| They're at it again on 12:24 - Aug 20 with 2485 views | meekreech |
Problem is that the financial wizard responsible for the running of the system has no regard for keeping the system viable so will probably hurriedly concede all the requests made. It is time that the mess called transport for London is brought under sane and sensible control by being removed from the London mayor’s office. |  |
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| They're at it again on 12:48 - Aug 20 with 2446 views | Zx1988 |
It's a vicious circle, with the Mayor's office essentially being in hock to TfL and the unions.
I generally support a workforce's right to strike in favour of better terms and conditions, but it's clear that tube drivers are spectacularly well remunerated, with a basic starting salary for a qualified driver of around £56,500. If the usual railway regulations and customs prevail, it's likely that there is also no obligation to work Sundays, with the Sunday service being staffed voluntarily by staff on an overtime rate.
Knowing they have the power to bring the capital to a standstill at the drop of a hat, they have the power to essentially dictate their terms and conditions, with the Mayor's office essentially powerless to take them on. | |
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| They're at it again on 13:23 - Aug 20 with 2395 views | Clapham_Junction |
Don't really see how this is extortion given that they aren't asking for more money. The dispute seems to be around the abolition of dedicated night tube driver posts and merging them into the general driver pool and concerns that people in day or night tube posts may end up being required to work at a time their post doesn't currently cover.
The Evening Standard isn't exactly the best source for unbiased and fully contextualised info on trade unions. |  | | |
| They're at it again on 13:57 - Aug 20 with 2340 views | HARRY10 |
extortion ?
where someone seeks to retain what they previously had
what an odd world some of you forelock tuggers live in | | | |
| They're at it again on 14:01 - Aug 20 with 2334 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 13:23 - Aug 20 by Clapham_Junction |
Don't really see how this is extortion given that they aren't asking for more money. The dispute seems to be around the abolition of dedicated night tube driver posts and merging them into the general driver pool and concerns that people in day or night tube posts may end up being required to work at a time their post doesn't currently cover.
The Evening Standard isn't exactly the best source for unbiased and fully contextualised info on trade unions. |
Thank you for the little lesson at the end, but I wasn't linking to the Standard for contextualized info - just the news story.
I provided the context myself.
They give workers' rights a bad name, and take money out of the pockets of often far less well paid people. |  |
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| They're at it again on 14:02 - Aug 20 with 2333 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 13:57 - Aug 20 by HARRY10 |
extortion ?
where someone seeks to retain what they previously had
what an odd world some of you forelock tuggers live in |
You tug your forelock to the union. I'll worry about a city and people in real need. [Post edited 20 Aug 2021 14:03]
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| They're at it again on 14:12 - Aug 20 with 2310 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| They're at it again on 14:02 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
You tug your forelock to the union. I'll worry about a city and people in real need. [Post edited 20 Aug 2021 14:03]
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The thing about train drivers, and pilots, and sea captains, is that they are responsible for getting people around safely, that's why the unions are strong in those areas, to stop unscrupulous employers from reducing safety levels in passenger transport.
It's one of the reasons why, in the UK at least, deaths per passenger mile are many times lower than individualised transport, such as cars and motorcycles... |  |
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| They're at it again on 14:18 - Aug 20 with 2294 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 14:12 - Aug 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
The thing about train drivers, and pilots, and sea captains, is that they are responsible for getting people around safely, that's why the unions are strong in those areas, to stop unscrupulous employers from reducing safety levels in passenger transport.
