Labour 23:44 - Sep 21 with 6741 views | Darth_Koont | Wow! What a sh1tshow. You have to go back to IDS to see as dysfunctional and lost an opposition as this. The only winners are an independent Scotland. Possibly Wales and Northern Ireland too at this rate. As bad as that sounds, not sure what else gives Westminster and our media the kick up the @rse it needs. | |
| | |
Labour on 09:30 - Sep 22 with 801 views | Darth_Koont |
Of course you do. | |
| |
Labour on 09:34 - Sep 22 with 778 views | Bluefish |
Labour on 09:22 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | As I never voted for Labour until 2017 that really won’t be a problem for me. I’ll go back to voting Green. |
Weird that you don't blub about all of the other parties constantly then. Surely loads don't match your views | |
| |
Labour on 09:35 - Sep 22 with 780 views | chicoazul |
Labour on 09:29 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | Unlike you I’m well aware of the history and social development of the Nordic countries. They went from some of the poorest, most backward countries in Europe to the richest, most modern because they stuck to social democracy. And in doing so, they overtook the UK when we stopped that social and economic progress sometime around the 70s and 80s. Try again. |
This implies the cases are similar. Surely better examples would be the Balkan countries or the Czech Republic which suffered the sort of enormous short term change impacts that Scotch independence would guarantee. | |
| |
Labour on 09:38 - Sep 22 with 771 views | baxterbasics | You are right Labour really is eating itself. Though I'm not sure there would be much "winning" about an independent Scotland. Thankfully there are still enough Scots who deep in their hearts (or at least minds) know that would not work out well for them. | |
| |
Labour on 09:39 - Sep 22 with 763 views | Darth_Koont |
Labour on 09:35 - Sep 22 by chicoazul | This implies the cases are similar. Surely better examples would be the Balkan countries or the Czech Republic which suffered the sort of enormous short term change impacts that Scotch independence would guarantee. |
Don’t be daft. | |
| |
Labour on 09:43 - Sep 22 with 745 views | chicoazul |
I’m not sure but have any of the Nordic countries divorced from an ancient Union in the same way you’re proposing before going on to be modern and successful? And had to either use someone else’s currency or create a new one? | |
| |
Labour on 09:43 - Sep 22 with 744 views | Darth_Koont |
Labour on 09:34 - Sep 22 by Bluefish | Weird that you don't blub about all of the other parties constantly then. Surely loads don't match your views |
I ”blub” about how awful and crap the 2 main parties are because that’s the nature of the FPTP system. And Labour as an opposition party and even in government is as much to blame over the past couple of decades as the Tories. | |
| |
We need a strong opposition, more than we ever have.. on 09:47 - Sep 22 with 737 views | unstableblue | ... Starmer gets a skewed and negative press.. he's doomed to fail almost because of that I think you are referring to his attempts to change the party voting rules... I don;t know enough about it to comment... but is he not trying to break the influence of the hard left factions in the party membership?? | |
| | Login to get fewer ads
Labour on 09:48 - Sep 22 with 727 views | Darth_Koont |
Labour on 09:43 - Sep 22 by chicoazul | I’m not sure but have any of the Nordic countries divorced from an ancient Union in the same way you’re proposing before going on to be modern and successful? And had to either use someone else’s currency or create a new one? |
Norway did from Sweden. Iceland from Denmark. Both in the 20th century. And of course both Denmark and Finland have adopted the Euro in the EU. | |
| |
We need a strong opposition, more than we ever have.. on 09:53 - Sep 22 with 708 views | baxterbasics |
We need a strong opposition, more than we ever have.. on 09:47 - Sep 22 by unstableblue | ... Starmer gets a skewed and negative press.. he's doomed to fail almost because of that I think you are referring to his attempts to change the party voting rules... I don;t know enough about it to comment... but is he not trying to break the influence of the hard left factions in the party membership?? |
