| how many loans is too many? 22:48 - Aug 30 with 1554 views | positivity |
we haven't had less than 4 since 2007-08, and the increase is not just an itfc thing.
it's more of a question of quality. as long as there's a reason for them (ie better than what we already have/better than we could otherwise attract/with a view to a permanent signing) i don't really see the issue.
all our current ones (and celina) would meet these criteria, which i don't think was the case with the vast majority of last year's crop. |  |
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:18 - Aug 31 with 1324 views | ArnieM |
Moan, moan, moan, moan moan! [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 8:18]
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:19 - Aug 31 with 1318 views | Herbivore |
Five in the summer window is too many, imo. Last season we ended up with six but four of those signed in January. We're not leaving ourselves much wiggle room to tweak the squad in January should we need to. |  |
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:21 - Aug 31 with 1314 views | HighgateBlue |
I must say, I don't know the ins and outs of whether we wanted a loan for Celina rather than a permanent, or whether his current club wanted a loan, and I don't know how long he has left on his current deal.
However, one positive of a loan might be that we can pay a loan fee to the parent club, and the parent club can continue to pay all or some of the wages. That benefits us in terms of the Salary Cost Management Protocol, as our wages would show up as lower than if we were paying no loan fee and shouldering a higher wage. Just a thought... |  | | |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:21 - Aug 31 with 1313 views | ITFC_Forever |
It's the way of modern football, however unpallatable that may be.
There is such a difference in wages and cost between the divisions, that loans are a necessary evil. |  |
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:24 - Aug 31 with 1299 views | chicoazul |
I don’t know but the loan of Barry now seems a bad call. As Herbs says it doesn’t give us much room to manoeuvre in Jan having used all our allocation up now.
We could also have 4 loans in the team in our next game- that’s at least one too many IMHO. |  |
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:33 - Aug 31 with 1284 views | Steve_M |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:24 - Aug 31 by chicoazul |
I don’t know but the loan of Barry now seems a bad call. As Herbs says it doesn’t give us much room to manoeuvre in Jan having used all our allocation up now.
We could also have 4 loans in the team in our next game- that’s at least one too many IMHO. |
Yeah, I think Barry will be the one to lose out from this signing. Hard to see him getting a match outside of the EFL Trophy and, had Villa wanted that, they could just have kept him. He's clearly talented but raw so wasn't likely to get many games as a starter.
Tend to agree with the thread though, loans are a part of modern football because the largest clubs have such big squads and everything else follows from that. It's encouraging that four of those on loan are players we would clearly want to sign if we got promoted but the fact that they are loans also reflects the fact that we are in the third division. |  |
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:43 - Aug 31 with 1264 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Three of the four we added in January last year added nothing to the squad and were worse that what we already had. Which has been a pattern for this club for a long time, mediocre loans that don't add very much.
If Cook wants to tinker in January then you would imagine that Barry may go back, or Aluko may be released, its also not outside the realms of possibility that we may have significant bids for players, particularly the likes of Woolfenden or Norwood may attract significant interest. I don't see that Donacien fits the Cook 'mould' either.
But to return to your original point, its about the quality of loan, not the quantity and this time the loans we have in, are all quality. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 8:48]
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:46 - Aug 31 with 1251 views | jas0999 |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:19 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Five in the summer window is too many, imo. Last season we ended up with six but four of those signed in January. We're not leaving ourselves much wiggle room to tweak the squad in January should we need to. |
I agree. The three we already had was enough. Bonne and Coulsen added quality and were good additions, with an exciting PL youngster also adding competition. | | | |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:48 - Aug 31 with 1241 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:33 - Aug 31 by Steve_M |
Yeah, I think Barry will be the one to lose out from this signing. Hard to see him getting a match outside of the EFL Trophy and, had Villa wanted that, they could just have kept him. He's clearly talented but raw so wasn't likely to get many games as a starter.
Tend to agree with the thread though, loans are a part of modern football because the largest clubs have such big squads and everything else follows from that. It's encouraging that four of those on loan are players we would clearly want to sign if we got promoted but the fact that they are loans also reflects the fact that we are in the third division. |
Indeed, for all the hand-wringing in recent years about loans having a few in the squad has been part and parcel of football outside the top division for some time now
The problem has been more the type of loans we’ve had IMO, really they should either be bringing in a level of quality that we otherwise wouldn’t be able to get or providing some filler as a stopgap in key areas. Celina certainly seems to tick the first box - whereas Barry as you highlight doesn’t seem to do either (which was the case before Celina too) and looks rather pointless! I guess the jury is out on the others although both Bonne and Coulson look promising so far and hopefully Walton will prove to be too [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 11:28]
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:49 - Aug 31 with 1231 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:46 - Aug 31 by jas0999 |
I agree. The three we already had was enough. Bonne and Coulsen added quality and were good additions, with an exciting PL youngster also adding competition. |
So Walton and Celina don't add quality? Are you mad? | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 08:59 - Aug 31 with 1201 views | Herbivore |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:43 - Aug 31 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Three of the four we added in January last year added nothing to the squad and were worse that what we already had. Which has been a pattern for this club for a long time, mediocre loans that don't add very much.
