| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans 19:08 - Sep 17 with 763 views | NthQldITFC |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58600723
If this plays out as suggested, we really must be the most idiotic, suicidal life-form which has ever existed, lemmings notwithstanding. What worries me is that there seems to be less and less discussion about climate change as the news gets worse and worse, as if we have given up on behalf of our children. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 19:31 - Sep 17 with 728 views | J2BLUE |
Almost as stupid as yesterday's headline of the big energy companies suing the governments of the world for their green policies. |  |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 19:51 - Sep 17 with 705 views | DanTheMan |
It's fine though, we've got a plan or something. Everyone carry on.
Also China or something. |  |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 20:52 - Sep 17 with 672 views | GlasgowBlue |
Is there less discussion? Sky News has a daily Climate change show at peak time. |  |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 23:33 - Sep 17 with 599 views | Bluedicea |
It's human intelligence that's the problem.
All other species reach an equilibrium within their ecosystem, humans with bigger brains stepped outside this.
People in very general terms are reluctant to changes, especially negative changes like feeling they are losing something, because it's an attack on the ID, the sense of self, this is why most people will say they care but do nothing to change their lifestyles. They have to be cajoled and encouraged into being more self responsible, this unfortunately usually takes years, decades.
The other problem is no matter what we do, we are still going to destroy the planet if we don't try to curb our population, the current population growth is unsustainable.
The so called green energies aren't really that much better than the current alternatives, they are still are doing massive damage to ecosystems.
Hydroelectric dams, interupt many fish spawning populations, stop the nutrient rich sediments from reaching the seas, which reduces wildlife in estuaries that have been dammed by up to 50% .It's also contributing to the faster erosion of coasts as all that sand is no longer being washed down.
Wind farms have been known to reduce the bird and bat populations by 40% in most areas they are installed.
Solar (and wind) are heavily reliant on rare earth metals and for that we need more mines, where the largest deposits left now are pretty much all in environmentally protected areas or will require lots of destruction to the local ecosystems to retrieve so we can fuel our green revolution.
So yeah because we all want to live comfortably, the planet has to die. |  |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 06:00 - Sep 18 with 529 views | solomon |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 20:52 - Sep 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Is there less discussion? Sky News has a daily Climate change show at peak time. |
Are people listening and acting on it ? The show is actually quite good. |  | | |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 06:48 - Sep 18 with 515 views | solomon |
It doesn’t help when all the government turn up for the cabinet re shuffle in , you guessed it, Petrol or diesel powered cars.
We have the same attitude right now at work, the board are adamant we go for net zero, the group assigned to achieve this have met with constant blockers from said board (particularly from board members who refuse to have their new company vehicles electric or even hybrid) but still persist in claiming net zero is vitally important to our future. That’s the problem in a nutshell in our wider society, an attitude of we will worry about that when we have to later on, for now we will just make futile gestures. I can’t help but think we are wasting vital time right now. | | | |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:10 - Sep 18 with 480 views | NthQldITFC |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 20:52 - Sep 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Is there less discussion? Sky News has a daily Climate change show at peak time. |
I didn't know about that, thanks, will try to give it a look. But it just seems to me that information such as the link above is very quickly brushed under the carpet at the moment. It is clearly by far the most important issue facing us, and we seem to be too scared to look at it face on.
Perhaps it is the case that we kind of realise en masse that without population reduction, as Bluedicea says, there is no realistic solution, and population reduction is unlikely to happen voluntarily, worldwide in any useful timeframe. [Post edited 18 Sep 2021 8:13]
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| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:24 - Sep 18 with 467 views | DanTheMan |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 23:33 - Sep 17 by Bluedicea |
It's human intelligence that's the problem.
All other species reach an equilibrium within their ecosystem, humans with bigger brains stepped outside this.
People in very general terms are reluctant to changes, especially negative changes like feeling they are losing something, because it's an attack on the ID, the sense of self, this is why most people will say they care but do nothing to change their lifestyles. They have to be cajoled and encouraged into being more self responsible, this unfortunately usually takes years, decades.
The other problem is no matter what we do, we are still going to destroy the planet if we don't try to curb our population, the current population growth is unsustainable.
