| Integrated supply chains 14:30 - Sep 21 with 2209 views | bluelagos |
When I studied / worked, we were told "just in time" supply chains were the gold standard. You limited/eliminated stock holding costs, reduced wastage (from obsolete/perishable stocks) - you ended up with cheaper and higher quality product and that was then moved to the consumer, again, with shortest possible lead times.
Every one is happy...the manufacturer, the retailer, the customer.
Except it seems it's complete bollox. One thing goes wrong and the whole supply chain grinds to a halt. Whether it is shortages of drivers or Co2 - queues at borders - delays from Chinese factories - whatever causes the various shortages - our supply chains are so lean and integrated that we are clearly exposed the minute one link goes to tits.
And if you think I am being over dramatic, if the Co2 runs out, you won't get beer in the pubs (apart from hand pulled ales) as Co2 is used to pull the beer to the dispensing points. Gravity only works where the beer is above the pumps and 99% of pubs have cellars, so that isn't an option...
No way to dispense beer in pubs, due to fertiliser factories closing down. Fookin great. |  |
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| Integrated supply chains on 15:20 - Sep 21 with 2104 views | WeWereZombies |
Having a squint at 'just in time' on Wikipedia, or lean manufacturing as they prefer to term it, because I wanted to find what the Japanese originally called it and what their principles were. A couple of points to bear in mind:
Post war there was chronic unemployment there so any slack in the system was quickly taken up by recruiting. Currently a skills shortage puts this advantage at a disadvantage.
Because of materials shortages and a lack of natural resources there was not the impetus to build enormous factories in Japan, instead they had a large number of small to medium sized industrial units competing to manufacture and supply, as with skills if one unit failed there were plenty more to jump in and keep the lean manufacturing supply chain, errr, lean.
For a while, kaizen (continuous improvement) added another string to this bow as workers or small units looked to cement their position and show their worth with ideas even though the result might be generating more output for less unit cost. Am I being cynical in thinking that once a Western retailer gets hold of the product all the kaizen goes out the window and any improvements are held back until old stock is sold off at a premium (either because an artificial shortage is created or an advertising campaign is instigated to bolster the product) before each improvement is dribbled out as the greatest innovation ever? Early adopters are then punished for helping to test the company's vaguely better product by being subjected to a premium generated by the previous iteration's scarcity. [Post edited 21 Sep 2021 15:22]
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| Integrated supply chains on 15:24 - Sep 21 with 2090 views | WD19 |
Don't panic. I am working on this new concept I call a 'bottel' that is a glass device for storing/serving beer. I think it might come into its own in such situations. |  | | |
| Integrated supply chains on 15:30 - Sep 21 with 2068 views | bluelagos |
| Integrated supply chains on 15:24 - Sep 21 by WD19 |
Don't panic. I am working on this new concept I call a 'bottel' that is a glass device for storing/serving beer. I think it might come into its own in such situations. |
You think Breweries have the bottling plant / capacity to just switch production from draught/kegs to bottles? They wish!
As an aside, when I was working for Guinness we actually purchased a 2nd hand bottling line in Korea and shipped it to Nigeria. All went well until the bottle inspector went missing in transit. Everything was put together but this bit was missing and was something silly like 12 foot by 12 foot in size.
Turned up sitting on a Spanish runway - had been too big for the plane hold so some bright spark just left it on the runway. Lost about 2 weeks of production over that. | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 16:05 - Sep 21 with 1993 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Integrated supply chains on 15:30 - Sep 21 by bluelagos |
You think Breweries have the bottling plant / capacity to just switch production from draught/kegs to bottles? They wish!
As an aside, when I was working for Guinness we actually purchased a 2nd hand bottling line in Korea and shipped it to Nigeria. All went well until the bottle inspector went missing in transit. Everything was put together but this bit was missing and was something silly like 12 foot by 12 foot in size.
