| Everything is awesome 21:52 - Aug 15 with 20854 views | Mullet |
Having seen both league games thus far, it's pretty clear that Cook's decision to be "Demolition Man" might well render his time here a cult classic, rather than the blockbuster we are budgeting for.
It wasn't necessary to rip apart the whole team, it was a decision and direction decided upon, and the first few steps have seen us in the gutter haven't they? Overloaded with attacking depth but unable to find a front 4 that doesn't limit Piggott to playing second balls to new runners or empty spaces for most of his time on the pitch.
He and Fraser have been devastating at this level for smaller teams, as with most of the individuals you can see the potential there but that doesn't mean we are yet. Lots of possession and a clear intent to strafe wide and overload fullbacks. It's ironic we conceded in that way against Burton. KVY finding himself further forward than he managed prior, the whole side gets caught out and once again it's one shot and we are behind.
Cook has been here months, he couldn't make it work with what he had, he has been given way more than anyone else for a long time. It's all well and good pointing to his past at other clubs, but his past at Ipswich and thus his present, is closer to the bloody woeful we've been accustomed to. Pointing that out is not the TWTD equivalent of going to the Vatican and giving the Pope a kick up the ass.
You can probably be assured Cook and his staff will be unhappy with the points tally and the manner in which we've been so generous to teams with far smaller budgets and even more churn in the case of Morecambe.
More worryingly for them might be Ashton and the higher ups. They clearly didn't appoint Cook, they perhaps didn't see prudence in removing him right away either financially or morally when taking over. This is a marriage of convenience in some respects and this summer seems very much like Cook is backing himself, using the dollars available. That could all change very quickly without promotion on the table.
Pretending promotion is beyond this club is equally laughable, especially given all the chiding about "ambition" in recent years and when we were looking to do it in the league above. It absolutely must and should be the minimum we expect. 3 teams will go up, we should be one of them preferably as champions - otherwise this recall to Cook's CV is fairly moot. Let alone the fact we've got rid of Evans' approach and been told everything we wanted to hear for years.
Harper and Edwards look like they belong on the path to being in the league above already, and will hone that claim with game time. The lovely shapes Harper made when we got the ball down and he broke the play up were even better than the few times Dobra and Fraser did it. The fact we then didn't see players getting off shots and were reduced to hoping that flashes across the goal might be turned in yesterday, speaks to how disjointed we are.
The manner in which we conceded a second against Morecambe, seemed to plague us up top yesterday and with so many personnel changes it's not that surprising. Adding Burgess in will help breed some confidence amongst players and fans alike, it's a late but welcome addition in my opinion.
Woolfenden won a fair amount yesterday, Donacien again showed he's incredibly dependable but will never really excel. Given KVY seems to have lost a yard in his feet and another in his head, whether it's fear of getting hurt or a lack of fitness, the idea of replacing him with JD makes the whole system Cook is trying to employ, severely hampered. Regardless he hasn't managed many games for us yet and assuming he should or will is risky still.
Penney like many others seems to have the right ideas but not the right amount of belief or understanding around him. Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe sh1t seems to be the pattern of play we've settled for so far. But that will improve as time goes on. If it doesn't then we truly are a managerial graveyard and need something else drastically.
Fans haven't been in the grounds for over a year and that seems to play on everyone concerned. When we concede the atmosphere whooshes out and away almost instantly. People either side of the lines are unsure about what to say and do, particularly when things don't go as we'd like. But no amount of thought-policing and insistence on being cheery about failing to beat not one, but two teams, we'd never consider rivals to promotion is as wrong as it is tiring.
Just as it seemed there was a place for Toto and Norwood, there now doesn't unless they cycle in as others replace them on the treatment table and the timescales to get the spine sorted makes it little wonder why we've come out of the season crawling along.
Pointing to when and what side X or manager Y did is fairly irrelevant. There isn't a context which lends itself to ITFC completely changing in a matter of weeks and with it expectations and the ability to meet them.
Hladky has looked a far more rounded keeper, our central midfielders as good as those we just sold to promotion chasers in the league above, there's an abundance of threat up top but so far less return than we needed. But we've failed to keep teams out with barely a fight.
This has the makings of the most exciting season since the playoff campaign (because of where it sets us up to be) and there is enough about us to see us do well, but thinking we can just will that into existence is stupid. The longer we ponder and fail to produce wins with regularity the speed with which this league will leave us behind is the one thing we should have gotten used to in the years we've been down here.
