| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain 08:28 - Sep 19 with 5771 views | noggin |
Why is it so expensive? That is crazy prices. |  |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 08:52 - Sep 19 with 3240 views | Keno |
If only we had different local sources of oil and gas and were able harass wind and wave power to create our own cheaper energy supplies |  |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:13 - Sep 19 with 3180 views | Basuco |
It is one of the benefits of a privatised utility providers, as a private company they can charge what they like, it is all about profit and dividends payments (at 20% tax) rather than public service. |  | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:19 - Sep 19 with 3143 views | chicoazul |
You don’t live in Britain? |  |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:26 - Sep 19 with 3119 views | Leaky |
Because the price of wind has gone through the roof. |  | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:29 - Sep 19 with 3109 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:26 - Sep 19 by Leaky |
Because the price of wind has gone through the roof. |
Completely off the (Beaufort) scale |  |
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| Gas prices, low wind, expect this to expedite sizewell c (n/t) on 09:29 - Sep 19 with 3108 views | unstableblue |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:32 - Sep 19 with 3087 views | pointofblue |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:19 - Sep 19 by chicoazul |
You don’t live in Britain? |
I think noggin lives in Norway. |  |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 10:07 - Sep 19 with 2964 views | Steve_M |
Global gas prices are at really high levels, LNG can go to Asia which is driving a lot of demand. Plus Putin has restricted Gazprom’s sales of spot gas into Europe to ‘justify’ the Nord Stream 2 pipeline so storage across Europe didn’t get filled when gas was cheaper over the Summer.
Half of the UK-France electricity interconnector was damaged by a fire last well whilst the rest was on planned maintenance so that caused a further spike.
We’re not even in Winter yet in Europe. |  |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 11:01 - Sep 19 with 2811 views | solomon |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 09:13 - Sep 19 by Basuco |
It is one of the benefits of a privatised utility providers, as a private company they can charge what they like, it is all about profit and dividends payments (at 20% tax) rather than public service. |
How long before we experience the type of Enron corruption here that the US market suffered not too long ago? Can see the utility companies grow in power and influence as climate change alters our lives, i guess a lot depends on how honest our governments are. |  | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 11:06 - Sep 19 with 2789 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 11:01 - Sep 19 by solomon |
How long before we experience the type of Enron corruption here that the US market suffered not too long ago? Can see the utility companies grow in power and influence as climate change alters our lives, i guess a lot depends on how honest our governments are. |
"i guess a lot depends on how honest our governments are...."
Well that's us f'ed then. | |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 18:55 - Sep 19 with 2561 views | HARRY10 |
It is worth noting that thanks to righties politics the storage of liquid gas has shrunk - just as they did with PPE - and we know what happened there
Currently
"The UK has slashed its strategic gas storage to barely 1.7pc of annual demand by closing the Rough facility off the Yorkshire coast, subcontracting the costly task of storage to Germany and the Netherlands. Clive Moffatt, a gas consultant and former adviser to the Government on energy security, said: “It should be nearer 25pc. Data from Gas Infrastructure Europe show that the UK has less than nine terawatt hours of storage compared to 75 terawatt hours in the Netherlands (with a quarter of the population). The stocks are 113 terawatt hours in France, 148 in Germany and 166 in Italy.”
and as with Covid, while the cause is external, the ability to deal with it is internal and will be similarly affected by this short termism - imposed by privatisation. Invest in new plant/equipment, or pay higher dividends from increased profits ......not too difficult to see how the UK now works.
"Wafer-thin gas reserves have left the British economy almost uniquely vulnerable to an extreme global supply squeeze, and dangerously reliant on cross-Channel interconnectors that may be curtailed if Europe itself faces power blackouts and serious industrial stoppages."
The above are quotes from the Daily Telegraph, which is hardly a hot bed of progressive thinking. But even they grasp that years of 'neglect' and screwing the last drop out of the system by the wealthy has left the country vulnerable to any shock of this kind.
Still, the good news is that the EU are using their financial clout to fight back against one of the causes, Putin/Gazprom. Just be grateful the UK has the sense to be part of that 'big stick' carrying group -and is not left out in the cold. | | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 19:29 - Sep 19 with 2509 views | azuremerlangus |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 10:07 - Sep 19 by Steve_M |
Global gas prices are at really high levels, LNG can go to Asia which is driving a lot of demand. Plus Putin has restricted Gazprom’s sales of spot gas into Europe to ‘justify’ the Nord Stream 2 pipeline so storage across Europe didn’t get filled when gas was cheaper over the Summer.
