| Question for ITFCJoe 14:40 - Jul 23 with 2334 views | allezlesbleus |
and others who often watch the youths..........
It seems a number of years since any of our "promising youngsters" have really excelled and proved themselves as decent Premiership or Championship players.
I know that a few "star youngsters" have been poached by Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham and that Andre has the chance to prove his worth at QPR this season, but do you think it is a case that our promising youngsters have been over hyped, or is it due to poor management they haven't been able to kick on to the levels predicted for them?
This is a genuine question.... I can't get to see the youths play and I honestly thought that a few would have become regulars in the first team over the past couple of years, especially taking to account that we are playing in the 3rd tier. |  | | |  |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:50 - Jul 23 with 2252 views | DinnernotTea |
And to add to that with Liam Gibbs. At 18 is he up there with the likes of Dyer, Scowie, Bramble, Bent, Ambrose in that you can see they're going all the way. Or has the FA Cup run propelled him into something he's not? That lot offering 4 years seems a clear sign he's in the Dyer mould no? |  |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:54 - Jul 23 with 2216 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
All of the above. IMHO.
We always over hype our players, beyond belief. It was happening just yesterday about Chirewa.
Yes, he's scored two decent goals, from outside the box, but both were against vastly inferior goalkeepers, in meaningless friendlies, and some on here were acting, having hardly ever seeing him play before, as though we had found the next Darren Bent.
As fans we are so desperate to get them into the first team, often ignoring the benefits of early development at lower level clubs, preferring to throw them into first team games, and the pressure that comes with that, one false move could see you back in the u23s and eventually out of contract.
Poor coaching has almost certainly played a part with us in recent years too. With no disrespect to Mick, midfield is not where you want to be playing under MM if you are a more 'technical' type player like Bishop or Doz who like the ball to feet and then to work it. To then follow that up with Lamberts coaching? Dear oh Dear.
Like I said, all of the above. I think we've done a terrible injustice to Bishop, Doz and Downes all of which would have benefitted from a season in a good team at a lower level 3 years ago. But, Evans wouldn't rebuild would he?
Went with the kids instead and ruined their development. [Post edited 23 Jul 2021 14:55]
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:56 - Jul 23 with 2191 views | allezlesbleus |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:50 - Jul 23 by DinnernotTea |
And to add to that with Liam Gibbs. At 18 is he up there with the likes of Dyer, Scowie, Bramble, Bent, Ambrose in that you can see they're going all the way. Or has the FA Cup run propelled him into something he's not? That lot offering 4 years seems a clear sign he's in the Dyer mould no? |
It was reading about Gibbs that made me want to ask this question. | | | |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:58 - Jul 23 with 2201 views | itfcjoe |
We've effectively had a generation of players that have been lost to a combination of injury and terrible club management.....
The 1999/2000 born players had a flurry of youth internationals (and England's talent ID is excellent) but yet we've got very little out of that age group first team wise when they were one of the most talented teams in the country
Andre Dozzell
Flynn Downes
Tristan Nydam
Ben Morris
Nick Hayes
Luke Woolfenden
Charlie Brown
Jack Lankester
4 of them have suffered awful injuries - Dozzell, Nydam, Morris and Lankester
2 have had terrible and often ill thought out loan moves - Nydam and Morris
1 went to Chelsea and has done well enough - Brown
If the club was run better - then clear that Dozzell, Nydam, Downes and Woolfie all capable of regular Championship football as a minimum standard - that's pretty decent.
Since then we've not had that absolute quality, of players in 18s on radar of all top clubs - but part of the failure has been the disfunction of the first team. Someone like Dyer was a superb youth, but he goes into a brilliantly functioning first team loaded with talent and great attiutdes and a manager who trusts youth players |  |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:02 - Jul 23 with 2130 views | allezlesbleus |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:54 - Jul 23 by Cheltenham_Blue |
All of the above. IMHO.
We always over hype our players, beyond belief. It was happening just yesterday about Chirewa.
Yes, he's scored two decent goals, from outside the box, but both were against vastly inferior goalkeepers, in meaningless friendlies, and some on here were acting, having hardly ever seeing him play before, as though we had found the next Darren Bent.
As fans we are so desperate to get them into the first team, often ignoring the benefits of early development at lower level clubs, preferring to throw them into first team games, and the pressure that comes with that, one false move could see you back in the u23s and eventually out of contract.
Poor coaching has almost certainly played a part with us in recent years too. With no disrespect to Mick, midfield is not where you want to be playing under MM if you are a more 'technical' type player like Bishop or Doz who like the ball to feet and then to work it. To then follow that up with Lamberts coaching? Dear oh Dear.
Like I said, all of the above. I think we've done a terrible injustice to Bishop, Doz and Downes all of which would have benefitted from a season in a good team at a lower level 3 years ago. But, Evans wouldn't rebuild would he?
Went with the kids instead and ruined their development. [Post edited 23 Jul 2021 14:55]
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It is difficult to know how Bishop, Dozzell and Downes would have done in different circumstances, but I personally feel they would have been more successful. I would have liked at least 1 to have been kept on and told to push on in the team, as I think playing alongside the new signings, who I believe will be much more hungry and determined to succeed, would give our youngsters a real boost. However, Cook knows the players and their attitudes, so we have to trust him on this. Also Bishop and Dozzell had serious injuries at important times, so maybe they have just lost a bit????? | | | |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:04 - Jul 23 with 2107 views | wkj |
THe problem I see is that over-hyped isn't a good catch all-
I believe the hype around Bishop, Lankester and Doz was justified - but the type of injuries they had early reduced their career potential, whereas the original hype persisted.