If Cook wants to tinker in January then you would imagine that Barry may go back, or Aluko may be released, its also not outside the realms of possibility that we may have significant bids for players, particularly the likes of Woolfenden or Norwood may attract significant interest. I don't see that Donacien fits the Cook 'mould' either.
But to return to your original point, its about the quality of loan, not the quantity and this time the loans we have in, are all quality. [Post edited 31 Aug 2021 8:48]
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing, not many people were saying at the time that the four loan signings we made in January wouldn't be any better than what we already had. On paper these look to be good signings, but Harrop had been decent for Preston in the Championship and was toss here. | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 09:10 - Aug 31 with 1170 views | positivity |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:19 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Five in the summer window is too many, imo. Last season we ended up with six but four of those signed in January. We're not leaving ourselves much wiggle room to tweak the squad in January should we need to. |
not sure that's quite the case with the flexibility.
there's usually a break clause, so we could send loanees back.
and, of course, there's all the usual january trading (including making loanees permanent if all agree, which could happen with walton), and a new squad can be named, so the wiggle room is still there. | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 09:21 - Aug 31 with 1139 views | Herbivore |
| how many loans is too many? on 09:10 - Aug 31 by positivity |
not sure that's quite the case with the flexibility.
there's usually a break clause, so we could send loanees back.
and, of course, there's all the usual january trading (including making loanees permanent if all agree, which could happen with walton), and a new squad can be named, so the wiggle room is still there. |
Although the wiggle room invovles having to send players back or sign them permanently which isn't necessarily ideal. Maxing out our loan signings in the summer window isn't ideal imo, and probably not what most of us were expecting from our summer window if we're being honest. | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 10:26 - Aug 31 with 1075 views | kizaitfc |
| how many loans is too many? on 08:19 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Five in the summer window is too many, imo. Last season we ended up with six but four of those signed in January. We're not leaving ourselves much wiggle room to tweak the squad in January should we need to. |
1. You can send loans back, so if tweaking needed I imagine that would be an option.
2. We have basically cleared out our whole squad, it was always going to be difficult to rebuild without loans.
3. I suspect a few of these loans are essentially trials/signings dependent on us getting promotion, it sounds like Celina chose for this to be a loan with a view to signing if we get promoted. And I think we can safely assume if we go up Bonne will be signing the very next day. | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 10:44 - Aug 31 with 1059 views | BlueOsterClub |
| how many loans is too many? on 10:26 - Aug 31 by kizaitfc |
1. You can send loans back, so if tweaking needed I imagine that would be an option.
2. We have basically cleared out our whole squad, it was always going to be difficult to rebuild without loans.
3. I suspect a few of these loans are essentially trials/signings dependent on us getting promotion, it sounds like Celina chose for this to be a loan with a view to signing if we get promoted. And I think we can safely assume if we go up Bonne will be signing the very next day. |
If Barry is not even going to make the 18 match day squad do you think Aston Villa would prefer to have him back to loan him out else where?
He would have been a OK/Good signing if we were not able to bring in the other players in that we have. Barry would have been a good permanent signing as he has great potential but as our objective is promotion as a loan signing he may not be the right fit now. | | | |
| how many loans is too many? on 10:51 - Aug 31 with 1032 views | kizaitfc |
| how many loans is too many? on 10:44 - Aug 31 by BlueOsterClub |
If Barry is not even going to make the 18 match day squad do you think Aston Villa would prefer to have him back to loan him out else where?
He would have been a OK/Good signing if we were not able to bring in the other players in that we have. Barry would have been a good permanent signing as he has great potential but as our objective is promotion as a loan signing he may not be the right fit now. |
Barry is an odd one, because he certainly has potential, I wonder if Cook is giving Fraser a bit of time to settle in before making a decision on whether he is his ideal no.10.
Similarly with wingers building relationships with the FBs, however with Celina coming in you'd think he jumps ahead of Barry and Chaplin on the pecking order of no.10 / wingers. | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 11:19 - Aug 31 with 1002 views | positivity |
| how many loans is too many? on 09:21 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
Although the wiggle room invovles having to send players back or sign them permanently which isn't necessarily ideal. Maxing out our loan signings in the summer window isn't ideal imo, and probably not what most of us were expecting from our summer window if we're being honest. |
i think many of us thought that the only way to get in players of the quality we were said to be after (championship players, basically) would be to get in loans.
i've been pleasantly surprised that we've been able to get in players of the calibre of harper/edwards/chaplin/edmundson on perms. | |
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| how many loans is too many? on 11:26 - Aug 31 with 986 views | Herbivore |
| how many loans is too many? on 11:19 - Aug 31 by positivity |
i think many of us thought that the only way to get in players of the quality we were said to be after (championship players, basically) would be to get in loans.
i've been pleasantly surprised that we've been able to get in players of the calibre of harper/edwards/chaplin/edmundson on perms. |
I don't remember this many loans being part of the plan and it runs rather counter to Cook's views on loanees when he first came in. But each to their own. | |
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