Half of the UK-France electricity interconnector was damaged by a fire last well whilst the rest was on planned maintenance so that caused a further spike.
We’re not even in Winter yet in Europe. |
We import a fair amount of energy from France, can’t think why that would be a problem at the moment… [Post edited 19 Sep 2021 19:37]
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 20:13 - Sep 19 with 2438 views | Bluedicea |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 18:55 - Sep 19 by HARRY10 |
It is worth noting that thanks to righties politics the storage of liquid gas has shrunk - just as they did with PPE - and we know what happened there
Currently
"The UK has slashed its strategic gas storage to barely 1.7pc of annual demand by closing the Rough facility off the Yorkshire coast, subcontracting the costly task of storage to Germany and the Netherlands. Clive Moffatt, a gas consultant and former adviser to the Government on energy security, said: “It should be nearer 25pc. Data from Gas Infrastructure Europe show that the UK has less than nine terawatt hours of storage compared to 75 terawatt hours in the Netherlands (with a quarter of the population). The stocks are 113 terawatt hours in France, 148 in Germany and 166 in Italy.”
and as with Covid, while the cause is external, the ability to deal with it is internal and will be similarly affected by this short termism - imposed by privatisation. Invest in new plant/equipment, or pay higher dividends from increased profits ......not too difficult to see how the UK now works.
"Wafer-thin gas reserves have left the British economy almost uniquely vulnerable to an extreme global supply squeeze, and dangerously reliant on cross-Channel interconnectors that may be curtailed if Europe itself faces power blackouts and serious industrial stoppages."
The above are quotes from the Daily Telegraph, which is hardly a hot bed of progressive thinking. But even they grasp that years of 'neglect' and screwing the last drop out of the system by the wealthy has left the country vulnerable to any shock of this kind.
Still, the good news is that the EU are using their financial clout to fight back against one of the causes, Putin/Gazprom. Just be grateful the UK has the sense to be part of that 'big stick' carrying group -and is not left out in the cold. |
You just twist everything.
The decision to close the Rough facility was made in 2017 by the owners of it, Centrica, the energy firm that owns British Gas. The reason they closed it was because it was too costly to keep running and to update to modern standards. The facility had gone over it's 40 year life span and was at its height only ever 10% of the UK storage and processing, it was also leaking more gas than is allowed under current EU law, which is why it had to reduce the pressure of the gas they kept in storage.
https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/rough-gas-storage-facility-review-of-undertakings
Since then we have had dozens of extra storage capacity built, by several companies. Some are still not finished, as they take several years to construct. The reason they did this is because we can no longer rely on the North Sea gas fields as they are running out. A decade ago they were supplying 70% of our needs and we were exporting it. Now the field can only supply 40% of our needs, so in the last decade we have become a net importer for gas. The government addressed this by asking companies to build more and larger gas storage facilities for the future, of which most have only been finished in the last 3 years and have come online during the pandemic.
Between February 2019 and February 2021, the storage went from 2.5 billion cubic metres to 4.2 billion cubic metres. It was 1.2 billion cubic metres in 2001, these are all established and published facts, to show we have increased our storage capacity, which you have lied about and not proven in any way.
And this goes along with the fact we are using 22% less gas now than we did in 2001.
Another reason for the increase in gas prices is due to increased demand from the far east and the weather in Europe has been calmer and less windy this year than usual, so we need more gas and coal power to shore up the difference.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/549039/gas-storage-space-uk/
https://www.oxfordenergy.org/publications/gas-storage-in-great-britain/ [Post edited 21 Sep 2021 18:50]
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| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 20:20 - Sep 19 with 2421 views | floridablue |
Going back a good 15 years ago when i was caretaking a handful of homes in my newly built sub division, which i live in for my Geordie next door neighbour (talked his brothers and friends to purchase 6 vacation rentals) , they had let one go into long time rental. A few months into the lease, mid summer months and I'd called to check on the renters. One p----d off guy asked me how long I was allowing the pool equipment/pump to run? We went around the side to check timer which was set for 8 or so hours.. the norm... and he then blamed me as to why they were getting electric bills of over $500 a month!!