The so called green energies aren't really that much better than the current alternatives, they are still are doing massive damage to ecosystems.
Hydroelectric dams, interupt many fish spawning populations, stop the nutrient rich sediments from reaching the seas, which reduces wildlife in estuaries that have been dammed by up to 50% .It's also contributing to the faster erosion of coasts as all that sand is no longer being washed down.
Wind farms have been known to reduce the bird and bat populations by 40% in most areas they are installed.
Solar (and wind) are heavily reliant on rare earth metals and for that we need more mines, where the largest deposits left now are pretty much all in environmentally protected areas or will require lots of destruction to the local ecosystems to retrieve so we can fuel our green revolution.
So yeah because we all want to live comfortably, the planet has to die. |
I agree with parts of this but not others.
I definitely think you are right that some people are unwilling to change their lifestyle. I think others, particularly younger people, will be more willing than those fully set in their ways.
Overpopulation, in my mind, is not something we need to worry about right now. As far as I'm aware most scientists (it's been a while since I've looked this up so it may have changed) think that the world population will start stabilising towards to end of this century. Obviously we cannot have indefinite growth but the issue of climate change is not caused by the amount of people but the amount of overconsumption.
As for saying green energies are not better than their current alternatives, I thoroughly disagree. I'm not saying the alternatives are by any means perfect but continuing to use fossil fuels will damage the habitability of the planet significantly, whilst causing untold environmental damage. As bad as mining rare earth metals is, it pales in comparison.
I'd need to see some links to sources for the hydro dams and wind farms, but I cannot imagine these issues are insurmountable. [Post edited 18 Sep 2021 8:51]
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:50 - Sep 18 with 447 views | solomon |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:24 - Sep 18 by DanTheMan |
I agree with parts of this but not others.
I definitely think you are right that some people are unwilling to change their lifestyle. I think others, particularly younger people, will be more willing than those fully set in their ways.
Overpopulation, in my mind, is not something we need to worry about right now. As far as I'm aware most scientists (it's been a while since I've looked this up so it may have changed) think that the world population will start stabilising towards to end of this century. Obviously we cannot have indefinite growth but the issue of climate change is not caused by the amount of people but the amount of overconsumption.
As for saying green energies are not better than their current alternatives, I thoroughly disagree. I'm not saying the alternatives are by any means perfect but continuing to use fossil fuels will damage the habitability of the planet significantly, whilst causing untold environmental damage. As bad as mining rare earth metals is, it pales in comparison.
I'd need to see some links to sources for the hydro dams and wind farms, but I cannot imagine these issues are insurmountable. [Post edited 18 Sep 2021 8:51]
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In the words of Dave Angel,
The worlds Turning and we ain’t learning | | | |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:56 - Sep 18 with 439 views | WeWereZombies |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 23:33 - Sep 17 by Bluedicea |
It's human intelligence that's the problem.
All other species reach an equilibrium within their ecosystem, humans with bigger brains stepped outside this.
People in very general terms are reluctant to changes, especially negative changes like feeling they are losing something, because it's an attack on the ID, the sense of self, this is why most people will say they care but do nothing to change their lifestyles. They have to be cajoled and encouraged into being more self responsible, this unfortunately usually takes years, decades.
The other problem is no matter what we do, we are still going to destroy the planet if we don't try to curb our population, the current population growth is unsustainable.
The so called green energies aren't really that much better than the current alternatives, they are still are doing massive damage to ecosystems.
Hydroelectric dams, interupt many fish spawning populations, stop the nutrient rich sediments from reaching the seas, which reduces wildlife in estuaries that have been dammed by up to 50% .It's also contributing to the faster erosion of coasts as all that sand is no longer being washed down.
Wind farms have been known to reduce the bird and bat populations by 40% in most areas they are installed.
Solar (and wind) are heavily reliant on rare earth metals and for that we need more mines, where the largest deposits left now are pretty much all in environmentally protected areas or will require lots of destruction to the local ecosystems to retrieve so we can fuel our green revolution.
So yeah because we all want to live comfortably, the planet has to die. |
There have been at least five mass extinctions since Earth came into being, some say that we are in the middle of a new one and that it is caused by the proliferation of human activity, with the result that many known and probably many unknown species are obliterated.