It's a massive stain on this club being relegated to this level. It's still very much all over us for now. There's nothing wrong with facing up to that regularly either is there? They've been pretty open with us how long it will take to sort off the field, but on the field it should definitely be a much shorter timescale. |  |
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| Everything is awesome on 14:54 - Aug 16 with 3176 views | franz_tyson |
| Everything is awesome on 13:03 - Aug 16 by Moriarty |
Mullet in your opening post - "we've failed to keep teams out with barely a fight".
You've nailed it in those few words. And it's a significant worry.
When Mick came in, we beat Birmingham 1-0 and Mick's post match comments were (I'm paraphrasing) "if they defended like that under PJ, PJ would still be manager". It's a very telling comment.
Many years ago (I can't remember the exact season) Crystal Palace were loitering in the lower echelons in the Championship. They appointed Ian Dowie. They went from relegation candidates to promotion via the play offs (iirc).
We've lost genuine quality in Dozzell, Downes and Gibbs. Part and parcel of the hatchet job as the manager laid all the blame on the players. That hatchet job may be his undoing.
One poster has suggested that the reason things may not have started as we might like is because Ashton brought in some players and not Cook. We're at that level unfortunately.
I'm double Pfizered and I understand my immunity will start to wane after 6 months. Hopefully a top up jab before December. Not sure how long Cook's immunity will last but the new signings have generated an exuberance on here which condemns valid questions as churlish and childish. That will wane too.
We need results. Winning breeds confidence.
Burley united this club from top to bottom. That's the challenge facing Cook. |
“Mullet in your opening post - "we've failed to keep teams out with barely a fight"”
What are you talking about? We’ve played 2 league games where we’ve been bothin the games. Disappointing results and we need to improve, but ‘barely a fight?’ . We could possibly have won both games, even if we didn’t really deserve to..
And you mention talent weve lost- Downes, Dozzell and Gibbs. What about the talent of the 15 signings? You think that losing those 3 outweighs all those signings? Downes went backwards in an injury-ridden season, Dozzell is a work in progress and has never controlled one game of football and Gibbs hasn’t completed one league game. Those three wouldn’t have made much difference even though Downes is the best of the bunch. Wow….. we’ve played two games. You mention Mick and his first win. in Mick’s first four games we got hammered twice before things got better. It takes time.
Just get things in perspective. |  | | |
| Everything is awesome on 15:04 - Aug 16 with 3158 views | Matt_Netherlands |
You raise a lot of good points, but genuine question... if we hadn't have conceded that stupid second goal and beat Morecambe 2-1 and then had Fraser converted that pen on Sat and we scraped a 2-1 win, would you still have posted this glass half empty view? (Yes yes I know, if my granny had a...)
You're right that Cook is out of the honeymoon period for many. You're right that some of our defending has been lightweight. And you're right that we need some points on the board. But just like how we'd all be saying we need to keep our feet on the ground (Recall the last two seasons...) if we had a perfect record so far this season, we shouldn't get carried away by the start to this campaign.
For all of our sakes, I hope we look back at this post in March and have a chuckle about how dramatic it was! |  | | |
| Everything is awesome on 15:25 - Aug 16 with 3131 views | Keaneish |
| Everything is awesome on 15:04 - Aug 16 by Matt_Netherlands |
You raise a lot of good points, but genuine question... if we hadn't have conceded that stupid second goal and beat Morecambe 2-1 and then had Fraser converted that pen on Sat and we scraped a 2-1 win, would you still have posted this glass half empty view? (Yes yes I know, if my granny had a...)
You're right that Cook is out of the honeymoon period for many. You're right that some of our defending has been lightweight. And you're right that we need some points on the board. But just like how we'd all be saying we need to keep our feet on the ground (Recall the last two seasons...) if we had a perfect record so far this season, we shouldn't get carried away by the start to this campaign.
For all of our sakes, I hope we look back at this post in March and have a chuckle about how dramatic it was! |
Agreed. I actually think we'll be looking back in about 4 or 5 games time and chuckling to be honest.
I think some people have lost sight of the fact we've changed owners, manager, backroom staff and nearly all the playing personnel in a ridiculously short space. There are probably lads in that changing room who have barely spoken to each other or worked out their standing within the group yet.
Roll on tomorrow night and a happy drive home. |  |
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| Everything is awesome on 15:55 - Aug 16 with 3081 views | Moriarty |
| Everything is awesome on 13:52 - Aug 16 by Keaneish |
...we also went on to get tonked 5 and 6 by palace and Leicester several games later so it was a short new manager bounce.