Disclaimer ... I no longer caretake any homes. I know of many homes here that get monthly bills above that in summer months with a/c and pools running | | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 21:19 - Sep 19 with 2327 views | HARRY10 |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 20:13 - Sep 19 by Bluedicea |
You just twist everything.
The decision to close the Rough facility was made in 2017 by the owners of it, Centrica, the energy firm that owns British Gas. The reason they closed it was because it was too costly to keep running and to update to modern standards. The facility had gone over it's 40 year life span and was at its height only ever 10% of the UK storage and processing, it was also leaking more gas than is allowed under current EU law, which is why it had to reduce the pressure of the gas they kept in storage.
https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/rough-gas-storage-facility-review-of-undertakings
Since then we have had dozens of extra storage capacity built, by several companies. Some are still not finished, as they take several years to construct. The reason they did this is because we can no longer rely on the North Sea gas fields as they are running out. A decade ago they were supplying 70% of our needs and we were exporting it. Now the field can only supply 40% of our needs, so in the last decade we have become a net importer for gas. The government addressed this by asking companies to build more and larger gas storage facilities for the future, of which most have only been finished in the last 3 years and have come online during the pandemic.
Between February 2019 and February 2021, the storage went from 2.5 billion cubic metres to 4.2 billion cubic metres. It was 1.2 billion cubic metres in 2001, these are all established and published facts, to show we have increased our storage capacity, which you have lied about and not proven in any way.
And this goes along with the fact we are using 22% less gas now than we did in 2001.
Another reason for the increase in gas prices is due to increased demand from the far east and the weather in Europe has been calmer and less windy this year than usual, so we need more gas and coal power to shore up the difference.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/549039/gas-storage-space-uk/
https://www.oxfordenergy.org/publications/gas-storage-in-great-britain/ [Post edited 21 Sep 2021 18:50]
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Meaningless guff, I'm afraid as you have put up no factual evidence which disproves anything I have stated
For the record the UK continued to increase its gas production from 2020. Though "since 1998 the UK has gone from being a net exporter to a net importer of energy"
"While our largest single source of gas supply continues to be the UK Continental Shelf (approximately 48% of total supply in 2020)", not 40% as you claim
It matters little how many storage facilities have supposedly been built, or their capacity - it is the volume they hold. Would you care to put up evidence to disprove the figures the Telegraph listed ?
The reality is most are aware that the North Sea energy resources are decreasing, and that the UK imports energy (see link below). What the concern currently is, is the lack of ability to deal with problems that arise such as this.
notes
I have found no evidence that Centrica is Italian owned
the true figures on UK energy imports can be found here
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/ukenergyhowmuchwha
And the misinformation about the closing of Rough is easily disproved here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a30ff94ed915d2cf25281ac/rough-fi
and if putting up links to uk government sources to allow others to decide themselves is 'twisting' things - then so be it, however the information is there if they choose | | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 22:34 - Sep 19 with 2230 views | Lesta_Tractor |
If you think the electric is expensive you should see our petrol prices... |  |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 22:43 - Sep 19 with 2203 views | HARRY10 |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 22:34 - Sep 19 by Lesta_Tractor |
If you think the electric is expensive you should see our petrol prices... |
Hopefully we may see fewer friggin' illuminated father xmases sliding up and down outside of houses, along with all the other shi te that festoons the houses of the slow witted | | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 23:46 - Sep 19 with 2120 views | TooManyCooks |
From an Investors point of view, what I think we are currently seeing is the perfect storm that has been on the cards for years and this is a global problem, not just the UK. The return to normal after the pandemic has expedited and exacerbated the underlying issues.
Most nations of course relied on coal to generate electricity, but when they started talking "green" and set CO2 emission targets 10+ years ago, an alternative to coal needed to be found and LNG was abundant, is much cleaner to burn and it was also relatively cheap to convert machinery, factories, cars etc to LNG so it was a natural shift. The shift away from coal increased the demand for gas exponentially across the globe for the last few years and supply wasn't an issue as the US shale industry (as well as others) sprang up and exported ruddy loads of the stuff (it then became a monster, which inevitably caused its own problems and imploded, but that's another story). Anyway, to cut a long story short, there was loads of supply, but there was also a problem, people didn't like fracking for one and then there was relatively recent evidence that the gas production was also putting a bucket load of methane into the atmosphere, which is harmful and kind of defeats the whole "green" approach, so funding dried up for new ventures exploring gas production as no investors want to lose all their money when a damning report comes out. I fully expected what we are seeing now to happen a couple of years ago, but then Covid came and economies stopped so gas demand waned, anywayyyyyyy, exploration funds dried up, Covid sort of went and people got back to normal, so demand has shot up again, but there's not enough supply to meet demand currently and as there's virtually no new ventures to find/supply the stuff, prices are shooting up. The yanks have a bucket load of the stuff available, but won't increase production because they're happy with prices going up basically, it makes them more profitable (study a bit about the shale industry over there and you'll understand why they have this mentality).
