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It really pisses me off that so many news sources label these human beings as criminals. The criminals are the people smugglers and the politicians. Is it any wonder the public have such a xenophobic attitude to these poor people.
"Illegal immigrants" on 21:25 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail
The majority of the people landing in Kent are younger blokes, for sure.
This seems to be a hobby horse for (not you, btw) a section of people who want to downplay their experiences. I live right on the English Channel and I wouldn’t cross that stretch of water in a dinghy, it’s a ludicrous proposition. And to be clear, plenty of women and children are also making the crossing this week.
You’ve got to pay for the crossing, so yes they have resources. You’ve also got to have some high degree of desperation about you. You’re going to get holed up somewhere, potentially for months, like Napier Barracks, which was declared unfit for human habitation years before Patel assigned it to asylum seekers.
Arguments about housing etc are not relevant here. It’s fck all people in total, particularly when you look at the numbers leaving the country back to Europe. This is diversions from an administration who want to ostracise and place blame on these victims of circumstance, because they know the people lapping this rubbish up will mostly vote for them.
As i said, it’s into my community these people are arriving, I’m supporting any local organisations working to help them out and fronting up when the right wing nut jobs appear in town to make their presence felt.
I'm sorry Vapes but I simply disagree with you.
I admire your support of local organisations and helping people out, I really do. But the whole thing is crazy, it doesn't make any sense.
The one reason I understand is that these people maybe speak English rather than French or German so they want to come to UK, but let's say you had a three year old child and you had made it to France. Would you A/ Decide to stay put and let your three year old learn French and settle down there, or B / Risk their life?
Doesn't add up to me Vapes. As I said, I'm pro immigration etc etc but this whole thing is madness. It's crazy.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 21:44]
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
"Illegal immigrants" on 20:13 - Jul 21 by factual_blue
There were 32,423 asylum applications (main applicants only) in the UK in the year ending June 2020, similar to the previous year, and lower than the recent peak in year ending June 2016 (36,546), although that figure will have been impacted by the measures taken in response to COVID-19 in the latest quarter.
Anyone who’s been following this will know our asylum overhaul is in a mess, with our government being highly criticised by humanitarian agencies and as likely to be law breaking as some of the migrants.
"Illegal immigrants" on 13:05 - Jul 21 by Nthsuffolkblue
Good luck to you surveying illegal immigrants to find that answer.
Genuine question - do you think those who are risking their lives are doing so simply to earn more money and not because their current lot is desperate?
EDIT: Also consider why many do not seek asylum. Look at the conditions imposed and the outcome should they fail in their bid. Maybe many who have a valid case for asylum choose not to apply because the alternative living as an illegal is preferable in their eyes.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 13:06]
People swim that channel.. and France is hardly war torn.. just saying.
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"Illegal immigrants" on 22:09 - Jul 21 with 1033 views
People swim that channel.. and France is hardly war torn.. just saying.
To be honest I think that's a bit flippant. The people that swim the channel are highly trained athletes and they can only swim it under certain conditions, plus they are always accompanied by a serviceable boat - and many don't succeed anyway.
I am more interested in what happens to these motorised dinghys. I went to look at one a few years back and they cost a fortune. What happens to the things after everyone has made it to the beach? I mean, can one just hang about at Dover and claim one once everyone has alighted?
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
"Illegal immigrants" on 21:40 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan
I'm sorry Vapes but I simply disagree with you.
I admire your support of local organisations and helping people out, I really do. But the whole thing is crazy, it doesn't make any sense.
The one reason I understand is that these people maybe speak English rather than French or German so they want to come to UK, but let's say you had a three year old child and you had made it to France. Would you A/ Decide to stay put and let your three year old learn French and settle down there, or B / Risk their life?
Doesn't add up to me Vapes. As I said, I'm pro immigration etc etc but this whole thing is madness. It's crazy.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 21:44]
I’m with you lucan, happy to see us taking in asylum seekers but we don’t know who’s coming through on those boats, it needs to be done properly, and if I had fled a war torn country, I’d be happy with waiting it out. Rather than paying out what money I do have to criminals and risking my life and my families lives.
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"Illegal immigrants" on 22:12 - Jul 21 with 1012 views
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:09 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan
To be honest I think that's a bit flippant. The people that swim the channel are highly trained athletes and they can only swim it under certain conditions, plus they are always accompanied by a serviceable boat - and many don't succeed anyway.
I am more interested in what happens to these motorised dinghys. I went to look at one a few years back and they cost a fortune. What happens to the things after everyone has made it to the beach? I mean, can one just hang about at Dover and claim one once everyone has alighted?
Didn’t David walliams swim it?
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"Illegal immigrants" on 22:17 - Jul 21 with 1002 views
"Illegal immigrants" on 21:40 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan
I'm sorry Vapes but I simply disagree with you.
I admire your support of local organisations and helping people out, I really do. But the whole thing is crazy, it doesn't make any sense.