You mention we've lost genuine quality in Downes, Gibbs and Dozzell but that's a little bit of revisionism there (Mullet's favourite phrase) given Dozzell is still a prospect despite all his appearances and we only saw a glimpse of Gibbs. I'm disappointed Downes went but we have brought genuine quality so you can't have it both ways.
This thread feels like its harping back to the fan split, the MM camp and the non-MM camp; no wonder given Mullet's undertones, as is always the case.
Can we all agree to settle in for the ride, accept what has happened and look forward to this season? Can't believe the dampers that have been put on it after one poor-ish performance! |
To deny Mick made an immediate impact is simply untrue. We were dead and buried until he came and ended up in the play offs. Cook didn't have any new bounce having come in on the back of 3 wins (if somewhat fortunate wins). We limped badly to season end and he then decimated the squad. Will that leave scars? Challenging the narrative that everything was all the player's fault is perfectly reasonable, indeed necessary.
Dozzell is gone to a championship club, ditto Downes. For decent wedge. Gibbs to a premiership club who had been aware of him, glimpses or otherwise. We went scrambling on 30th June to retain Gibbs. We messed up there. All 3 came from our academy.
I think Mullet's post is perfectly reasoned and valid and certainly don't agree with you when you say "as is always the case". If you wish to take aim about the MM reference, you can aim at me as I'm the one who gave the example of Mick's first game v Birmingham. However, I think it remains a valid point.
I recall you were an advocate of Cook before he arrived. I was for Dyer. Even if things don't work out for him here, it wont make Cook a bad manager. Rather , it will mean it just didn't work for him here. But his record with other clubs can't shield him from scrutiny here and our results have not improved since he came. Personally though, I'm not a fan of two holding midfielders.
I don't think dampers are being put on anything either. Cook knows its a results business. I think it is universally accepted that there must be a degree of patience but that has to be balanced against what we are playing and the players we have at our disposal.
We all want promotion and in supporting that, we should always be free to question and challenge. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 15:57]
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| Everything is awesome on 16:16 - Aug 16 with 3041 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everything is awesome on 14:26 - Aug 16 by itfcjoe |
Everything is awesome by PhilTWTD 16 Aug 2021 8:43One report said Cook would come in as part of the takeover. It was wrong, he was Marcus's appointment at a time Marcus hadn't decided to sell the club, indeed he was trying to work a situation where investment came in rather than a takeover. Once he was in position, Gamechanger weren't too unhappy, hence their public backing, but from what I was told prior to the Cook story their preferred candidate was Michael Appleton, who MA and MOL had previously worked with at West Brom and Oxford.
Cook very definitely didn't know anything about the takeover, other than what had been reported, until it happened. He was shocked when it went through as he'd not been kept in the loop while discussions were ongoing.
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Hmm, interesting. MOL said Cook was their number one.
I'm not saying Phil's source is wrong but like I say, the negotiations to buy the club started long before Cook was spoken about. If they'd said Cook's not going to be part of our deal, would Evans still have gone with him?
Who knows what the truth is. We can either go with a whisper Phil heard or what the new owners said. They could've just backed him, they didn't need to say "he was our number one too."
Not sure any of this is all that relevant anyway. If he doesn't get us winning he'll be gone regardless of if they wanted him or not. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everything is awesome on 16:21 - Aug 16 with 3034 views | PhilTWTD |
| Everything is awesome on 12:44 - Aug 16 by Keaneish |
I do remember O'Leary saying him and the Game Changer crew (advisors) had compared notes and, "Cook was top of both their lists". This may just be PR and lip sync but O'Leary seems to be trustworthy and has come across very well so far so i don't see any reason to disbelieve him.
Also, at the time (and still now) Cook was clearly a very strong candidate. Other than The Cowleys, there weren't too many other unemployed managers in the mix after Pearson when to Bristol City. |
I've no doubt Cook would have been near the top of their list, as it would have been for anyone at League One level, but I think they would have appointed Appleton if they had been in charge when Lambert left. |  | | |
| Everything is awesome on 16:23 - Aug 16 with 3020 views | Mullet |
| Everything is awesome on 13:03 - Aug 16 by Moriarty |
Mullet in your opening post - "we've failed to keep teams out with barely a fight".
You've nailed it in those few words. And it's a significant worry.
When Mick came in, we beat Birmingham 1-0 and Mick's post match comments were (I'm paraphrasing) "if they defended like that under PJ, PJ would still be manager". It's a very telling comment.
Many years ago (I can't remember the exact season) Crystal Palace were loitering in the lower echelons in the Championship. They appointed Ian Dowie. They went from relegation candidates to promotion via the play offs (iirc).