That's my take anyway, I could have simply said demand currently outweighs supply :-)
For what it's worth, I can't see demand dropping any time soon, the alternative energy industries just aren't grown up enough to supply the amounts needed, eventually the yanks (under pressure from us no doubt) will produce more gas and prices will drop a bit, but I imagine that there will be a new base gas price that is significantly higher than it has ever been before, so higher prices are the new norm, like our friend Covid :-(
That's my take anyway, happy for anybody to disagree, lol. | |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 01:02 - Sep 20 with 2077 views | HARRY10 |
"...........his is a global problem, not just the UK."
err, yes - nobody is claiming it isn't
Where the concerns lie is how resilient the UK is to dealing with this problem. The lack of strategic reserves will play a major part in the way of dealing with this.*
And having an incompetent like 'fat boy' in charge will mean more dithering and umpteen u-turns. Much of Europe has already taken action to subsidise prices and ensure disruption is kept to a minimum, where possible. Fat boy is on holiday.
*The closing of the Rough storage facility did provoke a warning back in 2017
"The closure of the UK’s largest gas storage plant has prompted warnings that the country faces more volatile winter gas prices and is becoming too dependent on energy imports."
"Analysts at Barclays said the closure would increase the volatility of winter gas prices, a view shared by other industry-watchers. Matt Osborne, a risk manager at energy consultancy Inenco, said: “We anticipate that the decision to close Rough will create uncertainty in terms of energy pricing." Tue 20 Jun 2017
Stripping the PPE stocks to their bare minimum, reducing police numbers by 20,000, ending nurses bursaries and now the lunacy of blocking migrant labour from filling jobs that pay less than £25,000 per annum is having its effect. As was predicted (above) and elsewhere repeatedly.
Cutting over £1000 from Universal Credit will take around £4-5 bn (?) out of the economy and hit hardest those for whom energy costs are a large percentage of their income, who are now set to face this increased cost - assuming they do not get also hit with higher petrol prices.
Perhaps when the wind blows a bit more, the various supply lines are fixed, all power stations are up and running we will see these sudden flare ups recede. Elsewhere the Chinese property boom has slowed, meaning less energy needed.
However the rest stands. Through incompetent leadership and policies, the UK has been left vulnerable to global problems - and as businesses and trade continue to seep out of the country there is a certainty of far worse ahead as these factors bite harder.
Gird up your loins ..... a hard winter is a comin' | | | |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 06:31 - Sep 20 with 1991 views | chicoazul |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 10:07 - Sep 19 by Steve_M |
Global gas prices are at really high levels, LNG can go to Asia which is driving a lot of demand. Plus Putin has restricted Gazprom’s sales of spot gas into Europe to ‘justify’ the Nord Stream 2 pipeline so storage across Europe didn’t get filled when gas was cheaper over the Summer.
Half of the UK-France electricity interconnector was damaged by a fire last well whilst the rest was on planned maintenance so that caused a further spike.
We’re not even in Winter yet in Europe. |
It’s ok we have lots of coal powered stations to back us up | |
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 06:33 - Sep 20 with 1985 views | ElderGrizzly |
It’s expensive right now. More than double a lot of Europe (first image was spot price so ignore that)
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| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 07:39 - Sep 20 with 1883 views | Steve_M |
| Wow! Just seen the price of electricity in Britain on 19:29 - Sep 19 by azuremerlangus |
We import a fair amount of energy from France, can’t think why that would be a problem at the moment… [Post edited 19 Sep 2021 19:37]
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Not a big deal, the market functions outside of political tantrums. However, once gas prices reach the levels they are at then it gets more interesting, Spain’s pricing mechanism did (it may still do but a few years back when I knew more on this) has some quirk where it magnifies other pricing. Idea was to guarantee supplies of LNG but that has domestic consequences. | |
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