| The assistant manager debate 07:47 - Sep 12 with 2063 views | greyhound |
There's a couple of threads on here trying to pave the way to blame for yesterday and Iargely agree with points made. Players need to take some responsibility for woeful defending and a lack of clear leadership, while as fans many are right to question the coaching staff. What have they been doing, and are cooks mates and trusted circle influencing adequetly behind the scenes to create the correct psychological environment for players to thrive. Harper seems to dissappear, and it's quite clear Evans doesn't show the leadership qualities we would expect (I posted yesterday doubting the fact he wouldcontinue start games.)
But in the midst of all this it's clear that cook uses plan A, and when that's failing we do more of plan A, and in what seems to surprise him when that doesn't work we do plan A some more and critically evaluate how we fail afterwards before saying "we do hard work now and go again next time."
Im not sure I know of any other clubs at this level that don't carry an assistant manager. We're at a point in football where top clubs are hiring multiple assistants. I'm beginning to reflect and ask questions about cooks attitude to bekmg challenged on his ideology. His boys club of coaches around him will have the position of suggesting tweaks, but we lack a defensive leader in the coaching department and we clearly lack an assistant that can challenge the thought leadership of management at times of trouble.
Will an assistant manager change the course of the club? Single handedly no, but having someone connected tightly to the players with higher level leadership nous would go a long way to challenging Paul cooks own attitudes and instructions to the level where making an appointment now could save his own skin before the hole is dug to deep. A quick scan of twitter shows the cook out movement has attached its wheels. Some ownership and humble leadership could pave the way to showing a fan base that the need for additional ideas and direction is recognised.
Im not cook out yet, but I'm questioning someone that's been given every toy that he circled in the Argos catalogue but still can't make play time more fun.
And let's be clear, a win Tuesday won't be a remedy. We're now at a point where until we start stringing a run together we're not only no better than last season but we are worse. It's time to bolster the management setup and own the development and tactical ressiliance of this team of strong individuals. |  | | |  |
| The assistant manager debate on 08:24 - Sep 12 with 1983 views | 3_5_2 |
Agree with all of this.
I have said since day one, Cook is missing Richardson, who has got Wigan 2nd, with a large group of new players.
Cook stated at the fans forum that he felt he was experienced enough to do it on his own now, but all of his success has been with a number 2 in place. The coaching staff in place is, in my view, not experienced enough and smacks of a jolly boys outing. They won’t challenge him as they are on the gravy train, probably can’t believe their luck.
Sadly I think his own belief that he knows what he is doing may be his downfall. He has to get results and soon as the owners will not allow it to rumble on like ME did.
How did we get here so fast ? |  |
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| The assistant manager debate on 08:31 - Sep 12 with 1947 views | BondiBlue |
Football is a weird outlier as a hierarchical power structure in a world that has realised that collaboration and delegation that empowers subordinates is the way forwards. We are starting to look like the most extreme example of the weird outlier. | |
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| The assistant manager debate on 08:34 - Sep 12 with 1932 views | gordon |
For me a big red flag is Cook talking about the players passion, hunger, desire and aggression, after we got spanked because he set the team up wrong. |  | | |
| The assistant manager debate on 08:37 - Sep 12 with 1917 views | gordon |
| The assistant manager debate on 08:31 - Sep 12 by BondiBlue |
Football is a weird outlier as a hierarchical power structure in a world that has realised that collaboration and delegation that empowers subordinates is the way forwards. We are starting to look like the most extreme example of the weird outlier. |
This point absolutely - the absolute power still entrusted in football managers is daft. | | | |
| The assistant manager debate on 09:01 - Sep 12 with 1829 views | BondiBlue |
| The assistant manager debate on 08:24 - Sep 12 by 3_5_2 |
Agree with all of this.
I have said since day one, Cook is missing Richardson, who has got Wigan 2nd, with a large group of new players.
Cook stated at the fans forum that he felt he was experienced enough to do it on his own now, but all of his success has been with a number 2 in place. The coaching staff in place is, in my view, not experienced enough and smacks of a jolly boys outing. They won’t challenge him as they are on the gravy train, probably can’t believe their luck.
Sadly I think his own belief that he knows what he is doing may be his downfall. He has to get results and soon as the owners will not allow it to rumble on like ME did.
How did we get here so fast ? |
I suppose it is possible that he hired craney and roberts because he knows them well enough to listen to them but it's surely more likely that they'll be yes men. | |
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| The assistant manager debate on 14:26 - Sep 13 with 1638 views | 3_5_2 |
| The assistant manager debate on 09:01 - Sep 12 by BondiBlue |
I suppose it is possible that he hired craney and roberts because he knows them well enough to listen to them but it's surely more likely that they'll be yes men. |
I think that is very likely, plus neither are what you would call experienced coaches
At 2-4 down and 32 minutes to go, I looked at him and he looked totally bereft of ideas and the subs were bizarre to say the least. 4-1-4-1 still leaves one up top, Burns supply had been cut off and the players needed some help | |
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| The assistant manager debate on 14:33 - Sep 13 with 1602 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The assistant manager debate on 08:31 - Sep 12 by BondiBlue |
Football is a weird outlier as a hierarchical power structure in a world that has realised that collaboration and delegation that empowers subordinates is the way forwards. We are starting to look like the most extreme example of the weird outlier. |
I'm not sure it is in the main (or at least it's been changing over the last 6-7 years). The FA's elite performance training stuff* that most clubs follow now places the emphasis on empowering the players and involving them much more in the whole process. Anyone under the age of about 24/25 will have come through quite a different apprenticeship than players in previous generations. That's not to say some managers aren't still old school in their ways or acossional behaviours, but I believe it's much more collaborative these days.