We've lost genuine quality in Dozzell, Downes and Gibbs. Part and parcel of the hatchet job as the manager laid all the blame on the players. That hatchet job may be his undoing.
One poster has suggested that the reason things may not have started as we might like is because Ashton brought in some players and not Cook. We're at that level unfortunately.
I'm double Pfizered and I understand my immunity will start to wane after 6 months. Hopefully a top up jab before December. Not sure how long Cook's immunity will last but the new signings have generated an exuberance on here which condemns valid questions as churlish and childish. That will wane too.
We need results. Winning breeds confidence.
Burley united this club from top to bottom. That's the challenge facing Cook. |
It's pretty telling who and how Mick is used in this thread alongside several other things to dismiss and deflect eh? He obviously had us turned around very quickly and it was getting the defence right which was the bedrock of that.
As I said, Burgess is very welcome in that respect as I think he's a very good signing. Fans would probably prefer a Mowbray/De Vos/ Elliot type if pressed but that's simply human nature in looking for patterns.
Same as this harking back to Burley/Bobby et al. Brett Johnson and his compatriots won't have the same view of managers as we do. He mentioned Chelsea and Fulham as the breeding grounds for his love of the English game, both have shown a preference for investing in big players and cycling through managers before they go stale. If Gamechanger have that attitude, it's possible Cook will serve his purpose and be free to explore a big contract elsewhere and all parties will be happy with that.
I think you can dismiss the bitterness towards to Dozzell and Downes, as you can that of Chambers. People grinding the same nubs regardless of what's posted is a fairly tired occurrence on here. Circumstance didn't suit keeping those players, but as I said initially that was a conscious choice and direction not something that has to be particularly controversial.
It's very strange that a handful are so embedded in this positivity powertrip that simple facts no longer apply, even when Phil wades in with them isn't it? Unity would be great and wins will bring it. Pointing that hasn't arrived yet needs a bit of perspective from some doesn't it? | |
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| Everything is awesome on 16:24 - Aug 16 with 3013 views | Mullet |
| Everything is awesome on 14:54 - Aug 16 by franz_tyson |
“Mullet in your opening post - "we've failed to keep teams out with barely a fight"”
What are you talking about? We’ve played 2 league games where we’ve been bothin the games. Disappointing results and we need to improve, but ‘barely a fight?’ . We could possibly have won both games, even if we didn’t really deserve to..
And you mention talent weve lost- Downes, Dozzell and Gibbs. What about the talent of the 15 signings? You think that losing those 3 outweighs all those signings? Downes went backwards in an injury-ridden season, Dozzell is a work in progress and has never controlled one game of football and Gibbs hasn’t completed one league game. Those three wouldn’t have made much difference even though Downes is the best of the bunch. Wow….. we’ve played two games. You mention Mick and his first win. in Mick’s first four games we got hammered twice before things got better. It takes time.
Just get things in perspective. |
I think you've completely misunderstood, I was talking about the manner of conceding specifically. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 16:30 - Aug 16 with 2998 views | Keaneish |
| Everything is awesome on 15:55 - Aug 16 by Moriarty |
To deny Mick made an immediate impact is simply untrue. We were dead and buried until he came and ended up in the play offs. Cook didn't have any new bounce having come in on the back of 3 wins (if somewhat fortunate wins). We limped badly to season end and he then decimated the squad. Will that leave scars? Challenging the narrative that everything was all the player's fault is perfectly reasonable, indeed necessary.
Dozzell is gone to a championship club, ditto Downes. For decent wedge. Gibbs to a premiership club who had been aware of him, glimpses or otherwise. We went scrambling on 30th June to retain Gibbs. We messed up there. All 3 came from our academy.
I think Mullet's post is perfectly reasoned and valid and certainly don't agree with you when you say "as is always the case". If you wish to take aim about the MM reference, you can aim at me as I'm the one who gave the example of Mick's first game v Birmingham. However, I think it remains a valid point.
I recall you were an advocate of Cook before he arrived. I was for Dyer. Even if things don't work out for him here, it wont make Cook a bad manager. Rather , it will mean it just didn't work for him here. But his record with other clubs can't shield him from scrutiny here and our results have not improved since he came. Personally though, I'm not a fan of two holding midfielders.
I don't think dampers are being put on anything either. Cook knows its a results business. I think it is universally accepted that there must be a degree of patience but that has to be balanced against what we are playing and the players we have at our disposal.
We all want promotion and in supporting that, we should always be free to question and challenge. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 15:57]
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Mullet's post turns all the positives about playing attacking football with intent to win games and the exciting squad building that's happened into negatives.