He's simply trying to reset the rules back to where they were pre Corbyn - Weighted so the unions, party membership and MPs each have a 1/3rd vote. When they changed the rules (and simultaneously dropped the cheapest membership option to £3) 1000s of hard left agitators signed up and voted Corbyn leader. Oh and quite a few right wingers too, for the lols. For comparison, the Conservative leadership is one member, one vote, has been as long as I can remember.* Edit for clarification - Tory MPs get to whittle the candidates down to 2 by themselves, those two are then presented to the wider membership on a OMOV basis. [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 9:57]
| |
| |
Labour on 09:54 - Sep 22 with 705 views | Funge |
Labour on 09:43 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | I ”blub” about how awful and crap the 2 main parties are because that’s the nature of the FPTP system. And Labour as an opposition party and even in government is as much to blame over the past couple of decades as the Tories. |
Not really, you grumble about Labour ad infinitum, when it is apparent to pretty much everyone else, that the much bigger issue is Johnson's cabal of ghouls. No-one would suggest that Joe Biden is a champion for change, or an inspiration to a generation (not too much Yes We Can here....) but he's not Trump, and that's a huge improvement. Likewise, Starmer is becoming ever more underwhelming - but I'd take his premiership over the incumbents in a heartbeart. It's a similar story here. Get rid of Johnson, then take stock. | | | |
Labour on 09:55 - Sep 22 with 695 views | Bluefish |
Labour on 09:43 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | I ”blub” about how awful and crap the 2 main parties are because that’s the nature of the FPTP system. And Labour as an opposition party and even in government is as much to blame over the past couple of decades as the Tories. |
Don't really ever notice you mention the Tories you only seem bothered by Labour | |
| |
We need a strong opposition, more than we ever have.. on 09:59 - Sep 22 with 688 views | Darth_Koont |
We need a strong opposition, more than we ever have.. on 09:47 - Sep 22 by unstableblue | ... Starmer gets a skewed and negative press.. he's doomed to fail almost because of that I think you are referring to his attempts to change the party voting rules... I don;t know enough about it to comment... but is he not trying to break the influence of the hard left factions in the party membership?? |
That’s one ... reading of it. I’m always wary of people who use “hard left” to talk about people and policies that are representative of Nordic social democracy than anything else. Am I “hard left”? If I am how far to the right is the supposed centre. Starmer gets an amazingly easy ride considering what went on before. Corbyn was regularly accused of Stalinist control and purges with no evidence to back it up ... now, with 18 months of evidence to back up the authoritarian approach and member purges it’s pretty much tumbleweed. Or even nodding approval from the ridiculous centrist hacks that populate our media as the “voices of reason”. I hope the current Labour entity implodes so a serious social democratic opposition to the UK right can emerge. They seem to be doing a great job of it to be fair. | |
| |
Labour on 10:03 - Sep 22 with 675 views | Darth_Koont |
Labour on 09:55 - Sep 22 by Bluefish | Don't really ever notice you mention the Tories you only seem bothered by Labour |
You don’t seem to like ITFC because you’re always moaning about it. See how that works? And anyway, I’ve always been vocally critical of the Tories on here. That’s pretty much my default. | |
| |
Labour on 10:07 - Sep 22 with 657 views | baxterbasics | I would like a viable alternative to vote for also. But Labour 'aint going to be it. Might go Lib Dem if they continue to oppose vaccine passports, wasted vote though it may be. Failing that I'm firmly in 'draw a phallus on the ballot' territory. | |
| |
Labour on 10:13 - Sep 22 with 645 views | Darth_Koont |
Labour on 09:54 - Sep 22 by Funge | Not really, you grumble about Labour ad infinitum, when it is apparent to pretty much everyone else, that the much bigger issue is Johnson's cabal of ghouls. No-one would suggest that Joe Biden is a champion for change, or an inspiration to a generation (not too much Yes We Can here....) but he's not Trump, and that's a huge improvement. Likewise, Starmer is becoming ever more underwhelming - but I'd take his premiership over the incumbents in a heartbeart. It's a similar story here. Get rid of Johnson, then take stock. |