Turned up sitting on a Spanish runway - had been too big for the plane hold so some bright spark just left it on the runway. Lost about 2 weeks of production over that. |
I’m not surprised they couldn’t find a seat for a 12ft bottle inspector! |  | | |
| Integrated supply chains on 16:19 - Sep 21 with 1967 views | itfcjoe |
Whilst 99% of pubs have cellars, probably only half are underground - most are ground level cold rooms |  |
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| Integrated supply chains on 16:42 - Sep 21 with 1890 views | bluelagos |
| Integrated supply chains on 16:19 - Sep 21 by itfcjoe |
Whilst 99% of pubs have cellars, probably only half are underground - most are ground level cold rooms |
Not the many I visited (Was Midlands based but can't see why that would be any different) back in the day - under the bar was pretty much standard in every pub I went to.
You can get beer taps to dispense from Kegs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_tap
but you still need to move the beer from the cellar or cold room to the bar - pint by pint.
If you have the keg in the bar - you have the hassle of moving them - just about doable with a firkin (the smallest one) - not happening with the larger ones.
Anyhow - just read the Govt has announced a deal has been done with the Co2 maker so we can all rest easy. For now. | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 22:13 - Sep 21 with 1725 views | Lord_Lucan |
The CO2 problem is a proper big problem, CO2 is used for all things from killing your food to packaging it. I was going to post about this the other day but completely forgot until I saw your post.
As for supply chains. Supply chains are this way for the same reason we buy most of our consumables from China. Everyone wants cheap goods, it really is as simple as that.
Also, multiples want the world. Here's a thing......... Our biggest selling product (which is absolutely unique) looks like it won't be in until December at the earliest. We supply some of this product to a distributor who in turn sells it to a large High Street Chain. Because the product will be late in (at best) the High Street chain is fining the distributor £ many thousands £..... for loss of profit.
They have it all ways. And here's another thing......Yes there are a shortage of lorry drivers**** but one of the problems is that the regional distribution centres of the large multiples haven't the staff to unload the goods in time so the drivers are kept hanging around for half a day until they get round to being tipped.
****The lorry driver situation was a disaster waiting to happen. Permanent drivers are paid poor wages and have to suffer terrible conditions. It is not uncommon for drivers to be away from home for days on end and the youngsters simply don't want the job because they expect better and so do their wives - all this time the older drivers are retiring - or switched profession 20 years ago when there was an Eastern European influx that drove the wages down - and now the Eastern Europeans have gone home for a multitude of reasons.
Agency drivers are coining it but the loyal permanents are screwed over |  |
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| Integrated supply chains on 22:25 - Sep 21 with 1685 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Clearly bollox....next! |  |
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| Integrated supply chains on 23:11 - Sep 21 with 1618 views | Darth_Koont |
| Integrated supply chains on 15:20 - Sep 21 by WeWereZombies |
Having a squint at 'just in time' on Wikipedia, or lean manufacturing as they prefer to term it, because I wanted to find what the Japanese originally called it and what their principles were. A couple of points to bear in mind:
Post war there was chronic unemployment there so any slack in the system was quickly taken up by recruiting. Currently a skills shortage puts this advantage at a disadvantage.
Because of materials shortages and a lack of natural resources there was not the impetus to build enormous factories in Japan, instead they had a large number of small to medium sized industrial units competing to manufacture and supply, as with skills if one unit failed there were plenty more to jump in and keep the lean manufacturing supply chain, errr, lean.
For a while, kaizen (continuous improvement) added another string to this bow as workers or small units looked to cement their position and show their worth with ideas even though the result might be generating more output for less unit cost. Am I being cynical in thinking that once a Western retailer gets hold of the product all the kaizen goes out the window and any improvements are held back until old stock is sold off at a premium (either because an artificial shortage is created or an advertising campaign is instigated to bolster the product) before each improvement is dribbled out as the greatest innovation ever? Early adopters are then punished for helping to test the company's vaguely better product by being subjected to a premium generated by the previous iteration's scarcity. [Post edited 21 Sep 2021 15:22]
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I think the TPS (Toyota Production System) and its offshoots are things of beauty. So many applications outside of manufacturing, supply chains and industry because of great insights into how to think.
They’re really a checklist for humans to think better and think slower (like Daniel Kahneman). Problem is that this sort of deep insight – and the need for it – is too often criminally ignored.
I’d like to see the TPS and kaizen (continuous improvement instead of continuous growth) applied to society and any number of issues.