Human beings, no matter how much and how sophisticated our synthesis of materials and ideas changes this Earth, are part of nature. So our intelligence is a problem for other species but also completely natural, so I suggest that the issue is not our intelligence but how we use it.
Similarly I see the increase in the number of human beings on this planet not as a problem per se but certainly different from other animals who usually occur in small numbers and require a large range. We have the ability to live in a much smaller space than, say, a leopard and to do so with a lower impact because we can, for example rely on potatoes for a good proportion of our diet and be responsible for growing enough potatoes on a patch of ground that is less than an acre to sustain us (providing we practice a modicum of crop rotation and guard against blight.)
So why should we in the United Kingdom with our lower birth rate rail against, say, Ethiopia with a population set to double within the next thirty years? Some of that population growth is down to longer life spans, would we deny healthcare to Ethiopians? Some of that population growth is down to better farming practices and better sharing of food resources around the nation, should we deny Ethiopians more and better food?
So, enlightening as your post is, may I suggest we do have a way forward and that it can involve us having a better life. Just not an easier, more indolent and more consumerist life - and I don't think any of us really want that but we get spoon fed silly ideas to such an extent that we give in and waddle over to the waffle house (or use our smartphones to get waffles delivered.) A better life starts with the realisation that we never really own anything, we just look after it for a while. As the saying goes 'you can't take it with you' and as one of Marcus Aurelius quotes says (in translation) 'judge not a man by the fortune he leaves but by how he uses his fortune when he is alive.'
In summary, human beings at the moment are the dominant species of Earth. Our best prospect for remaining so, and not becoming a perishing species that provides fodder for rats and insects, is to be custodians of all other life. Sadly, this means we have to be judgemental and perceptive in assessing other human beings so that we support those who are likely to be good custodians and give those who are not so likely the bare minimum of attention. |  |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 09:01 - Sep 18 with 434 views | pointofblue |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:10 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
I didn't know about that, thanks, will try to give it a look. But it just seems to me that information such as the link above is very quickly brushed under the carpet at the moment. It is clearly by far the most important issue facing us, and we seem to be too scared to look at it face on.
Perhaps it is the case that we kind of realise en masse that without population reduction, as Bluedicea says, there is no realistic solution, and population reduction is unlikely to happen voluntarily, worldwide in any useful timeframe. [Post edited 18 Sep 2021 8:13]
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I think it’s brushed under the carpet by so many because it’s a sledgehammer in terms of the issues but very little discussion in terms of the solutions. It reminds me of what an old manager used to say, “don’t come to me with just a problem but let me know of a possible way to solve it”; I’ve seen so many articles on the rise of global temperature but very few on how it can be negated. Yes, some countries have “plans” but others have not - surely the latter in particular could do with pressure via guidance on how it can be done?
Also, the key to any change is efficiency and economic viability. If the damaging ways are cheaper and complete the required tasks quicker, it is human nature not to change to something which is more expensive and slower. |  |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 16:14 - Sep 18 with 381 views | Bluedicea |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:24 - Sep 18 by DanTheMan |
I agree with parts of this but not others.
I definitely think you are right that some people are unwilling to change their lifestyle. I think others, particularly younger people, will be more willing than those fully set in their ways.
Overpopulation, in my mind, is not something we need to worry about right now. As far as I'm aware most scientists (it's been a while since I've looked this up so it may have changed) think that the world population will start stabilising towards to end of this century. Obviously we cannot have indefinite growth but the issue of climate change is not caused by the amount of people but the amount of overconsumption.
As for saying green energies are not better than their current alternatives, I thoroughly disagree. I'm not saying the alternatives are by any means perfect but continuing to use fossil fuels will damage the habitability of the planet significantly, whilst causing untold environmental damage. As bad as mining rare earth metals is, it pales in comparison.
I'd need to see some links to sources for the hydro dams and wind farms, but I cannot imagine these issues are insurmountable. [Post edited 18 Sep 2021 8:51]
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The current estimates are we will hit 9 billion humans by 2050, the earth can only support 10 billion on current farming methods.
