| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:01 - Aug 19 with 2428 views | Freddies_Ears |
The scariest thing about it is knowing that we - once again - have clear evidence of an impending crisis, but you know we will do little or nothing until it is far too late. |  | |  |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:03 - Aug 19 with 2390 views | giant_stow |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:01 - Aug 19 by Freddies_Ears |
The scariest thing about it is knowing that we - once again - have clear evidence of an impending crisis, but you know we will do little or nothing until it is far too late. |
So true. |  |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:07 - Aug 19 with 2362 views | Steve_M |
The FT article on the same theme is really interesting:
https://www.ft.com/content/49641651-e10a-45f6-a7cc-8b8c7b7a9710
The various studies do look at slightly different things though, vaccines remain highly beneficial at reducing serious cases but it does look like there is a need for booster shots. Also the adenovirus vaccine (AZ) continues triggering mRNA production whereas the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna) contain a set amount of mRNA so it might be beneficial to have a booster shot of a different vaccine type.
Infection + vaccine also seems to offer better levels of antibody response and thus protection.
I would also recommend this thread (and to follow the author if on twitter) because the vaccine efficacy is only one part of the route to Delta immunity (3rd tweet).
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:13 - Aug 19 with 2305 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:07 - Aug 19 by Steve_M |
The FT article on the same theme is really interesting:
https://www.ft.com/content/49641651-e10a-45f6-a7cc-8b8c7b7a9710
The various studies do look at slightly different things though, vaccines remain highly beneficial at reducing serious cases but it does look like there is a need for booster shots. Also the adenovirus vaccine (AZ) continues triggering mRNA production whereas the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna) contain a set amount of mRNA so it might be beneficial to have a booster shot of a different vaccine type.
Infection + vaccine also seems to offer better levels of antibody response and thus protection.
I would also recommend this thread (and to follow the author if on twitter) because the vaccine efficacy is only one part of the route to Delta immunity (3rd tweet).
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if vaccination allows us to achieve C with a relatively low death rate that's a good thing. i assume in the end C was the route by which things like the 1918 flu pandemic ended.
C was also part of the reason for ending the lockdown in july - time for C to kick in before the winter. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:15 - Aug 19 with 2282 views | giant_stow |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:07 - Aug 19 by Steve_M |
The FT article on the same theme is really interesting:
https://www.ft.com/content/49641651-e10a-45f6-a7cc-8b8c7b7a9710
The various studies do look at slightly different things though, vaccines remain highly beneficial at reducing serious cases but it does look like there is a need for booster shots. Also the adenovirus vaccine (AZ) continues triggering mRNA production whereas the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna) contain a set amount of mRNA so it might be beneficial to have a booster shot of a different vaccine type.
Infection + vaccine also seems to offer better levels of antibody response and thus protection.
I would also recommend this thread (and to follow the author if on twitter) because the vaccine efficacy is only one part of the route to Delta immunity (3rd tweet).
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Thanks mr - looks interesting, so I'll dive in. | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:20 - Aug 19 with 2248 views | pointofblue |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:01 - Aug 19 by Freddies_Ears |
The scariest thing about it is knowing that we - once again - have clear evidence of an impending crisis, but you know we will do little or nothing until it is far too late. |
The question is what should the response be to this? | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:34 - Aug 19 with 2207 views | tonybied |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:20 - Aug 19 by pointofblue |
The question is what should the response be to this? |
I thought one of the biggest breakthroughs with the invention of mRNA vaccines was that it was quick and easy to alter them for variants but I have not heard of a specific vaccine for the Delta variant yet. Am I right in what I though I'd heard about these vaccines or am I getting confused? (that wouldn't be a massive surprise as my brain doesn't function as well as it used to!) |  | | |
| Studies like this, that.... on 10:38 - Aug 19 with 2166 views | Bloots |
....make no mention of hospitalisations, ITU admittance or even deaths are (in my opinion) slightly disingenuous.
The UK average number of deaths (RIP) has remained below 100 despite the daily infections reaching 50,000 a day.
(as always I will point out that we continue to report deaths "with" covid, not "of" covid)
I think that "boosters" have always been on the cards and this merely confirms that they will be needed.
An announcement from the UK on this very subject is expected very shortly. |  |
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| Studies like this, that.... on 11:00 - Aug 19 with 2055 views | giant_stow |
| Studies like this, that.... on 10:38 - Aug 19 by Bloots |
....make no mention of hospitalisations, ITU admittance or even deaths are (in my opinion) slightly disingenuous.