The one reason I understand is that these people maybe speak English rather than French or German so they want to come to UK, but let's say you had a three year old child and you had made it to France. Would you A/ Decide to stay put and let your three year old learn French and settle down there, or B / Risk their life?
Doesn't add up to me Vapes. As I said, I'm pro immigration etc etc but this whole thing is madness. It's crazy.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 21:44]
Yeah I know you’ve always been open minded.
Who knows until you wear those shoes. We know some people have families and connections here already.
It’s not like this is the first choice destiny for most.
The narrative though that is pushed out there by this government, is toxic, targeting and divisive. And that’s to lay blame at the door of the people arriving.
I’m with you lucan, happy to see us taking in asylum seekers but we don’t know who’s coming through on those boats, it needs to be done properly, and if I had fled a war torn country, I’d be happy with waiting it out. Rather than paying out what money I do have to criminals and risking my life and my families lives.
Yes there needs to be a proper process, I don’t think (hope) many people would openly argue otherwise. But ours is fundamentally flawed and we’re closing down legal safe routes of travel. That’s why people are resorting to people traffickers. It’s discussed in the Conversation link I posted above.
I’m with you lucan, happy to see us taking in asylum seekers but we don’t know who’s coming through on those boats, it needs to be done properly, and if I had fled a war torn country, I’d be happy with waiting it out. Rather than paying out what money I do have to criminals and risking my life and my families lives.
“If I had fled a war torn country…”
Not sure you’d have had the wherewithal to flee a phone box mate.
I’m with you lucan, happy to see us taking in asylum seekers but we don’t know who’s coming through on those boats, it needs to be done properly, and if I had fled a war torn country, I’d be happy with waiting it out. Rather than paying out what money I do have to criminals and risking my life and my families lives.
What is your experience of living in a war zone? You're sounding like an ignorant arsehole right now.
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:21 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail
“If I had fled a war torn country…”
Not sure you’d have had the wherewithal to flee a phone box mate.
Maybe life in a French refugee camp is not all that great?
Maybe there is a high percentage from French refugee camps who end up getting sent back to their country of origin (or is the perception of those there)?
Who knows (without asking them) why these illegal immigrants cross the Channel in an inflatable dinghy to live under the radar here. (Not sponging off the state btw. No ILLEGAL immigrant ever sponges off the state. Due to their illegal status they will claim nothing from the state.)
As for the supposed safety of crossing the Channel I wouldn't do it on a ferry with stabilisers if I have any reasonable alternative. So what if David Walliams got himself fit enough and had the support team to be able to swim it? That's one of the most ridiculous trolling statements I have ever read.
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:17 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail
Yeah I know you’ve always been open minded.
Who knows until you wear those shoes. We know some people have families and connections here already.
It’s not like this is the first choice destiny for most.
The narrative though that is pushed out there by this government, is toxic, targeting and divisive. And that’s to lay blame at the door of the people arriving.
I'm forced to disagree again I'm afraid.
Having 100 blow up boats a day landing only does one thing, it gives ammunition to racists, and I'll double down here, it's ludicrous.
Let's just say we have a policy of letting xxxx amount of immigrants in, because if you want to look at it sensibly we need to have a plan. These blow up boat guys are not the people that I think should make up part of the xxxx.
Most people in these camps, whether it be at source or in France quite literally haven't got a pot to piss in. The lot that have paid dinghy man have got resources from somewhere and by and large they are not petrified families in fear of getting raped and or killed, they are economic migrants. Fair play, I might do the same.
Call me old fashioned but I would rather help the people without pots.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 22:39]
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
"Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria.
I used to worry for the Red Cross so I know a bit about this. Many of them will have paid traffickers everything they own to make the journey. Even when they have more the traffickers often find ways to justify taking whatever they have left.
Many others make the crossing on credit and end up effectively enslaved to the traffickers while they work off their debt.
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:34 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan
I'm forced to disagree again I'm afraid.
Having 100 blow up boats a day landing only does one thing, it gives ammunition to racists, and I'll double down here, it's ludicrous.
Let's just say we have a policy of letting xxxx amount of immigrants in, because if you want to look at it sensibly we need to have a plan. These blow up boat guys are not the people that I think should make up part of the xxxx.
Most people in these camps, whether it be at source or in France quite literally haven't got a pot to piss in. The lot that have paid dinghy man have got resources from somewhere and by and large they are not petrified families in fear of getting raped and or killed, they are economic migrants. Fair play, I might do the same.
Call me old fashioned but I would rather help the people without pots.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 22:39]
For sure, we need a better plan, we don’t want people risking their lives in dinghies on the channel.
The dinghies are I believe, all impounded at Dover.
I don’t know what that is, other than improved processing of vulnerable people, and an international response to refugees, that doesn’t suggest they all stop at the first border they reach.
Completely agree, we need a plan. We just don’t have the politicians for that.
I used to worry for the Red Cross so I know a bit about this. Many of them will have paid traffickers everything they own to make the journey. Even when they have more the traffickers often find ways to justify taking whatever they have left.