We do look old school from the outside though, agreed there. We could well be an historical outlier.
(I can't remember the exact terminology, but it's all the coaching frameworks stuff that runs through development football. I attended a leadership briefing with Steve Cooper (ex-Swaans 7 England U17 manager) when he was talking about how all this works now and how much players are brought into the decision making process - fascinating stuff actually). [Post edited 13 Sep 2021 14:48]
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| The assistant manager debate on 15:09 - Sep 13 with 1510 views | bluelady |
100 per cent agree with this. Managers need that person they can rely on to bounce ideas off, to be brutally honest and tell them when they have got things wrong, and just to give that second influential critical view. I think saying he doesn't need a number 2 is totally arrogant! Added to that the people he did bring in are all quiet inexperienced..... and i do believe too many cooks (pardon the pun) can ruin the broth! Having a manager and a 100% reliable number 2 i think is critical. |  | | |
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| The assistant manager debate on 15:13 - Sep 13 with 1506 views | PhilTWTD |
| The assistant manager debate on 08:24 - Sep 12 by 3_5_2 |
Agree with all of this.
I have said since day one, Cook is missing Richardson, who has got Wigan 2nd, with a large group of new players.
Cook stated at the fans forum that he felt he was experienced enough to do it on his own now, but all of his success has been with a number 2 in place. The coaching staff in place is, in my view, not experienced enough and smacks of a jolly boys outing. They won’t challenge him as they are on the gravy train, probably can’t believe their luck.
Sadly I think his own belief that he knows what he is doing may be his downfall. He has to get results and soon as the owners will not allow it to rumble on like ME did.
How did we get here so fast ? |
Cook has had success without Richardson at Sligo Rovers - our Irish posters may be able to say whether he had a prominent number two - and Richardson was every bit as much of a rookie as Roberts and probably more so than Jeffers when they first worked together at Accrington, as were his coaches at Wigan.
He does seem to like working with inexperienced staff, although having said that a step up to first-team coach at this level seems an obvious next step for Jeffers from Everton's U23s.
I know he did consider naming an assistant, Kieron and Noel Hunt were both in the frame, but opted instead for two first-team coaches. Whether they're treated much differently or have less of an influence from an assistant I'm not sure. |  | | |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:21 - Sep 13 with 1448 views | itfcjoe |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:13 - Sep 13 by PhilTWTD |
Cook has had success without Richardson at Sligo Rovers - our Irish posters may be able to say whether he had a prominent number two - and Richardson was every bit as much of a rookie as Roberts and probably more so than Jeffers when they first worked together at Accrington, as were his coaches at Wigan.
He does seem to like working with inexperienced staff, although having said that a step up to first-team coach at this level seems an obvious next step for Jeffers from Everton's U23s.
I know he did consider naming an assistant, Kieron and Noel Hunt were both in the frame, but opted instead for two first-team coaches. Whether they're treated much differently or have less of an influence from an assistant I'm not sure. |
I don't think that is correct re Richardson compared to Roberts. Richardson had been appointed interim manager by Accrington, was 32, had completed his pro licence, was working on a physiotherapy degree (and was a trained social worker).
The fact at 37 Roberts hasn't done any badges is pretty telling with regards to seriousness of seeing this as a career |  |
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| The assistant manager debate on 15:24 - Sep 13 with 1420 views | Metal_Hacker |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:13 - Sep 13 by PhilTWTD |
Cook has had success without Richardson at Sligo Rovers - our Irish posters may be able to say whether he had a prominent number two - and Richardson was every bit as much of a rookie as Roberts and probably more so than Jeffers when they first worked together at Accrington, as were his coaches at Wigan.
He does seem to like working with inexperienced staff, although having said that a step up to first-team coach at this level seems an obvious next step for Jeffers from Everton's U23s.
I know he did consider naming an assistant, Kieron and Noel Hunt were both in the frame, but opted instead for two first-team coaches. Whether they're treated much differently or have less of an influence from an assistant I'm not sure. |
I think fundamentally whether "THAT" person is called an "Assistant" or "First Team Coach" is immaterial at this juncture
Seems to me that perhaps PC isn't open to any advise from others within the coaching circle regardless and if he is getting and taking the advise , clearly the advise is wrong up to this point as well
It's great having back up and sound boards but if they're also wrong or aren't being used - it all ends with the very same result
Personally I think the long and short of it depends on whether the individual in question feels as though they want to take the help from others with greater knowledge or even just with a plan B |  |
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| The assistant manager debate on 15:35 - Sep 13 with 1381 views | PhilTWTD |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:21 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
I don't think that is correct re Richardson compared to Roberts. Richardson had been appointed interim manager by Accrington, was 32, had completed his pro licence, was working on a physiotherapy degree (and was a trained social worker).