That's why it takes years or decades, you change the youth through teaching them, they then teach their kids and it sticks more, each decade year group.
I never said the current green energies were as bad as fossil fuels, just slightly better because they still do massive damage only in different ways more locally than globally, which we will only realise after it's gone past a certain point, just like everything else, we observe the consequences years after the actions have taken place.
The biggest issue is we still don't fully understand how ecosystems interconnect with each other and why some things are more important.
The stuff about the hydroelectric and other green energy was from a National Geographic documentary recorded a few years ago, I rewatched a few weeks back as it was on tv.
There is hope, the new nuclear fusion generators we, the French and US are developing would provide clean energy, 20 -25 years before the first could potentially come online. It's not sustainable yet, but it's been proven to work in lab conditions. The upside no nuclear waste or fallout in failure, downside noone knows yet but playing with a plasma as hot as the sun will have some unintended consequences, everything does. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 16:46 - Sep 18 with 360 views | Bluedicea |
| Climate change: UN warning over nations' climate plans on 08:56 - Sep 18 by WeWereZombies |
There have been at least five mass extinctions since Earth came into being, some say that we are in the middle of a new one and that it is caused by the proliferation of human activity, with the result that many known and probably many unknown species are obliterated.
Human beings, no matter how much and how sophisticated our synthesis of materials and ideas changes this Earth, are part of nature. So our intelligence is a problem for other species but also completely natural, so I suggest that the issue is not our intelligence but how we use it.
Similarly I see the increase in the number of human beings on this planet not as a problem per se but certainly different from other animals who usually occur in small numbers and require a large range. We have the ability to live in a much smaller space than, say, a leopard and to do so with a lower impact because we can, for example rely on potatoes for a good proportion of our diet and be responsible for growing enough potatoes on a patch of ground that is less than an acre to sustain us (providing we practice a modicum of crop rotation and guard against blight.)
So why should we in the United Kingdom with our lower birth rate rail against, say, Ethiopia with a population set to double within the next thirty years? Some of that population growth is down to longer life spans, would we deny healthcare to Ethiopians? Some of that population growth is down to better farming practices and better sharing of food resources around the nation, should we deny Ethiopians more and better food?
So, enlightening as your post is, may I suggest we do have a way forward and that it can involve us having a better life. Just not an easier, more indolent and more consumerist life - and I don't think any of us really want that but we get spoon fed silly ideas to such an extent that we give in and waddle over to the waffle house (or use our smartphones to get waffles delivered.) A better life starts with the realisation that we never really own anything, we just look after it for a while. As the saying goes 'you can't take it with you' and as one of Marcus Aurelius quotes says (in translation) 'judge not a man by the fortune he leaves but by how he uses his fortune when he is alive.'
In summary, human beings at the moment are the dominant species of Earth. Our best prospect for remaining so, and not becoming a perishing species that provides fodder for rats and insects, is to be custodians of all other life. Sadly, this means we have to be judgemental and perceptive in assessing other human beings so that we support those who are likely to be good custodians and give those who are not so likely the bare minimum of attention. |
I agree with you. The intelligence we have has mostly been used in selfish destructive ways in the past, hopefully we can focus more on using it for more ecologically beneficial ways in the future.
It's a question I ask myself a lot. War and disease used to keep all human populations in check. With better access to medical help and better farming practices, the world's population soared. But none of us understood the global ramifications of this, until the last 25 years or so.
In the last 50 years over 500 animal species have become extinct and 20,000 are verging on it, in humans we would call that genocide. This is all down to human beings destroying habitats so they can have a place to live and grow more food.
Did I agree with China's 1 child policy, no. Do I agree with limiting growth in other countries, no. But I'm intelligent enough to understand that we as humans have to come together to put some sort of limits on the whole of us, before it ends so very badly for the majority of humans and animals and personally I'd rather have tthat discussion now, than in 30 years time when we pass the no return point.
Some people enjoy their comfortable lives, so become ostriches, bury their heads in the sand and say it's not an issue. Some of us though, want to make the whole world a better place for all humans and all animals so are willing to make changes to our lives and have discussions to try to find solutions. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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