It's one of the reasons why, in the UK at least, deaths per passenger mile are many times lower than individualised transport, such as cars and motorcycles... |
That's a reasonable point, but doesn't excuse the behavior of train driving unions whose actions regularly push the cost of living up for less well off Londoners. I've no idea why they're heroes of the left when all they do is suck money out of the pockets of nurses, teachers, cleaners, policemen, firefighters etc... | |
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| They're at it again on 14:22 - Aug 20 with 2282 views | GlasgowBlue |
| They're at it again on 13:57 - Aug 20 by HARRY10 |
extortion ?
where someone seeks to retain what they previously had
what an odd world some of you forelock tuggers live in |
Yeah. Another bloody rightie!!! |  |
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| They're at it again on 14:30 - Aug 20 with 2263 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| They're at it again on 14:18 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
That's a reasonable point, but doesn't excuse the behavior of train driving unions whose actions regularly push the cost of living up for less well off Londoners. I've no idea why they're heroes of the left when all they do is suck money out of the pockets of nurses, teachers, cleaners, policemen, firefighters etc... |
That's an interesting interpretation... | |
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| They're at it again on 14:54 - Aug 20 with 2239 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 14:30 - Aug 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
That's an interesting interpretation... |
Fair enough - I realise no good leftie should ever question any union - I just can't help but think that this cause is now poison and hurts people in greater need. | |
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| They're at it again on 14:58 - Aug 20 with 2228 views | WD19 |
| They're at it again on 14:12 - Aug 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
The thing about train drivers, and pilots, and sea captains, is that they are responsible for getting people around safely, that's why the unions are strong in those areas, to stop unscrupulous employers from reducing safety levels in passenger transport.
It's one of the reasons why, in the UK at least, deaths per passenger mile are many times lower than individualised transport, such as cars and motorcycles... |
What is the death rate on the DLR? |  | | |
| They're at it again on 14:59 - Aug 20 with 2225 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| They're at it again on 14:54 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
Fair enough - I realise no good leftie should ever question any union - I just can't help but think that this cause is now poison and hurts people in greater need. |
What do you think the current dispute is about? |  |
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| They're at it again on 15:10 - Aug 20 with 2182 views | Herbivore |
| They're at it again on 14:18 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
That's a reasonable point, but doesn't excuse the behavior of train driving unions whose actions regularly push the cost of living up for less well off Londoners. I've no idea why they're heroes of the left when all they do is suck money out of the pockets of nurses, teachers, cleaners, policemen, firefighters etc... |
Maybe we don't all think it should be a race to the bottom, mate? |  |
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| They're at it again on 15:10 - Aug 20 with 2179 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| They're at it again on 14:58 - Aug 20 by WD19 |
What is the death rate on the DLR? |
Good point! I think even the Stansted Monorail has a very low death rate as well... | |
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| They're at it again on 15:14 - Aug 20 with 2167 views | Clapham_Junction |
| They're at it again on 14:18 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
That's a reasonable point, but doesn't excuse the behavior of train driving unions whose actions regularly push the cost of living up for less well off Londoners. I've no idea why they're heroes of the left when all they do is suck money out of the pockets of nurses, teachers, cleaners, policemen, firefighters etc... |
Given the costs of housing in London, I don't think wages of tube drivers are unreasonably high. The issue is more that other people are underpaid relative to the cost of living.
Perhaps some people respect them because they show what workers can achieve when they are highly unionised? This is probably why they're so despised by much of the press (or rather their owners). | | | |
| They're at it again on 15:49 - Aug 20 with 2119 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you earn between £50,000 and £100,000 annually, I would have thought a certain amount of flexibility should exist. I do not know all the details of this supposed strike but guess that it is avoidable with decent negotiators on both sides. This is 2021 after all. | | | |
| They're at it again on 16:12 - Aug 20 with 2087 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| They're at it again on 15:49 - Aug 20 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you earn between £50,000 and £100,000 annually, I would have thought a certain amount of flexibility should exist. I do not know all the details of this supposed strike but guess that it is avoidable with decent negotiators on both sides. This is 2021 after all. |
As we're talking incomes, how much flexibility should someone on circa £150,000 p.a. (plus expenses) display?
Enough to take and make a few phone calls whilst on holiday?
