| "Illegal immigrants" 09:10 - Jul 21 with 18553 views | noggin |
It really pisses me off that so many news sources label these human beings as criminals. The criminals are the people smugglers and the politicians. Is it any wonder the public have such a xenophobic attitude to these poor people. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 9:14]
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:50 - Jul 21 with 1636 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:47 - Jul 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
To be fair, it is almost certainly technically accurate. They would not be entering the country legally by that means.
That said, the language chosen is important and a more compassionate rhetoric generally would be good. I think that is the point you are trying to make. |
Exactly the point I'm making. Thank you. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:51 - Jul 21 with 1634 views | mrshallisfit |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 11:21 - Jul 21 by Pinewoodblue |
It’s OK to be a legal alien, if you’re an Englishman in New York. |
But....Its no fun being an illegal alien. As Phil Collins once said. |  | | |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:51 - Jul 21 with 1634 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:49 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
"these are generally some of the most desperate and badly treated people in the world"
in terms of those who gain asylum that is by definition true. in terms of 'economic migrants' i'd be interested in the evidence. they seem often to be young men with access to the resources to travel and pay traffickers. they may be more economically advantaged than those who can't travel in that way. |
Wow! Really?
They are risking their lives on those dinghies because they are rich?!
Wow! Just wow!
You ought to look at the way those who really are rich actually play the system and keep the oppressed in their place. (EDIT: minor error in hitting wrong key.) [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 12:54]
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:51 - Jul 21 with 1632 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:49 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
"these are generally some of the most desperate and badly treated people in the world"
in terms of those who gain asylum that is by definition true. in terms of 'economic migrants' i'd be interested in the evidence. they seem often to be young men with access to the resources to travel and pay traffickers. they may be more economically advantaged than those who can't travel in that way. |
Well they're not coming for the 38 quid a week they receive while their case is reviewed, which can be years. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:53 - Jul 21 with 1618 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:51 - Jul 21 by noggin |
Well they're not coming for the 38 quid a week they receive while their case is reviewed, which can be years. |
He's talking about economic migrants now (who I am not certain take that route of entry anyway).
Fruit and veg pickers to you and me, btw.
EDIT: Or rich scroungers come to pinch our jobs to Lowhouse. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 12:53]
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:54 - Jul 21 with 1604 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:49 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
"these are generally some of the most desperate and badly treated people in the world"
in terms of those who gain asylum that is by definition true. in terms of 'economic migrants' i'd be interested in the evidence. they seem often to be young men with access to the resources to travel and pay traffickers. they may be more economically advantaged than those who can't travel in that way. |
Out of interest, where does desperate become not desperate and just playing the system? Is there a level of wealth required? | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:57 - Jul 21 with 1582 views | Vic |
Who are the ‘illegal immigrants’ you referring too?
If they are asylum seekers they are not illegal.
If they are simply living here illegally and not going through the proper system then they are illegal.
I think sometimes the media uses the wrong labels. |  |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:02 - Jul 21 with 1557 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:51 - Jul 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Wow! Really?
They are risking their lives on those dinghies because they are rich?!
Wow! Just wow!
You ought to look at the way those who really are rich actually play the system and keep the oppressed in their place. (EDIT: minor error in hitting wrong key.) [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 12:54]
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where did i say they were rich? i was challenging your assertion that those who qualify for asylum and those who don't are indivisible.
i would be interested if you have any evidence that, other than asylum seekers, the people who chose to migrate in this way are amongst the most disadvantaged in their home society. genuine question. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:03]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:05 - Jul 21 with 1535 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:02 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
where did i say they were rich? i was challenging your assertion that those who qualify for asylum and those who don't are indivisible.
i would be interested if you have any evidence that, other than asylum seekers, the people who chose to migrate in this way are amongst the most disadvantaged in their home society. genuine question. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:03]
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Good luck to you surveying illegal immigrants to find that answer.
Genuine question - do you think those who are risking their lives are doing so simply to earn more money and not because their current lot is desperate?