We're three games in and there's lots of rhetoric harping back to several years ago or looking at the players who've gone out the door. Why? We should be looking forward with renewed vigour and optimism yet, unfortunately, it's all become a little tinged on here this week.
Yes, i was for Paul Cook before he arrived because i like the football he tries to play. It doesn't always work but when it does, its exciting - our first goal against Morecambe being that. He deserves all the scrutiny he gets if he doesn't succeed but now really isn't the time.
RE: Dozzell - i'll wager with you now, Dozzell will never hit the heights his potential promises and he'll have a mediocre career not achieving much in the way of accolade and recognition. He has the ability but it'll never come to fruition because he needs to add more tenacity and desire to his game, which i don't believe is in his character. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 16:31 - Aug 16 with 2996 views | Mullet |
| Everything is awesome on 15:04 - Aug 16 by Matt_Netherlands |
You raise a lot of good points, but genuine question... if we hadn't have conceded that stupid second goal and beat Morecambe 2-1 and then had Fraser converted that pen on Sat and we scraped a 2-1 win, would you still have posted this glass half empty view? (Yes yes I know, if my granny had a...)
You're right that Cook is out of the honeymoon period for many. You're right that some of our defending has been lightweight. And you're right that we need some points on the board. But just like how we'd all be saying we need to keep our feet on the ground (Recall the last two seasons...) if we had a perfect record so far this season, we shouldn't get carried away by the start to this campaign.
For all of our sakes, I hope we look back at this post in March and have a chuckle about how dramatic it was! |
It's odd that honesty and accuracy is treated as "glass half full" isn't it? There isn't really any escaping the results and the performances, no matter how hard people are trying here. Abuse, denial, dishonesty all at play from a handful desperate to read and see what simply isn't there.
The car crash a few have had on this thread is only strengthening the viewpoint of those of us in the middle ground isn't it?
I'd argue all the goals we've conceded are on a spectrum of poor. I think someone said Hladky is yet to make a save. Sandwich in a bizarre cup game and it's not really dramatic to state facts is it? Or draw from them rather than speculating on the hypothetical and screaming that anything else is negative, treacherous or worse as so many posts seem to have done so far.
1 in 6 is not good enough at any point in the season for a club setting itself up as we have been, the players, the manager and the owners are all talking about promotion and have been consistently. Referencing that as the benchmark isn't the heresy or cause for such disdain some TWTDers insist it is. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 16:33 - Aug 16 with 2982 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everything is awesome on 16:30 - Aug 16 by Keaneish |
Mullet's post turns all the positives about playing attacking football with intent to win games and the exciting squad building that's happened into negatives.
We're three games in and there's lots of rhetoric harping back to several years ago or looking at the players who've gone out the door. Why? We should be looking forward with renewed vigour and optimism yet, unfortunately, it's all become a little tinged on here this week.
Yes, i was for Paul Cook before he arrived because i like the football he tries to play. It doesn't always work but when it does, its exciting - our first goal against Morecambe being that. He deserves all the scrutiny he gets if he doesn't succeed but now really isn't the time.
RE: Dozzell - i'll wager with you now, Dozzell will never hit the heights his potential promises and he'll have a mediocre career not achieving much in the way of accolade and recognition. He has the ability but it'll never come to fruition because he needs to add more tenacity and desire to his game, which i don't believe is in his character. |
Indeed. All this willy-waving is pointless. It's way too early for this forensic analysis yet.
As BritBoy Langers used to say, let's just wait and see. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everything is awesome on 17:41 - Aug 16 with 2894 views | Keaneish |
| Everything is awesome on 16:31 - Aug 16 by Mullet |
It's odd that honesty and accuracy is treated as "glass half full" isn't it? There isn't really any escaping the results and the performances, no matter how hard people are trying here. Abuse, denial, dishonesty all at play from a handful desperate to read and see what simply isn't there.
The car crash a few have had on this thread is only strengthening the viewpoint of those of us in the middle ground isn't it?
I'd argue all the goals we've conceded are on a spectrum of poor. I think someone said Hladky is yet to make a save. Sandwich in a bizarre cup game and it's not really dramatic to state facts is it? Or draw from them rather than speculating on the hypothetical and screaming that anything else is negative, treacherous or worse as so many posts seem to have done so far.
1 in 6 is not good enough at any point in the season for a club setting itself up as we have been, the players, the manager and the owners are all talking about promotion and have been consistently. Referencing that as the benchmark isn't the heresy or cause for such disdain some TWTDers insist it is. |
Let's put you into perspective as you see fit to do so for everyone else...