The fact at 37 Roberts hasn't done any badges is pretty telling with regards to seriousness of seeing this as a career |
I didn't realise he'd done his badges at that point, although this suggests he completed it this year: https://thebootroom.thefa.com/about/news/uefa-pro-licence-graduates-celebrate-th
I thought he was appointed caretaker for one match as a senior player ahead of Cook being appointed at Accrington.
Maybe better prepared than Roberts perhaps, but still not an experienced figure at that point, which was what I was really saying, less so than Jeffers is now given his years at Everton, I'd argue. | | | |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:37 - Sep 13 with 1371 views | monty_radio |
| The assistant manager debate on 09:01 - Sep 12 by BondiBlue |
I suppose it is possible that he hired craney and roberts because he knows them well enough to listen to them but it's surely more likely that they'll be yes men. |
While I agree with the general thrust of these arguments being "yes men" is probably not quite where it's at. They are beginners brought in by the jovial but stern headteacher. Standing before a baying and booing crowd is probably not the time to bring your sixpennorth to his party - at least not until you have forged that pathway over time.
Some may turn out to be "yes men", others not. Cook trusting them to get on on their own at Playford Rd with a bag of footballs in hand is not the same as allowing them to suggest that, for instance, we reshape to a 4-4-2 at a particular moment in a live and losing game. All his responses to questions he doesn't like, even before a ball was kicked, suggest that you would need time to gain his trust and full confidence to be permitted match-altering tips from the touchline.. | |
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| The assistant manager debate on 15:39 - Sep 13 with 1354 views | PhilTWTD |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:24 - Sep 13 by Metal_Hacker |
I think fundamentally whether "THAT" person is called an "Assistant" or "First Team Coach" is immaterial at this juncture
Seems to me that perhaps PC isn't open to any advise from others within the coaching circle regardless and if he is getting and taking the advise , clearly the advise is wrong up to this point as well
It's great having back up and sound boards but if they're also wrong or aren't being used - it all ends with the very same result
Personally I think the long and short of it depends on whether the individual in question feels as though they want to take the help from others with greater knowledge or even just with a plan B |
The first bit is along the lines of what I mean. I doubt he's changed his approach whether that's more or less collaborative, from what I've heard it's more the latter. | | | |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:46 - Sep 13 with 1320 views | itfcjoe |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:35 - Sep 13 by PhilTWTD |
I didn't realise he'd done his badges at that point, although this suggests he completed it this year: https://thebootroom.thefa.com/about/news/uefa-pro-licence-graduates-celebrate-th
I thought he was appointed caretaker for one match as a senior player ahead of Cook being appointed at Accrington.
Maybe better prepared than Roberts perhaps, but still not an experienced figure at that point, which was what I was really saying, less so than Jeffers is now given his years at Everton, I'd argue. |
I'd read (link below) that he had done 'all his badges' but guess that must have been up to A licence
https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/ingredients-all-there-for-le
So whilst he may not have been an experienced figure, he was someone committing himself to coaching and the journey that entailed.......and to be blunt you'd expect the 2nd in command at Ipswich Town with a ridiculous budget to be of a fair better quality than at Accrington who were barely more than part time at this basis.
Jeffers has a decent enough pedigree, but to be the most experienced of the coaching team at what is being set up and treated like a Championship club? | |
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| The assistant manager debate on 15:54 - Sep 13 with 1272 views | PhilTWTD |
| The assistant manager debate on 15:46 - Sep 13 by itfcjoe |
I'd read (link below) that he had done 'all his badges' but guess that must have been up to A licence
https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/ingredients-all-there-for-le
So whilst he may not have been an experienced figure, he was someone committing himself to coaching and the journey that entailed.......and to be blunt you'd expect the 2nd in command at Ipswich Town with a ridiculous budget to be of a fair better quality than at Accrington who were barely more than part time at this basis.
Jeffers has a decent enough pedigree, but to be the most experienced of the coaching team at what is being set up and treated like a Championship club? |
Yes, I agree, he had set himself up for a coaching career more than Roberts without a doubt, but the point I was making was that PC does seem to have a habit of working with relatively inexperienced coaches, Anthony Barry at Wigan as well. Both more comparable with Jeffers than Roberts though.
I see what you're saying and to some extent agree, although Premier League U23s coaches these days seem to be treated as more senior figures than reserves bosses would have been a few years back.
I heard a while ago that an U23s coach from a Premier League club was in the running for a decent-sized League One club's manager's job but would have had to take a significant pay cut to take the job, which eventually went to someone else. If I remember rightly it was Blackpool and a different U23s coach than eventually got it. | | | |
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