Many others make the crossing on credit and end up effectively enslaved to the traffickers while they work off their debt.
Wow.
Thanks for your contribution. I have learnt something from that.
Are you able to shed any light on why they cross the Channel rather than try to escape to live in France instead?
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:19 - Jul 21 by Nthsuffolkblue
Just to be absolutely clear (because it isn't at the moment), are you trolling or just stupid?
Was simply stating a fact. Which clearly upset a few…was bad taste, so apologies, Most of those boats are shadowed by the french and picked up by the British, I have total Sympathy for the people who have lost their lives trying to make that crossing, and for the people Risking their lives still by making it, I was just trying to Make the Point, that we need to be wary of who Some Of these people are, when it’s not done through the correct process.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2021 22:56]
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"Illegal immigrants" on 22:51 - Jul 21 with 873 views
"Illegal immigrants" on 21:40 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue
Noggin has already said “I'm talking about the labelling of people arriving in small boats and then seeking asylum“. So they can’t be illegal. Asylum seekers have a legal right to claim asylum.
Some people just refuse to acknowledge settled international law, so they can frame their argument, knowing those less diligent won't bother finding out - see Farage, Johnson, Gove, etc and the brexit vote "Turkey are joining the EU and there's nothing we can do" - apart from exercise our total veto, of course you liars.
Vapour hits the button above.
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"Illegal immigrants" on 23:07 - Jul 21 with 824 views
I don’t think People are being unreasonable to be wary of a boat full of mostly young men, who Have 3000-4500 euros to pay to cross the channel, there’s people in this country who if they sold everything they own, probably would have to go across the channel with a woggle.
-5
"Illegal immigrants" on 23:08 - Jul 21 with 813 views
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:43 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail
For sure, we need a better plan, we don’t want people risking their lives in dinghies on the channel.
The dinghies are I believe, all impounded at Dover.
I don’t know what that is, other than improved processing of vulnerable people, and an international response to refugees, that doesn’t suggest they all stop at the first border they reach.
Completely agree, we need a plan. We just don’t have the politicians for that.
a better plan would be for us to agree with france that we will assess asylum seekers who are trying to reach the uk while they are still in france. we thenprovide a safe route for those who have a legitimate asylum case and are determined to get here. there would then be no legal reason to go across the channel or use traffickers.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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"Illegal immigrants" on 23:08 - Jul 21 with 812 views
"Illegal immigrants" on 20:41 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan
Well they are technically illegal but there ya go, personally I think they could care less what they are referred to. In the unlikely event they are perusing TWTD I doubt they would be offended.
Let's be grown ups though, this is absolutely crazy!
I am very much pro immigration, I like the diversity and unlike many I kind of like walking through town and hearing voices from a cross the globe.
The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint.
As a country we should probably accept more people fleeing persecution but we should accept them from bona fida refugee camps and give a priority to families with young children. How anyone thinks it's acceptable to allow unvetted young men in the country who somehow found the cash to pay a kings ransom to get here is beyond me.
We also need to think about where we are going to house these people and all the infrastructure needed to support them when they invariably get the right to stay - or find a cash cow law firm to prevent their extradition for years and years.
At least with refugees from proper camps we can make plans and budget, all these boat bods are doing is preventing the real persecuted refugees from getting here. I mean, they made it to France and must have gone through countless of other safe countries before they splashed their dosh to people traffickers for a blow up boat. It's not as if they got a direct dhingy connection from Syria.
Just going to reply to a paragraph in this:
"The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint."
They have likely spent every penny they have to get on that boat, possibly every penny their family has in a desperate attempt to get to the UK. To make out they have a depth of resources or some money to live the life when they get here really isn't the reality of the situation.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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"Illegal immigrants" on 23:10 - Jul 21 with 800 views
"Illegal immigrants" on 22:43 - Jul 21 by vapour_trail
For sure, we need a better plan, we don’t want people risking their lives in dinghies on the channel.
The dinghies are I believe, all impounded at Dover.
I don’t know what that is, other than improved processing of vulnerable people, and an international response to refugees, that doesn’t suggest they all stop at the first border they reach.
Completely agree, we need a plan. We just don’t have the politicians for that.
Politics is a nasty game Vapes - whatever the side of the fence you are on.
The whole purpose of governmental power is to maintain in power - and I'm talking about the free world here, not a solid dictatorship.
So, government will largely do what the people want. If they don't they will get booted out. It's as simple as that. Future policies are leaked to get a reaction and if the reaction is bad they won't get aired.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
"Illegal immigrants" on 23:08 - Jul 21 by StokieBlue
Just going to reply to a paragraph in this:
"The problem I have though is when I see news reports of a dinghy entering Kent they all seem to be full of strapping young men - and with the cost of paying for the crossing they can't be that skint."
They have likely spent every penny they have to get on that boat, possibly every penny their family has in a desperate attempt to get to the UK. To make out they have a depth of resources or some money to live the life when they get here really isn't the reality of the situation.
SB
That's a massive twist
Quite insulting to be honest.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
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