The UK average number of deaths (RIP) has remained below 100 despite the daily infections reaching 50,000 a day.
(as always I will point out that we continue to report deaths "with" covid, not "of" covid)
I think that "boosters" have always been on the cards and this merely confirms that they will be needed.
An announcement from the UK on this very subject is expected very shortly. |
Always good to read a 'keep calm' post on this. | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 11:51 - Aug 19 with 1935 views | Guthrum |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:01 - Aug 19 by Freddies_Ears |
The scariest thing about it is knowing that we - once again - have clear evidence of an impending crisis, but you know we will do little or nothing until it is far too late. |
Tho our crisis in this instance has already been here for a couple of months. They're just hitting the up-slope of the Delta Variant spike which we reached in June/July. |  |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:25 - Aug 19 with 1848 views | giant_stow |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 11:51 - Aug 19 by Guthrum |
Tho our crisis in this instance has already been here for a couple of months. They're just hitting the up-slope of the Delta Variant spike which we reached in June/July. |
Not to argue, but it seems a bit more serious than that unless I have my numbers muddled (which is completely possible). THe article says they're getting "650 new cases daily per million people" which is way more than us innit? I thought we were around the 100 per million mark, or were last time I checked. | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:39 - Aug 19 with 1811 views | Guthrum |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:25 - Aug 19 by giant_stow |
Not to argue, but it seems a bit more serious than that unless I have my numbers muddled (which is completely possible). THe article says they're getting "650 new cases daily per million people" which is way more than us innit? I thought we were around the 100 per million mark, or were last time I checked. |
But those are, according to the article, coming from the same Delta variant of Covid as has been causing the infection spike in the UK in the last couple of months. If it had become a substanially different (e.g. more infectious) mutation, it would no longer be Delta.
It's the same version of the virus, so other factors must be causing the higher rates in Israel (weren't they doing single-dose vaccination at the beginning?). | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:43 - Aug 19 with 1795 views | giant_stow |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:39 - Aug 19 by Guthrum |
But those are, according to the article, coming from the same Delta variant of Covid as has been causing the infection spike in the UK in the last couple of months. If it had become a substanially different (e.g. more infectious) mutation, it would no longer be Delta.
It's the same version of the virus, so other factors must be causing the higher rates in Israel (weren't they doing single-dose vaccination at the beginning?). |
No idea about single doses at the beginning - I think they're worried that because Isrealis got the (pfizer) vaccine earlier than most other countries, so perhaps the other factor is that it's effectiveness wears off. | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:51 - Aug 19 with 1761 views | Mookamoo |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:43 - Aug 19 by giant_stow |
No idea about single doses at the beginning - I think they're worried that because Isrealis got the (pfizer) vaccine earlier than most other countries, so perhaps the other factor is that it's effectiveness wears off. |
Might have something to do with them being first out of the blocks and immunity is now on the way down - hence the rush to get the boosters out.
The original recommendation from Pfizer was there should be a 3 week gap between the first and second doses, which was based on evidence from the original (alpha) variant. The NHS have their own studies, partly based on the Delta and recommend the 'sweet spot' between first and second doses is between 8-12 weeks, which is why they currently have an 8 week gap between doses (although some CCGs are now recommending 6 weeks). |  | | |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:58 - Aug 19 with 1738 views | Guthrum |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:43 - Aug 19 by giant_stow |
No idea about single doses at the beginning - I think they're worried that because Isrealis got the (pfizer) vaccine earlier than most other countries, so perhaps the other factor is that it's effectiveness wears off. |
If the vaccine was no longer having any effect, hospitalisation and mortality rates would also have soared/be soaring. Which they aren't (Israel's reported daily death rates in August have varied from 4 to 19, mostly upper single figures or low teens). | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:59 - Aug 19 with 1733 views | Steve_M |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 10:13 - Aug 19 by lowhouseblue |
if vaccination allows us to achieve C with a relatively low death rate that's a good thing. i assume in the end C was the route by which things like the 1918 flu pandemic ended.
C was also part of the reason for ending the lockdown in july - time for C to kick in before the winter. |
That, plus the fact that the virus killed off upwards of 50 million people so those that it left probably had a degree of immunity. Some symptoms persisted it seems, not dissimilarly to long covid. | |
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| Studies like this, that.... on 13:08 - Aug 19 with 1672 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Studies like this, that.... on 10:38 - Aug 19 by Bloots |
....make no mention of hospitalisations, ITU admittance or even deaths are (in my opinion) slightly disingenuous.
