pointofblue |
Would argue Southgate has a better pool of players to choose from than Robson - would like to have seen what Sir Bobby would do with this bunch. |
1990 had better quality than the current squad. Lineker Waddle Beardsley Barnes Gascoigne Platt all better offensively than what we currently have. | | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:07 - Jul 12 with 2353 views | Vic |
Sure, there were things we should have done differently. But as I watched it I thought Italy were by far the best team we have played this tournament. We lost to a better team. |  |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 08:15 - Jul 12 with 2285 views | JammyDodgerrr |
A frustrating watch, last night and it didn't need to be. Southgates unwillingness to be proactive is what cost us last night, we decided to settle for the 1-0 around 30 minutes in and that allowed Italy back in, when they were there for the taking. Can't believe we just sat on our hands until Italy scored and then we make a change.
The changes were baffling too, bring Grealish on, and then we shift Saka to the 10 instead of Grealish who plays there normally? Getting to the final is obviously an achievement, but the same issue lost us the semi-final at the last world cup, and lost us last night. |  |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 08:23 - Jul 12 with 2271 views | Guthrum |
That was how the Spaniards tried to play against Italy and they didn't even get to penalties. Grealish played for 20 minutes and was unable to break through the Italians, why would that have been any different at the hour mark? I'm not a fan of messing about with penalties, the stuttering runs and soft shots, but everyone in the Prem does that now. As someone pointed out in commentary, those senior players who were not picked all have poor recent records with taking penalties.
In addition, entirely changing the playing style and philosophy for the highest pressure match of all is something much more likely to go wrong than sticking with what has gone well for most of the tournament, the routines that they were drilled in.
Thirdly, I disagree that celebrating getting to the final of a major tournament for the first time in 55 years can be seen as 'weak' or defeatist. Sure, it's not the crowning achievement of winning it, but England are, for once in my lifetime, the second best team in Europe - and only by the narrowest margin of a penalty shoot-out.
Sure, Southgate's performance last night was not his best from the dugout, but over the whole tournament he has outdone most of his peers - and all but one predecessors, too. If Italy had scored first, then we equalised but still lost on penalties, I think many people's perspective would be different. |  |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 08:30 - Jul 12 with 2225 views | TractorCam |
| Why can't you blame him? on 02:12 - Jul 12 by Enigma_Blue |
I would have thought my point is obvious, that there are no easy games in major tournaments these days, pretty much anybody can beat anybody. You can only beat what's out in front of you anyway. It wasn't all that long ago that England couldn't even beat teams they were supposed to beat, remember Iceland? Or even qualify for major tournaments, USA 94, Euro 08! At least this England Team beats who they should and can actually make it deep into tournaments. Also over 120 minutes we haven't actually lost to anybody in this tournament.
Jeez even when England have a relatively successful team and manager some people can't even take pride in that. [Post edited 12 Jul 2021 2:14]
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Amazing, first final in 55 years and people are quickly finding holes to point at Southgate. Yes he got things wrong last night but of course he's now being dubbed a fraud again.
Best manager in years, I mean the last ones were Hodgson and Big Sam! This group of players under this manager is our best chance of success going into Qatar. |  |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 08:40 - Jul 12 with 2163 views | BloomBlue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:15 - Jul 12 by JammyDodgerrr |
A frustrating watch, last night and it didn't need to be. Southgates unwillingness to be proactive is what cost us last night, we decided to settle for the 1-0 around 30 minutes in and that allowed Italy back in, when they were there for the taking. Can't believe we just sat on our hands until Italy scored and then we make a change.
The changes were baffling too, bring Grealish on, and then we shift Saka to the 10 instead of Grealish who plays there normally? Getting to the final is obviously an achievement, but the same issue lost us the semi-final at the last world cup, and lost us last night. |
But a lot of that is the pressure of winning after not winning since 66. Spain had similar issues before eventually becoming winners it is a gradual process. Southgate got us to a final something no other England manager has achieved since Sir Alf and I would argue some of those managers had better players to work with than Southgate.
I've no problem with people having opinions that Southgate could have done things differently but England were all over Italy to start with and it was only Italy's experienced defence that kept it at 1-0. In the 2nd half we didn't hold the ball up enough but happens you dont get to a final and expect an easy ride but again I think that's the pressure.
I think Southgate has done great, as I said better than any previous England manager since Sir Alf |  | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:45 - Jul 12 with 2128 views | Churchman |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:07 - Jul 12 by Vic |
Sure, there were things we should have done differently. But as I watched it I thought Italy were by far the best team we have played this tournament. We lost to a better team. |
You are right Vic, Italy were the best team in the tournament and fully deserved to win it. However, 35% possession, 2 shots on goal at home by England was awful. We should have done better.
Had we had a go and lost, that’s far more acceptable to me than what I watched. If you play ‘park the bus’ for much of the game, two things happen. Your players get worn out and if the opposition score, it’s almost impossible to change the flow of the game.
As for Southgate, he was poor last night, particularly his use of subs. The game was drifting away before half time and we got deeper and deeper. He did nothing about it and Italy scoring was inevitable. He should have been braver.
Well done Italy though - smashing team and must be well up there to win the next World Cup. |  | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:51 - Jul 12 with 2084 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
In the end, a little bit more experience and composure won it for Italy.
England players and Gareth Southgate have done the nation proud and being a relatively young squad will get even better.