Bit of a side note, but seemed like the best thread to add my tuppence worth. |  |
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| Integrated supply chains on 08:24 - Sep 22 with 1488 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Integrated supply chains on 16:42 - Sep 21 by bluelagos |
Not the many I visited (Was Midlands based but can't see why that would be any different) back in the day - under the bar was pretty much standard in every pub I went to.
You can get beer taps to dispense from Kegs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_tap
but you still need to move the beer from the cellar or cold room to the bar - pint by pint.
If you have the keg in the bar - you have the hassle of moving them - just about doable with a firkin (the smallest one) - not happening with the larger ones.
Anyhow - just read the Govt has announced a deal has been done with the Co2 maker so we can all rest easy. For now. |
I believe Nigeria drinks more Guinness that Ireland - but they drink those un gassed bottles. | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:03 - Sep 22 with 1431 views | bluelagos |
| Integrated supply chains on 08:24 - Sep 22 by Lord_Lucan |
I believe Nigeria drinks more Guinness that Ireland - but they drink those un gassed bottles. |
They do, but not per head. Approaching 200m Nigerians so far bigger market.
Yep, all reusaable bottles (or was when I was there) without reliable electricity, draught is never going to be a goer.
Local bottle supply (I was on the team that did the deal to buy 120m new ones) and each bottle used on average 11 times. Kegs are more sustainable but infrastructure not in place to support draught.
Looked at canning lines but environmental impact and cost was prohibitive (in early 2000s)
My fav Guinness in Nigeria fact, they export the FES to the Nigerian consumers in London and some entreprenuers shift it onto Dublin. So the Nigerians are selling Guinness to Ireland. | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:07 - Sep 22 with 1414 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Integrated supply chains on 09:03 - Sep 22 by bluelagos |
They do, but not per head. Approaching 200m Nigerians so far bigger market.
Yep, all reusaable bottles (or was when I was there) without reliable electricity, draught is never going to be a goer.
Local bottle supply (I was on the team that did the deal to buy 120m new ones) and each bottle used on average 11 times. Kegs are more sustainable but infrastructure not in place to support draught.
Looked at canning lines but environmental impact and cost was prohibitive (in early 2000s)
My fav Guinness in Nigeria fact, they export the FES to the Nigerian consumers in London and some entreprenuers shift it onto Dublin. So the Nigerians are selling Guinness to Ireland. |
Isn't the Nigerian stuff a lot stronger? I don't mind a cold namby pamby draught Guinness now and again but I'm not too keen on that bottled stuff. | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:18 - Sep 22 with 1395 views | bluelagos |
| Integrated supply chains on 09:07 - Sep 22 by Lord_Lucan |
Isn't the Nigerian stuff a lot stronger? I don't mind a cold namby pamby draught Guinness now and again but I'm not too keen on that bottled stuff. |
Yep, around 8%. In the 70s the Nigerians banned the import of wheat/barley so all the local brewers switched to Sorgham, grown in Nigeria. After the ban eneed they switched but the consumers werent happy and they all carried on with Sorgham (not sure of the spelling) which has a very distinct taste.
So the FES (which is also made in Ireland) has a very distinctive taste in Nigeria.
FES is the closest to the original guinness. The watered down/girly version you drink was invented in the 60s for consumers who found the hard stuff too much*
*according to Nigerians who its fair to say are quite macho in their views of alcohol.
I've always found it too bitter. One tip is to mix it with Yoghurt. You get your own flavour as suits.
In the Midlands people drink it mixed with Mild (50:50) and in Liverpool with bitter (scouse). Never seen it in Anglia but I recall people drinking 'black and tan' which could be with Guinness or Mackesons?
I could bore you for hours :-) | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:27 - Sep 22 with 1377 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Integrated supply chains on 09:18 - Sep 22 by bluelagos |
Yep, around 8%. In the 70s the Nigerians banned the import of wheat/barley so all the local brewers switched to Sorgham, grown in Nigeria. After the ban eneed they switched but the consumers werent happy and they all carried on with Sorgham (not sure of the spelling) which has a very distinct taste.
So the FES (which is also made in Ireland) has a very distinctive taste in Nigeria.