EDIT: Also consider why many do not seek asylum. Look at the conditions imposed and the outcome should they fail in their bid. Maybe many who have a valid case for asylum choose not to apply because the alternative living as an illegal is preferable in their eyes. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:06]
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:09 - Jul 21 with 1516 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:05 - Jul 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Good luck to you surveying illegal immigrants to find that answer.
Genuine question - do you think those who are risking their lives are doing so simply to earn more money and not because their current lot is desperate?
EDIT: Also consider why many do not seek asylum. Look at the conditions imposed and the outcome should they fail in their bid. Maybe many who have a valid case for asylum choose not to apply because the alternative living as an illegal is preferable in their eyes. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:06]
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there's lots of evidence that some of them are economic migrants and taking those risks because they expect to be economically better off in their destination country. the demographics of those travelling in this way - very often male, young, better educated etc - and the resources required to travel and pay traffickers, suggest that often they are not the most disadvantaged in their home society. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:10 - Jul 21 with 1506 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:09 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
there's lots of evidence that some of them are economic migrants and taking those risks because they expect to be economically better off in their destination country. the demographics of those travelling in this way - very often male, young, better educated etc - and the resources required to travel and pay traffickers, suggest that often they are not the most disadvantaged in their home society. |
Please link your evidence.
Age and gender and your own imposition of what that means are not evidence btw. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:21 - Jul 21 with 1476 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:02 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
where did i say they were rich? i was challenging your assertion that those who qualify for asylum and those who don't are indivisible.
i would be interested if you have any evidence that, other than asylum seekers, the people who chose to migrate in this way are amongst the most disadvantaged in their home society. genuine question. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:03]
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Just because there are poorer people, doesn't mean they are not desperate, for whatever reason. They are human beings and should be treated as such.
Illegal immigrants get nothing from the state and so are hardly a huge burden on society. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:23 - Jul 21 with 1464 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:09 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
there's lots of evidence that some of them are economic migrants and taking those risks because they expect to be economically better off in their destination country. the demographics of those travelling in this way - very often male, young, better educated etc - and the resources required to travel and pay traffickers, suggest that often they are not the most disadvantaged in their home society. |
Define 'economic migrant' and show us evidence of the negative effect they have on the UK tax payer. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:34 - Jul 21 with 1436 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:10 - Jul 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Please link your evidence.
Age and gender and your own imposition of what that means are not evidence btw. |
for example. https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article/25/1/tay040/5056445
"The stereotype of the illiterate, poor and rural migrant reaching the borders of affluent countries has to be abandoned. The poorest people simply do not have the means to escape war and poverty and remain trapped in their country or in the neighbouring one." | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:37 - Jul 21 with 1425 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:34 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
for example. https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article/25/1/tay040/5056445
"The stereotype of the illiterate, poor and rural migrant reaching the borders of affluent countries has to be abandoned. The poorest people simply do not have the means to escape war and poverty and remain trapped in their country or in the neighbouring one." |
"The poorest people simply do not have the means to escape war and poverty and remain trapped in their country or in the neighbouring one.""
Nobody is denying that. Maybe the UK should fulfil it's duty and take many more from those neighbouring countries, where they're often treated terribly.
I was talking with a Lebanese fella at the gym today. He's been in Norway for years but his brother is a soldier in Lebanon. 6 months ago, his wage as a soldier was about $1400 a month. Now it is worth $70. Yesterday he queued for hours to buy a loaf of bread, not knowing whether he'd get one. 6 months ago this man was middle class, today he and many others are desperately poor. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:52]
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:39 - Jul 21 with 1414 views | noggin |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:34 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
for example. https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article/25/1/tay040/5056445
"The stereotype of the illiterate, poor and rural migrant reaching the borders of affluent countries has to be abandoned. The poorest people simply do not have the means to escape war and poverty and remain trapped in their country or in the neighbouring one." |
I'm not sure what "illiterate and rural" have to do with anything. Many Syrians and Iraqis are very well educated. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:51 - Jul 21 with 1387 views | noggin |
Stolen from Facebook.