Or enough to not go on holiday at a critical time for their work area? | |
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| They're at it again on 16:17 - Aug 20 with 2072 views | Herbivore |
| They're at it again on 15:49 - Aug 20 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you earn between £50,000 and £100,000 annually, I would have thought a certain amount of flexibility should exist. I do not know all the details of this supposed strike but guess that it is avoidable with decent negotiators on both sides. This is 2021 after all. |
If you only earn £49,999 does that mean it's okay to be rigid and inflexible with your employer? | |
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| They're at it again on 17:28 - Aug 20 with 1987 views | giant_stow |
| They're at it again on 15:10 - Aug 20 by Herbivore |
Maybe we don't all think it should be a race to the bottom, mate? |
By that logic, next time we read about a CEO getting a huge pay rise, we should just congratulate them and work towards everyone being paid gazillions.
In the real world there's a limited pot - when one takes more, another loses.
I'm not up for a race to the bottom - I just object to special treatment for the elite few, at the cost of everyone else. | |
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| They're at it again on 17:40 - Aug 20 with 1970 views | Herbivore |
| They're at it again on 17:28 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
By that logic, next time we read about a CEO getting a huge pay rise, we should just congratulate them and work towards everyone being paid gazillions.
In the real world there's a limited pot - when one takes more, another loses.
I'm not up for a race to the bottom - I just object to special treatment for the elite few, at the cost of everyone else. |
Tube drivers aren't the elite few though, and that you think they are highlights what a grand job the government and press has done in brainwashing people to turn on their fellow working man rather than on the genuine elite classes. | |
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| They're at it again on 18:04 - Aug 20 with 1940 views | J2BLUE |
| They're at it again on 17:28 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
By that logic, next time we read about a CEO getting a huge pay rise, we should just congratulate them and work towards everyone being paid gazillions.
In the real world there's a limited pot - when one takes more, another loses.
I'm not up for a race to the bottom - I just object to special treatment for the elite few, at the cost of everyone else. |
What job do you do?
At first glance I have to say i'm siding with the drivers. Times are changing and we should support decent working rights for everyone. I was pleased to see millenials, a group I usually resent being part of for various reasons, refusing to go back to offices recently. Our entire approach to work life really needs a massive overhaul. |  |
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| They're at it again on 18:13 - Aug 20 with 1910 views | GlasgowBlue |
| They're at it again on 14:54 - Aug 20 by giant_stow |
Fair enough - I realise no good leftie should ever question any union - I just can't help but think that this cause is now poison and hurts people in greater need. |
You are wrong. Good leffties are quite happy to question the leader of the teachers union in Scotland when they dare to speak out against St Nicola.
You'll get the hang of how this works one day. | |
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| They're at it again on 18:39 - Aug 20 with 1860 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| They're at it again on 17:40 - Aug 20 by Herbivore |
Tube drivers aren't the elite few though, and that you think they are highlights what a grand job the government and press has done in brainwashing people to turn on their fellow working man rather than on the genuine elite classes. |
To so many poorly paid folk, those on minimum wage for example, the tube drivers ARE among the elite few. It has nothing to do with the press or brainwashing.
A working man in most peoples opinion is anyone that has to work to provide for their family - that is most of us (except me of course, I am retired after working 49 years!)
Please let us not have a throwback to the 1970's when unions held us all to ransom!
Oh and before you get too left wing with me, I accept the fact that without trade unions we would still be sending little boys up chimneys. I am not biased sufficiently though to think that this action is necessary. | | | |
| They're at it again on 19:07 - Aug 20 with 1820 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| They're at it again on 18:39 - Aug 20 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
To so many poorly paid folk, those on minimum wage for example, the tube drivers ARE among the elite few. It has nothing to do with the press or brainwashing.
A working man in most peoples opinion is anyone that has to work to provide for their family - that is most of us (except me of course, I am retired after working 49 years!)
Please let us not have a throwback to the 1970's when unions held us all to ransom!
Oh and before you get too left wing with me, I accept the fact that without trade unions we would still be sending little boys up chimneys. I am not biased sufficiently though to think that this action is necessary. |
15:49 today " I do not know all the details of this supposed strike" (I assume you meant proposed strike - damn auto-correct).
And yet you imply that you think the proposed action is unnecessary.
I'm not sure how you reached that latter conclusion without an understanding of the details unless you were already approaching the matter from a position of bias. | |
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