FES is the closest to the original guinness. The watered down/girly version you drink was invented in the 60s for consumers who found the hard stuff too much*
*according to Nigerians who its fair to say are quite macho in their views of alcohol.
I've always found it too bitter. One tip is to mix it with Yoghurt. You get your own flavour as suits.
In the Midlands people drink it mixed with Mild (50:50) and in Liverpool with bitter (scouse). Never seen it in Anglia but I recall people drinking 'black and tan' which could be with Guinness or Mackesons?
I could bore you for hours :-) |
Mr Mrs used to drink Mackeson and cider, I'm not sure you can get Mackeson anymore.
For me, the taste of the bottled stuff just tastes dull | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:36 - Sep 22 with 1353 views | bluelagos |
| Integrated supply chains on 09:27 - Sep 22 by Lord_Lucan |
Mr Mrs used to drink Mackeson and cider, I'm not sure you can get Mackeson anymore.
For me, the taste of the bottled stuff just tastes dull |
Having discovered Aspalls and Czech / German lagers, I don't go near the stuff now.
One tip, avoid Star beer if you ever go to Lagos. Is made with fermaldehide as a preservative. Or do the trick to remove it (shown to me by a local brewer)...place half a glass of water in the table, and flip the bottle to it's neck sits in the water.
Then by magic (or osmosis for the scientific types) the fermaldehide leaves the lager and goes into the water. When it stops, you have the Lager less the preservative. Htf it's legal I'll never know,
Or just drink imported beers and plant a tree for the environmental impact of single use bottle and transit. | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:36 - Sep 22 with 1353 views | WeWereZombies |
| Integrated supply chains on 09:18 - Sep 22 by bluelagos |
Yep, around 8%. In the 70s the Nigerians banned the import of wheat/barley so all the local brewers switched to Sorgham, grown in Nigeria. After the ban eneed they switched but the consumers werent happy and they all carried on with Sorgham (not sure of the spelling) which has a very distinct taste.
So the FES (which is also made in Ireland) has a very distinctive taste in Nigeria.
FES is the closest to the original guinness. The watered down/girly version you drink was invented in the 60s for consumers who found the hard stuff too much*
*according to Nigerians who its fair to say are quite macho in their views of alcohol.
I've always found it too bitter. One tip is to mix it with Yoghurt. You get your own flavour as suits.
In the Midlands people drink it mixed with Mild (50:50) and in Liverpool with bitter (scouse). Never seen it in Anglia but I recall people drinking 'black and tan' which could be with Guinness or Mackesons?
I could bore you for hours :-) |
This answers the question in your closing paragraph, and also has a very critical piece of advice in the heading:
https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/why-you-should-never-order-a-black-and-tan-in-ire | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 09:40 - Sep 22 with 1340 views | bluelagos |
Cheers for the tip :-) | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 22:06 - Sep 22 with 1190 views | Swansea_Blue |
Turn pubs upside down, job sorted.
Some of these supply chains don’t seem very resilient. It pays to have a bit of redundancy built in imo. Running down to the last bog roll in our house would be a disaster, for example. |  |
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| Integrated supply chains on 05:37 - Sep 23 with 1095 views | IPS_wich |
| Integrated supply chains on 23:11 - Sep 21 by Darth_Koont |
I think the TPS (Toyota Production System) and its offshoots are things of beauty. So many applications outside of manufacturing, supply chains and industry because of great insights into how to think.
They’re really a checklist for humans to think better and think slower (like Daniel Kahneman). Problem is that this sort of deep insight – and the need for it – is too often criminally ignored.
I’d like to see the TPS and kaizen (continuous improvement instead of continuous growth) applied to society and any number of issues.
Bit of a side note, but seemed like the best thread to add my tuppence worth. |
Yes and no. I was (still am to some extent) a complete TPS nerd - until I then had to lead projects trying to apply it in public services - which is when it went to sh*t.
As far as I can tell there were three reasons for this:
1) TPS works for repeatable, high volume, highly consistent processes; but as soon as you insert humans and human judgement as a major variable into the process (which is not the case in a production line) then it all falls apart.
