| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 00:35 - Sep 6 with 1085 views | factual_blue |
Feldwebel Trautmann?
Holder of both the Iron Cross and the OBE? |  |
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| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 07:18 - Sep 6 with 938 views | bluelagos |
Really enjoyed watching it. Little bit of poetic licence (as ever) given he fathered a young woman before he met and settled with his fiirst wife.
His Wiki entry says he had 2 further marriages and settled in Spain.
Portrayed as a gentleman which as sure he was, and must have been very difficult for all at a time when anti-german sentiment would have been very abundant.
My Dad told me how PoWs were brought into a church service (from field work) and he remembers seeing them and being surprised how similar looking thsy were, in contrast to the stories of 'The evil hun' which meant he expected a devil like person .
His wiki entry also mentions his late life when he opened up a little on witnessing some war time attrocities, something the film covered too.
Well worth a watch. |  |
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| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 10:13 - Sep 6 with 827 views | Ryorry |
| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 07:18 - Sep 6 by bluelagos |
Really enjoyed watching it. Little bit of poetic licence (as ever) given he fathered a young woman before he met and settled with his fiirst wife.
His Wiki entry says he had 2 further marriages and settled in Spain.
Portrayed as a gentleman which as sure he was, and must have been very difficult for all at a time when anti-german sentiment would have been very abundant.
My Dad told me how PoWs were brought into a church service (from field work) and he remembers seeing them and being surprised how similar looking thsy were, in contrast to the stories of 'The evil hun' which meant he expected a devil like person .
His wiki entry also mentions his late life when he opened up a little on witnessing some war time attrocities, something the film covered too.
Well worth a watch. |
You could see from the off that it was going to be a bit over-romanticized/over-simplified, and I'm guessing that's why it only got a 3 or 3.5 star rating.
Films like this do draw people in though, & often encourage them to look further into real lives via wiki or another I looked at, Groundhopper, which is good for those who haven't yet seen the film - no spoilers, just says there's a lot more to his real story than this. I also hadn't known about the post-war awards BT was given by both UK & Germany for his work & achievements in improving Anglo-German relations.
Also got to applaud the Manchester rabbi who wrote the open letter espousing forgiveness to the press - you felt had it not been for him, the acceptance BT got would have been a *lot* longer coming, or might never have happened if he'd felt he had to give up in Manchester & return to Germany.
One deeper aspect to it was particularly valuable I thought - the hints at how ordinary people are drawn into awful things as a result of peer-group pressure, being swept up by national fervour etc. Really nteresting story from your Dad, thank you. |  |
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| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 10:59 - Sep 6 with 778 views | Darth_Koont |
| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 10:13 - Sep 6 by Ryorry |
You could see from the off that it was going to be a bit over-romanticized/over-simplified, and I'm guessing that's why it only got a 3 or 3.5 star rating.
Films like this do draw people in though, & often encourage them to look further into real lives via wiki or another I looked at, Groundhopper, which is good for those who haven't yet seen the film - no spoilers, just says there's a lot more to his real story than this. I also hadn't known about the post-war awards BT was given by both UK & Germany for his work & achievements in improving Anglo-German relations.
Also got to applaud the Manchester rabbi who wrote the open letter espousing forgiveness to the press - you felt had it not been for him, the acceptance BT got would have been a *lot* longer coming, or might never have happened if he'd felt he had to give up in Manchester & return to Germany.
One deeper aspect to it was particularly valuable I thought - the hints at how ordinary people are drawn into awful things as a result of peer-group pressure, being swept up by national fervour etc. Really nteresting story from your Dad, thank you. |
Re: your last point, the Milgram experiment always stands out in my mind. Basically we’re hard-wired to follow almost any instructions unless we have sufficient doubt in the authority of those giving the orders.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Nazi Germany didn’t allow doubt. But in less extreme conditions, it still means we need to be very careful of dominant narratives and always encourage honest questioning and skepticism. Clearly that goes too far the other way with anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers etc. who often make the same mistake in reverse and create an overpowering narrative for themselves that they stop questioning. |  |
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| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 11:18 - Sep 6 with 756 views | itfcjoe |
| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 10:59 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
Re: your last point, the Milgram experiment always stands out in my mind. Basically we’re hard-wired to follow almost any instructions unless we have sufficient doubt in the authority of those giving the orders.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Nazi Germany didn’t allow doubt. But in less extreme conditions, it still means we need to be very careful of dominant narratives and always encourage honest questioning and skepticism. Clearly that goes too far the other way with anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers etc. who often make the same mistake in reverse and create an overpowering narrative for themselves that they stop questioning. |
And then when people find themselves in positions of authority only have to look at The Stamford Prison experiment to see how normal people act |  |
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| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 11:33 - Sep 6 with 721 views | Ryorry |
| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 10:59 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
Re: your last point, the Milgram experiment always stands out in my mind. Basically we’re hard-wired to follow almost any instructions unless we have sufficient doubt in the authority of those giving the orders.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Nazi Germany didn’t allow doubt. But in less extreme conditions, it still means we need to be very careful of dominant narratives and always encourage honest questioning and skepticism. Clearly that goes too far the other way with anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers etc. who often make the same mistake in reverse and create an overpowering narrative for themselves that they stop questioning. |
Yes, quite. Really disturbing/horrifying for several reasons - had heard of these tests through radio/TV docus.
Was unable to read all of the link in detail to the end as felt I was nearing 'chuck' levels! Same might apply to your book recommendation I'm afraid. | |
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| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 11:57 - Sep 6 with 668 views | Darth_Koont |
| Just been watching 'The Keeper' on BBC2 on 11:18 - Sep 6 by itfcjoe |
And then when people find themselves in positions of authority only have to look at The Stamford Prison experiment to see how normal people act |
Indeed. The Stanford Prison experiment even had the extra proof that it seems the researchers also abused their position of authority to take things too far.
We should accept our differences and flaws more readily, mainly because we are inherently flawed as humans. Particularly how we see reality and try and deal with it. | |
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