- "honesty and accuracy" = an opinion
- "abuse, denial, dishonesty" = over sensationalising (again)
- "The car crash a few have had..." = arrogance
- "State facts" = without any wider context is flawed
- "screaming....negative, treacherous or worse" = over sensationalising (yet again)
Yay, Mullet is well and truly back! Let's hope we start winning to make all our lives bearable for 21/22. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 17:42 - Aug 16 with 2892 views | Matt_Netherlands |
| Everything is awesome on 16:31 - Aug 16 by Mullet |
It's odd that honesty and accuracy is treated as "glass half full" isn't it? There isn't really any escaping the results and the performances, no matter how hard people are trying here. Abuse, denial, dishonesty all at play from a handful desperate to read and see what simply isn't there.
The car crash a few have had on this thread is only strengthening the viewpoint of those of us in the middle ground isn't it?
I'd argue all the goals we've conceded are on a spectrum of poor. I think someone said Hladky is yet to make a save. Sandwich in a bizarre cup game and it's not really dramatic to state facts is it? Or draw from them rather than speculating on the hypothetical and screaming that anything else is negative, treacherous or worse as so many posts seem to have done so far.
1 in 6 is not good enough at any point in the season for a club setting itself up as we have been, the players, the manager and the owners are all talking about promotion and have been consistently. Referencing that as the benchmark isn't the heresy or cause for such disdain some TWTDers insist it is. |
Apologies, not sure which part of my post was taken to constitute abuse! I stand by that first question though.... it just shows the fine margins between a good start to the season and panic station. | | | |
| Everything is awesome on 19:05 - Aug 16 with 2836 views | legoman |
| Everything is awesome on 23:14 - Aug 15 by timothyeo |
Really good post. |
lol. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 19:42 - Aug 16 with 2795 views | Mullet |
| Everything is awesome on 17:42 - Aug 16 by Matt_Netherlands |
Apologies, not sure which part of my post was taken to constitute abuse! I stand by that first question though.... it just shows the fine margins between a good start to the season and panic station. |
None of it. It's pretty clear where this thread has twisted and turned though, and how various people have projected all sorts onto others at the first sign of anything which isn't oppressively joyful.
In the space of now and the OP two players have signed who have been celebrated for being in this league's TOTS and as having pedigree from the leagues above, all whilst the promotion message has been stated clearly from the players and manager.
Yet mentioning it yields this as you say, panic stations but from those who are at lengths to insist how happy they are now. It's just all very odd how much effort goes into distorting what should be good and lively discussion across the fanbase. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 19:50 - Aug 16 with 2764 views | Moriarty |
| Everything is awesome on 17:41 - Aug 16 by Keaneish |
Let's put you into perspective as you see fit to do so for everyone else...
- "honesty and accuracy" = an opinion
- "abuse, denial, dishonesty" = over sensationalising (again)
- "The car crash a few have had..." = arrogance
- "State facts" = without any wider context is flawed
- "screaming....negative, treacherous or worse" = over sensationalising (yet again)
Yay, Mullet is well and truly back! Let's hope we start winning to make all our lives bearable for 21/22. |
If I can offer a little subjective context.
On the Friday before Italy v England, I offered a post wishing England well and hoping that all that was decent about English football would prevail. I cited some examples of how English (and indeed Irish) fans had let themselves down. That led to one poster likening me to an IRA activist before 2 more joined in, going on to call me “dirt”, “xenophobe” and more. After what transpired on Sunday, no word of apology from either of the 3 amigos. Their silence a tell.
So I tend to distinguish between posters like my 3 amigos, their motivation, etc and posters who disagree with me on football and other matters. I agree with Mullet. I think it’s a very good post. Posts that disagree are not bad posts.
It’s good we have different views and most of us exchange them playing the ball not the man (unlike the 3 amigos).
There is genuine debate to be had about where we are at and the folly or otherwise of the apotheosis of Cook. I think we’ve made bad defensive errors through Pre season and in the games that matter and that is a red flag. Our central defenders v Morecambe had both been told to find new clubs. It’s not easy for them to gel with new arrivals under those circumstances and it’s perfectly fair to ask whether the whole sale changes were needed. Did the former squad show anything extra when Cook arrived? Was that all on the players? Is there discord (or potential discord). between the remainers and the new arrivals?
Not all signings work out, yet that reality doesn’t bite with everyone. Our hopes hang on all of them, or the vast majority of them being a hit. There is good cause to have a guarded prognosis - that does not equate with us wishing Cook to fail (as any such conclusion would equate with the brainpower of the 3 amigos).