2) TPS and kaizen require the whole organisational culture to line up behind the ideal of continuous improvement; where any worker can have an idea and there is the structures around them to give it a go. Whereas the UK government at the time (late 2000s) were only looking to achieve bankable efficiency savings, which more often or not meant there would be job losses if you made things 'too lean' - try getting front line staff to come up with ideas that could potentially see them lose their job.
3) Finally, there were some really dumb consultants who couldn't work out how to humanize their methods. The biggest culprits were Unipart, who had applied Lean thinking to most of their business and then spun off a consultancy arm to work with other organisations - they did some really stupid things which got Lean/TPS a really bad name. The one that springs to mind was the case of the 'active banana' - where a bureaucrat in HRMC was asked if the banana they had on their desk was 'actively part of their job' - and if not then they had to remove it from their desk ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/6230629.stm and https://www.leanblog.org/2007/02/bad-lean5s-hits-uk-media/ )
I did have some successes, I worked on 2-3 of the NHS Institute for Innovation's 'Productive Series' and was one of the two lead authors for the 'Productive Community Hospital' https://www.england.nhs.uk/improvement-hub/productives/#community-hospital
But I realised that government had gone a bit mad when I was asked to lead a project for the Department of Education to pilot how lean could be used in school kitchens because Jamie Oliver's campaign to make school lunches healthier had caused a massive rise in demand - and school kitchens couldn't cope. We found some interesting things from the pilots, but really, once you throw kids into the equation all bets are off if you want to try and have a controlled process!!! |  | | |
| Integrated supply chains on 13:15 - Sep 24 with 896 views | bluelagos |
As I was saying...  | |
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| Integrated supply chains on 13:31 - Sep 24 with 865 views | Darth_Koont |
| Integrated supply chains on 05:37 - Sep 23 by IPS_wich |
Yes and no. I was (still am to some extent) a complete TPS nerd - until I then had to lead projects trying to apply it in public services - which is when it went to sh*t.
As far as I can tell there were three reasons for this:
1) TPS works for repeatable, high volume, highly consistent processes; but as soon as you insert humans and human judgement as a major variable into the process (which is not the case in a production line) then it all falls apart.
2) TPS and kaizen require the whole organisational culture to line up behind the ideal of continuous improvement; where any worker can have an idea and there is the structures around them to give it a go. Whereas the UK government at the time (late 2000s) were only looking to achieve bankable efficiency savings, which more often or not meant there would be job losses if you made things 'too lean' - try getting front line staff to come up with ideas that could potentially see them lose their job.
3) Finally, there were some really dumb consultants who couldn't work out how to humanize their methods. The biggest culprits were Unipart, who had applied Lean thinking to most of their business and then spun off a consultancy arm to work with other organisations - they did some really stupid things which got Lean/TPS a really bad name. The one that springs to mind was the case of the 'active banana' - where a bureaucrat in HRMC was asked if the banana they had on their desk was 'actively part of their job' - and if not then they had to remove it from their desk ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/6230629.stm and https://www.leanblog.org/2007/02/bad-lean5s-hits-uk-media/ )
I did have some successes, I worked on 2-3 of the NHS Institute for Innovation's 'Productive Series' and was one of the two lead authors for the 'Productive Community Hospital' https://www.england.nhs.uk/improvement-hub/productives/#community-hospital
But I realised that government had gone a bit mad when I was asked to lead a project for the Department of Education to pilot how lean could be used in school kitchens because Jamie Oliver's campaign to make school lunches healthier had caused a massive rise in demand - and school kitchens couldn't cope. We found some interesting things from the pilots, but really, once you throw kids into the equation all bets are off if you want to try and have a controlled process!!! |
Thanks for the insights. You sound much more involved in pure process and organisational issues than me.
But that sounds about right from what I know about people and processes. And I agree that applying TPS as a system really only works in those consistent, high-volume production processes.
In my mind, you can apply most of the TPS values as insights in team/workflow stuff but they’ll never work as rules in themselves. People are too unpredictable.
Genchi Genbutsu or going to the source of the information/problem etc. and seeing for yourself is my favourite lesson/insight as so often people tend to react to what they see from afar, with limited or poor-quality information, and end up doing the wrong thing/making it worse as well as wasting a load of time not dealing with reality.
That’s a big lesson for society and our establishments right there. [Post edited 24 Sep 2021 13:34]
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