Nydam is another young player whose potential was robbed by injury - he seems to be taking a very big decision with his career.
The curious ones are the likes of Ben Knight, and now Gibbs. We've not really heard much on Knight, and Gibbs is about to find his path into the senior game in a different way.
I expect Gibbs will turn out to be a good player. Rivalries aside, a team like Norwich who will be bouncing about the Premier League and Championship is probably the perfect place for Gibbs. They have a very good academy, much more likely to call him up to make senior appearances as he develops (than Man City), and is fairly close to home for him. So on this token, I expect he will possibly flourish, there Knight will probably be released to a lower league club where he has prove himself in order to move up the ladder. *
*Edit: That said, Knight is going to be given a chance to show Pep what he can do this week as most of the senior players are on extended leave at Man City. [Post edited 23 Jul 2021 15:08]
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:04 - Jul 23 with 2088 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:54 - Jul 23 by Cheltenham_Blue |
All of the above. IMHO.
We always over hype our players, beyond belief. It was happening just yesterday about Chirewa.
Yes, he's scored two decent goals, from outside the box, but both were against vastly inferior goalkeepers, in meaningless friendlies, and some on here were acting, having hardly ever seeing him play before, as though we had found the next Darren Bent.
As fans we are so desperate to get them into the first team, often ignoring the benefits of early development at lower level clubs, preferring to throw them into first team games, and the pressure that comes with that, one false move could see you back in the u23s and eventually out of contract.
Poor coaching has almost certainly played a part with us in recent years too. With no disrespect to Mick, midfield is not where you want to be playing under MM if you are a more 'technical' type player like Bishop or Doz who like the ball to feet and then to work it. To then follow that up with Lamberts coaching? Dear oh Dear.
Like I said, all of the above. I think we've done a terrible injustice to Bishop, Doz and Downes all of which would have benefitted from a season in a good team at a lower level 3 years ago. But, Evans wouldn't rebuild would he?
Went with the kids instead and ruined their development. [Post edited 23 Jul 2021 14:55]
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Chirewas is the next Pele!! |  |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:09 - Jul 23 with 2060 views | Mediocre_Quick |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:50 - Jul 23 by DinnernotTea |
And to add to that with Liam Gibbs. At 18 is he up there with the likes of Dyer, Scowie, Bramble, Bent, Ambrose in that you can see they're going all the way. Or has the FA Cup run propelled him into something he's not? That lot offering 4 years seems a clear sign he's in the Dyer mould no? |
Ambrose? All the way? I loved him at Town, but his move to Newcastle ruined him IMO, never fulfilled his potential to then move on to Charlton, then Palace to then be, a loan man to anyone who would take him, including his poor run back at us... |  | | |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:13 - Jul 23 with 2013 views | DinnernotTea |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:09 - Jul 23 by Mediocre_Quick |
Ambrose? All the way? I loved him at Town, but his move to Newcastle ruined him IMO, never fulfilled his potential to then move on to Charlton, then Palace to then be, a loan man to anyone who would take him, including his poor run back at us... |
As in he played Prem football i mean. | |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 15:45 - Jul 23 with 1884 views | BlueyandCrazy |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 14:58 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
We've effectively had a generation of players that have been lost to a combination of injury and terrible club management.....
The 1999/2000 born players had a flurry of youth internationals (and England's talent ID is excellent) but yet we've got very little out of that age group first team wise when they were one of the most talented teams in the country
Andre Dozzell
Flynn Downes
Tristan Nydam
Ben Morris
Nick Hayes
Luke Woolfenden
Charlie Brown
Jack Lankester
4 of them have suffered awful injuries - Dozzell, Nydam, Morris and Lankester
2 have had terrible and often ill thought out loan moves - Nydam and Morris
1 went to Chelsea and has done well enough - Brown
If the club was run better - then clear that Dozzell, Nydam, Downes and Woolfie all capable of regular Championship football as a minimum standard - that's pretty decent.
Since then we've not had that absolute quality, of players in 18s on radar of all top clubs - but part of the failure has been the disfunction of the first team. Someone like Dyer was a superb youth, but he goes into a brilliantly functioning first team loaded with talent and great attiutdes and a manager who trusts youth players |
Nick Hayes, what happened to him? | |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 17:35 - Jul 23 with 1603 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 17:38 - Jul 23 with 1577 views | Mullet |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 17:35 - Jul 23 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Didn't Tyreese Simpson get quite the push in the last 12-18 months? Elkan Baggott is going to look lightweight for a CB too given his age but might have an opportunity in the Pizza trophy or whatnot again. |  |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 20:14 - Jul 23 with 1369 views | DinnernotTea |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 17:35 - Jul 23 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
The club do seem to be obsessed with creating tidy footballers who can play triangles 60 yards from goal. But when it comes to both boxes they lack creating anyone good enough. Even Woolf is a pretty, tidy centre back! | |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 20:25 - Jul 23 with 1333 views | hype313 |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 17:35 - Jul 23 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Kieron was hardly Jonah Lomu when he broke into the first team. |  |
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| Question for ITFCJoe on 21:34 - Jul 23 with 1195 views | BryanPlug |
| Question for ITFCJoe on 20:25 - Jul 23 by hype313 |
Kieron was hardly Jonah Lomu when he broke into the first team. |
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