If we trained every migrant who's crossed The Channel in the last 2 years to drive a lorry, we'd only be about 50,000 short of what's needed post brexit. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:52 - Jul 21 with 1385 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 13:34 - Jul 21 by lowhouseblue |
for example. https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article/25/1/tay040/5056445
"The stereotype of the illiterate, poor and rural migrant reaching the borders of affluent countries has to be abandoned. The poorest people simply do not have the means to escape war and poverty and remain trapped in their country or in the neighbouring one." |
Ah, so you are now arguing that they are comparatively rich?
My argument is that they are desperate and oppressed. Your quote does nothing to detract from that argument. They are also clearly not affluent enough to enter the country through safer means.
I never said they were illiterate or rural. In terms of our society they will be poor. Albeit that many of the poorest in our society are rich by the standards of much of the world. | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:09 - Jul 21 with 1260 views | factual_blue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:25 - Jul 21 by azuremerlangus |
So these people seeking asylum are all French? |
As I've said before, I'm very proud of the fact that my country is seen globally as a safe haven.
And I, and I daresay you, are relieved we don't live in a country from which we have to flee or die.
If either of us did, we'd do what they're doing.
And, if you'd ever encountered an asylum seeker and heard their stories, you wouldn't think like you do. Some people who worked for me some years ago in Ipswich had to deal with Kosovan refugees. Their stories were traumatic to hear (and my team were trained to spot any BS, so it wasn't made up).
(I use 'think' here in the loosest possible sense of course).
Count yourself lucky. |  |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:13 - Jul 21 with 1247 views | factual_blue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 12:21 - Jul 21 by Digger77 |
That's 3 years old. |
There were 32,423 asylum applications (main applicants only) in the UK in the year ending June 2020, similar to the previous year, and lower than the recent peak in year ending June 2016 (36,546), although that figure will have been impacted by the measures taken in response to COVID-19 in the latest quarter.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-june
(Scroll down to Section 2 - Asylum applications) | |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 with 1215 views | Lord_Lucan |
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria. |  |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:56 - Jul 21 with 1180 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan |
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria. |
*sees immigrant thread*
* sees last comment Lord Lucan*
*looks*
*isn't disappointed*
Not sure how good the official channels are mind you. |  |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:56 - Jul 21 with 1180 views | WeWereZombies |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan |
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria. |
'and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.'
Not before they paid the people trafiickers they weren't, no... |  |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 21:25 - Jul 21 with 1140 views | vapour_trail |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan |
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria. |
The majority of the people landing in Kent are younger blokes, for sure.
This seems to be a hobby horse for (not you, btw) a section of people who want to downplay their experiences. I live right on the English Channel and I wouldn’t cross that stretch of water in a dinghy, it’s a ludicrous proposition. And to be clear, plenty of women and children are also making the crossing this week.
You’ve got to pay for the crossing, so yes they have resources. You’ve also got to have some high degree of desperation about you. You’re going to get holed up somewhere, potentially for months, like Napier Barracks, which was declared unfit for human habitation years before Patel assigned it to asylum seekers.
Arguments about housing etc are not relevant here. It’s fck all people in total, particularly when you look at the numbers leaving the country back to Europe. This is diversions from an administration who want to ostracise and place blame on these victims of circumstance, because they know the people lapping this rubbish up will mostly vote for them.
As i said, it’s into my community these people are arriving, I’m supporting any local organisations working to help them out and fronting up when the right wing nut jobs appear in town to make their presence felt. |  |
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| "Illegal immigrants" on 21:40 - Jul 21 with 1108 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan |
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria. |
Noggin has already said “I'm talking about the labelling of people arriving in small boats and then seeking asylum“. So they can’t be illegal. Asylum seekers have a legal right to claim asylum. |  |
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