We all want us to succeed, and even if we do, when we do, questioning should always be part of the discussion. The best way for us to gel is to win.
As for Dozzell, I can’t foresee if he’ll become a hit at QPR or anywhere else but my fabric, or my beating heart (to borrow from Sheepy) wishes he would have had a proper chance to do it here. | |
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| Everything is awesome on 21:24 - Aug 16 with 2702 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everything is awesome on 08:32 - Aug 16 by gordon |
Think this is the naive take on the situation - of course Cook is a respected, competent manager who has achieved success at this level before, so obviously the new owners most sensible strategy was to publicly back him once the takeover was complete.
They are hardly going to come out and say, "well, there were 3 or 4 managers we were considering and Cook was one of them but actually we were going to try and get Appleton - but to be honest now he's signed a new contract at Lincoln and Cook is in post we've decided to get behind him." |
Or they just back the manager and make no comment on who they would've chosen. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everything is awesome on 21:30 - Aug 16 with 2693 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everything is awesome on 08:34 - Aug 16 by itfcjoe |
I think everyone assumed new owners had a hand in Cook as is a logical view to take on it, but both TWTD (Phil Ham) and EADT (Andy Warren and Stu Watson) have all stated that this wasn't the case and that Cook hadn't spoken to them at all before the takeover.
Those 3 guys are all very well connected, and when they've all gone that strongly on that opinion I tend to think they are right. |
Cook doesn't have to have spoken to them for them to have had an input. With negotiations going on long before Cook was even a candidate I think it's highly unlikely they and Evans never discussed it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everything is awesome on 21:33 - Aug 16 with 2692 views | textbackup |
all that from 2 league games,.
can't wait for the length of the post after 46 league games. |  |
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| Everything is awesome on 21:46 - Aug 16 with 2665 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everything is awesome on 13:03 - Aug 16 by Moriarty |
Mullet in your opening post - "we've failed to keep teams out with barely a fight".
You've nailed it in those few words. And it's a significant worry.
When Mick came in, we beat Birmingham 1-0 and Mick's post match comments were (I'm paraphrasing) "if they defended like that under PJ, PJ would still be manager". It's a very telling comment.
Many years ago (I can't remember the exact season) Crystal Palace were loitering in the lower echelons in the Championship. They appointed Ian Dowie. They went from relegation candidates to promotion via the play offs (iirc).
We've lost genuine quality in Dozzell, Downes and Gibbs. Part and parcel of the hatchet job as the manager laid all the blame on the players. That hatchet job may be his undoing.
One poster has suggested that the reason things may not have started as we might like is because Ashton brought in some players and not Cook. We're at that level unfortunately.
I'm double Pfizered and I understand my immunity will start to wane after 6 months. Hopefully a top up jab before December. Not sure how long Cook's immunity will last but the new signings have generated an exuberance on here which condemns valid questions as churlish and childish. That will wane too.
We need results. Winning breeds confidence.
Burley united this club from top to bottom. That's the challenge facing Cook. |
"One poster has suggested that the reason things may not have started as we might like is because Ashton brought in some players and not Cook. We're at that level unfortunately."
Are we? Because one poster suggested it? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everything is awesome on 21:55 - Aug 16 with 2636 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everything is awesome on 13:41 - Aug 16 by reusersfreekicks |
ffs what is the matter with you people. Pls point me to where people are "screaming for his head."
Again - a manger in post for long as he has been is open to scrutiny and opinion not just 100% blind support. |
Pls point me to posters with just 100% blind support.
This poster, saying some are screaming for his head, is just one poster, with only 3 posts to his name EVER.
Most aren't accusing people of screaming for his head OR giving 100% blind support. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everything is awesome on 21:58 - Aug 16 with 2626 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Everything is awesome on 19:50 - Aug 16 by Moriarty |
If I can offer a little subjective context.
On the Friday before Italy v England, I offered a post wishing England well and hoping that all that was decent about English football would prevail. I cited some examples of how English (and indeed Irish) fans had let themselves down. That led to one poster likening me to an IRA activist before 2 more joined in, going on to call me “dirt”, “xenophobe” and more. After what transpired on Sunday, no word of apology from either of the 3 amigos. Their silence a tell.
So I tend to distinguish between posters like my 3 amigos, their motivation, etc and posters who disagree with me on football and other matters. I agree with Mullet. I think it’s a very good post. Posts that disagree are not bad posts.
It’s good we have different views and most of us exchange them playing the ball not the man (unlike the 3 amigos).