At last, we have learned how to play tournament football against the very best international teams.
Well played Italy.
Well played England. |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 09:00 - Jul 12 with 2056 views | pointofblue |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:23 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
That was how the Spaniards tried to play against Italy and they didn't even get to penalties. Grealish played for 20 minutes and was unable to break through the Italians, why would that have been any different at the hour mark? I'm not a fan of messing about with penalties, the stuttering runs and soft shots, but everyone in the Prem does that now. As someone pointed out in commentary, those senior players who were not picked all have poor recent records with taking penalties.
In addition, entirely changing the playing style and philosophy for the highest pressure match of all is something much more likely to go wrong than sticking with what has gone well for most of the tournament, the routines that they were drilled in.
Thirdly, I disagree that celebrating getting to the final of a major tournament for the first time in 55 years can be seen as 'weak' or defeatist. Sure, it's not the crowning achievement of winning it, but England are, for once in my lifetime, the second best team in Europe - and only by the narrowest margin of a penalty shoot-out.
Sure, Southgate's performance last night was not his best from the dugout, but over the whole tournament he has outdone most of his peers - and all but one predecessors, too. If Italy had scored first, then we equalised but still lost on penalties, I think many people's perspective would be different. |
It’s not the losing on the penalties that’s the problem - that happens. It’s the utter and complete inept performance of the second half, and Southgate’s lack of action to try and remedy it. | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 09:09 - Jul 12 with 1981 views | OsborneOneNil |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:45 - Jul 12 by Churchman |
You are right Vic, Italy were the best team in the tournament and fully deserved to win it. However, 35% possession, 2 shots on goal at home by England was awful. We should have done better.
Had we had a go and lost, that’s far more acceptable to me than what I watched. If you play ‘park the bus’ for much of the game, two things happen. Your players get worn out and if the opposition score, it’s almost impossible to change the flow of the game.
As for Southgate, he was poor last night, particularly his use of subs. The game was drifting away before half time and we got deeper and deeper. He did nothing about it and Italy scoring was inevitable. He should have been braver.
Well done Italy though - smashing team and must be well up there to win the next World Cup. |
Yep, spot on. |  | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 09:09 - Jul 12 with 1985 views | Churchman |
| Why can't you blame him? on 08:23 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
That was how the Spaniards tried to play against Italy and they didn't even get to penalties. Grealish played for 20 minutes and was unable to break through the Italians, why would that have been any different at the hour mark? I'm not a fan of messing about with penalties, the stuttering runs and soft shots, but everyone in the Prem does that now. As someone pointed out in commentary, those senior players who were not picked all have poor recent records with taking penalties.
In addition, entirely changing the playing style and philosophy for the highest pressure match of all is something much more likely to go wrong than sticking with what has gone well for most of the tournament, the routines that they were drilled in.
Thirdly, I disagree that celebrating getting to the final of a major tournament for the first time in 55 years can be seen as 'weak' or defeatist. Sure, it's not the crowning achievement of winning it, but England are, for once in my lifetime, the second best team in Europe - and only by the narrowest margin of a penalty shoot-out.
Sure, Southgate's performance last night was not his best from the dugout, but over the whole tournament he has outdone most of his peers - and all but one predecessors, too. If Italy had scored first, then we equalised but still lost on penalties, I think many people's perspective would be different. |
Spain lost on penalties. They competed with Italy and no by would have complained had they won. For me, it wasn’t so much about changing the playing style, but trying to play further up the pitch. To do that, we needed to change something.
Getting to a final is fine, especially when your team doesn’t have the quality of the best teams, but failing in a final is no real achievement for the likes of Italy, Spain, Germany and France. It shouldn’t be for us either, in my view.
The penalty thing is interesting. Well done the players that stood up to take one. I’d have been in hiding! The best penalty takers that stick in my mind are John Wark and Ray Stewart. They rarely if ever missed and had the policy of pick your spot and thump it hard - as Kane and Maguire did last night. I’ve always liked that. However, as you say, the faffing about is pretty much the default now. | | | |
| Why can't you blame him? on 09:26 - Jul 12 with 1921 views | Guthrum |
| Why can't you blame him? on 09:09 - Jul 12 by Churchman |
Spain lost on penalties. They competed with Italy and no by would have complained had they won. For me, it wasn’t so much about changing the playing style, but trying to play further up the pitch. To do that, we needed to change something.
Getting to a final is fine, especially when your team doesn’t have the quality of the best teams, but failing in a final is no real achievement for the likes of Italy, Spain, Germany and France. It shouldn’t be for us either, in my view.
The penalty thing is interesting. Well done the players that stood up to take one. I’d have been in hiding! The best penalty takers that stick in my mind are John Wark and Ray Stewart. They rarely if ever missed and had the policy of pick your spot and thump it hard - as Kane and Maguire did last night. I’ve always liked that. However, as you say, the faffing about is pretty much the default now. |
Yes, of course they did, I misremembered.
As I said in another thread, we need to emulate those teams in regularly getting to finals, not seeing it as a once-in-a-lifetime chance which we have to capitalise on, or wait another few decades. That, for me, is the most encouraging thing about Southgate's tenure so far. We have reached semi finals and better in successive major tournaments. | |
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| Why can't you blame him? on 09:29 - Jul 12 with 1900 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Sad individual. |  |
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