The UK average number of deaths (RIP) has remained below 100 despite the daily infections reaching 50,000 a day.
(as always I will point out that we continue to report deaths "with" covid, not "of" covid)
I think that "boosters" have always been on the cards and this merely confirms that they will be needed.
An announcement from the UK on this very subject is expected very shortly. |
And a booster will definitely happen.
We are already seeing policies like this be put in place.
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 13:11 - Aug 19 with 1655 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 12:43 - Aug 19 by giant_stow |
No idea about single doses at the beginning - I think they're worried that because Isrealis got the (pfizer) vaccine earlier than most other countries, so perhaps the other factor is that it's effectiveness wears off. |
Effectiveness definitely wears off.
Also why it looks like the UK will propose a different vaccine for the booster than the one you had first time round. Studies appear to be showing it will give a greater immune response. | | | |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 14:58 - Aug 19 with 1459 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Bad covid news from Israel on 13:11 - Aug 19 by ElderGrizzly |
Effectiveness definitely wears off.
Also why it looks like the UK will propose a different vaccine for the booster than the one you had first time round. Studies appear to be showing it will give a greater immune response. |
Is that due to mutations in the virus rather than a decrease in immune response? Just a little curious as other vaccines tended to only need boosters after about 10 years didn't they? |  |
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| Studies like this, that.... on 15:01 - Aug 19 with 1448 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Studies like this, that.... on 10:38 - Aug 19 by Bloots |
....make no mention of hospitalisations, ITU admittance or even deaths are (in my opinion) slightly disingenuous.
The UK average number of deaths (RIP) has remained below 100 despite the daily infections reaching 50,000 a day.
(as always I will point out that we continue to report deaths "with" covid, not "of" covid)
I think that "boosters" have always been on the cards and this merely confirms that they will be needed.
An announcement from the UK on this very subject is expected very shortly. |
Whilst your third sentence is accurate and I can see the point behind it (would these people have died anyway and how much difference did contracting Covid actually make to their life expectancy?). However, there isn't really an alternative as Covid itself does not lead to death. It is the effects of it on the body that leads to any number of other causes of death. It is likely that in the vast majority of cases, people who have Covid and die would have had a longer life expectancy had they not had Covid. | |
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| Last week a study showed that.... on 15:15 - Aug 19 with 1413 views | Bloots |
| Studies like this, that.... on 15:01 - Aug 19 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Whilst your third sentence is accurate and I can see the point behind it (would these people have died anyway and how much difference did contracting Covid actually make to their life expectancy?). However, there isn't really an alternative as Covid itself does not lead to death. It is the effects of it on the body that leads to any number of other causes of death. It is likely that in the vast majority of cases, people who have Covid and die would have had a longer life expectancy had they not had Covid. |
...on average 11% of patients in hospital that had tested positive for covid, caught it whilst in hospital already.
In some hospitals the figure was as high as 25%.
I'm not drawing any conclusions or saying that the figures are hugely wrong, just saying that there are so many variables that the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
Plus of course this terrible habit of comparing countries is totally pointless when they all report figures differently. | |
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| Last week a study showed that.... on 15:18 - Aug 19 with 1389 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Last week a study showed that.... on 15:15 - Aug 19 by Bloots |
...on average 11% of patients in hospital that had tested positive for covid, caught it whilst in hospital already.
In some hospitals the figure was as high as 25%.
I'm not drawing any conclusions or saying that the figures are hugely wrong, just saying that there are so many variables that the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
Plus of course this terrible habit of comparing countries is totally pointless when they all report figures differently. |
Absolutely. Always look behind the statistics and never think they show the full picture without reliable expert analysis. | |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 17:29 - Aug 19 with 1237 views | Trequartista |
The same is happening in the USA but not in the UK yet which points to the bigger gap between doses we have giving us immunity for longer.
I’d like to know what’s happened to the previous claim that vaccines can be easily tweaked in a few weeks to target a particular variant. We don’t seem to hear about this now. I’m aware that is a few months to retest the safety of the tweaked vaccine but we are still giving out vaccines that were designed for a disease about 3 variants ago. With the delta variant completely dominant and several months old, I would hope we can get a tweaked delta vaccine for the booster shots, but as is quite common recently, the news trail on tweaked vaccines seems to have gone cold. |  |
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 19:49 - Aug 19 with 1077 views | ElderGrizzly |
Better news from Israel…
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| Bad covid news from Israel on 20:49 - Aug 19 with 968 views | GlasgowBlue |
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