There is genuine debate to be had about where we are at and the folly or otherwise of the apotheosis of Cook. I think we’ve made bad defensive errors through Pre season and in the games that matter and that is a red flag. Our central defenders v Morecambe had both been told to find new clubs. It’s not easy for them to gel with new arrivals under those circumstances and it’s perfectly fair to ask whether the whole sale changes were needed. Did the former squad show anything extra when Cook arrived? Was that all on the players? Is there discord (or potential discord). between the remainers and the new arrivals?
Not all signings work out, yet that reality doesn’t bite with everyone. Our hopes hang on all of them, or the vast majority of them being a hit. There is good cause to have a guarded prognosis - that does not equate with us wishing Cook to fail (as any such conclusion would equate with the brainpower of the 3 amigos).
We all want us to succeed, and even if we do, when we do, questioning should always be part of the discussion. The best way for us to gel is to win.
As for Dozzell, I can’t foresee if he’ll become a hit at QPR or anywhere else but my fabric, or my beating heart (to borrow from Sheepy) wishes he would have had a proper chance to do it here. |
Ref your second paragraph, that's disgraceful and I am very sorry you had that from anyone let alone 3 people. I am very sorry you had to deal with that. |  |
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| Everything is awesome on 22:06 - Aug 16 with 2609 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Everything is awesome on 21:58 - Aug 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Ref your second paragraph, that's disgraceful and I am very sorry you had that from anyone let alone 3 people. I am very sorry you had to deal with that. |
Fortunately Moriaty’s post was a rather one-sided take on what actually happened
Proud to be English by Moriarty 9 Jul 2021 11:00In 1995, England came to Dublin to play a friendly. Big Jack was Ireland's manager. The game was abandoned after Ireland took the lead as English fans went on the rampage. Funny enough, one of the images from that night was a young child, this time a young boy, looking on in fear and shock at the mayhem being caused by English thugs unfolded. Big Jack was furious and was having a right go himself at those English fans.
That night saw the great and the ugly of England and English football collide on Irish soil. Big Jack, revered here, a sporting legend and thoroughly decent guy vs the cowardly thugs who also hailed from his shores. And it wasn't a minority of those supporters who indulged in the mayhem.
No question England has many honourable men and women, decent, upright, proud of a really likeable bunch of players and manager who have every chance of winning on Sunday. They are the polar opposite of those that can instantly quell an inclination to hope England win, such as elements of the English media , public figures like Priti Patel , some of the supporters and others, so bereft of integrity and decency. But then again, isn't if fair to say no nation can always offer clean hands?
There was a little clip doing some rounds here of a few exuberant (and harmless) English fans asking a few locals here how to sing "It's coming home" in Irish and then a few minutes later they're singing "Tiocfaidh ar la" with great gusto, pints aloft, English shirts on. IF only they knew.
Whatever will be sung on Sunday night as Monday, (and possibly your bonus bank holiday, draw near) one hopes that the decency prevails and that those who represent all that is right about England and English sport and football, will be the ones we can remember and that it is they who are at the forefront on Sunday.
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| Everything is awesome on 22:14 - Aug 16 with 2590 views | Ryorry |
| Everything is awesome on 21:58 - Aug 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Ref your second paragraph, that's disgraceful and I am very sorry you had that from anyone let alone 3 people. I am very sorry you had to deal with that. |
Just to say I remember that thread, have just checked it again, & what's been written about it today is a misrepresentation of it. The 3 people referred to are decent, regular posters who are still here.
People can go and check that out for themselves, & hopefully make their own minds up. I doubt Phil would appreciate a re-run of it.
Edit: Written before I'd seen C.Healey's post, with which I agree. When I wrote "what's been written about it today is a misrepresentation of it" I meant only by Moriarty, not Healey. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 22:31]
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| Everything is awesome on 22:15 - Aug 16 with 2588 views | Coastalblue |
I will preface this by saying I like Cook, I like the players that have come in and I think ultimately we'll succeed this season and quantify that by saying I mean playoffs, however
There really does seem to be a case of emperor's new clothes for some people. Cook hasn't had a great start, far from it and to pretend otherwise is ludicrous. There are some issues currently, which I'm sure he will address but it doesn't mean they aren't there. There are also mitigating circumstances, lots of them, some of them his own doing, some not.
Calling people out for pointing out where the current issues lie on a forum designed to be used for this purpose, alongside discussing chees of course does nobody any favours.
He's a good manager, he's not perfect, he will make mistakes, God willing he will succeed here and is being given every opportunity (and some) to ensure that he does, it's not guaranteed though. [Post edited 17 Aug 2021 0:38]
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