I think if people see the problem with this country as the Tories, then they’re not really paying attention. It’s our politics and media across the board that’s brought us here – and has done for decades. Expecting so little from our opposition in terms of meaningful change and reversing our trajectory enables the Tories as much as anything else. Thanks to weak as p1ss Labour opposition and a period in government that barely shifted the direction of travel, the Tories have even co-opted the disillusioned and disenfranchised in England!! To make matters worse, the current incarnation of Labour is now just as bad and pretty indistinguishable in terms of its vision. | |
| |
Labour on 10:18 - Sep 22 with 624 views | Funge |
Labour on 10:13 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | I think if people see the problem with this country as the Tories, then they’re not really paying attention. It’s our politics and media across the board that’s brought us here – and has done for decades. Expecting so little from our opposition in terms of meaningful change and reversing our trajectory enables the Tories as much as anything else. Thanks to weak as p1ss Labour opposition and a period in government that barely shifted the direction of travel, the Tories have even co-opted the disillusioned and disenfranchised in England!! To make matters worse, the current incarnation of Labour is now just as bad and pretty indistinguishable in terms of its vision. |
'I think if people see the problem with this country as the Tories, then they’re not really paying attention. It’s our politics and media across the board that’s brought us here – and has done for decades.' See, this is the same debate that people have with you every time. DK - Labour are awful! A.N Other - the Tories are so much worse, here's why.... DK - you're missing the point! The media are awful! ... and repeat. | | | |
Labour on 10:22 - Sep 22 with 617 views | BlueandTruesince82 | All our politicians are useless. People used to go into politics to change things. Now they do it keep them the same. Labour are a powder puff of an opposition though now with less nuttyness SNP fail to see the irony of demanding independence whilst telling the rest of the UK she can't have that same choice, almost feels like combat 18 Scotland Conservatives fail to see the irony of telling Scotland she can't have independence having recently gained it for the UK Lib Dems, who? What? Are they even still a thing Green.... lovely people, but too often fail to consider the practicality of their suggestions. As for Sturgeon, I much preferred her in the Krankies. Oh what a lovely world. I'd suggestions we buy an island and call it freetopia but it would just depend into much of the same. | |
| |
Labour on 10:25 - Sep 22 with 606 views | Bluefish |
Labour on 10:03 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | You don’t seem to like ITFC because you’re always moaning about it. See how that works? And anyway, I’ve always been vocally critical of the Tories on here. That’s pretty much my default. |
Nope don't see it | |
| |
Labour on 10:28 - Sep 22 with 593 views | baxterbasics |
Labour on 10:22 - Sep 22 by BlueandTruesince82 | All our politicians are useless. People used to go into politics to change things. Now they do it keep them the same. Labour are a powder puff of an opposition though now with less nuttyness SNP fail to see the irony of demanding independence whilst telling the rest of the UK she can't have that same choice, almost feels like combat 18 Scotland Conservatives fail to see the irony of telling Scotland she can't have independence having recently gained it for the UK Lib Dems, who? What? Are they even still a thing Green.... lovely people, but too often fail to consider the practicality of their suggestions. As for Sturgeon, I much preferred her in the Krankies. Oh what a lovely world. I'd suggestions we buy an island and call it freetopia but it would just depend into much of the same. |
I do think part of the problem is people of genuine talent can do much better for themselves in the private sector these days. Even if they have a desire to improve society, few are going to be interested in a job that pays (comparatively) little and exposes them to regular beatings from the press and public. I can't see the argument for ramping up MP and ministerial pay finding much support though. Look at the outcry every time MPs "give themselves a pay rise". | |
| |
Labour on 10:36 - Sep 22 with 573 views | Darth_Koont |
Labour on 10:18 - Sep 22 by Funge | 'I think if people see the problem with this country as the Tories, then they’re not really paying attention. It’s our politics and media across the board that’s brought us here – and has done for decades.' See, this is the same debate that people have with you every time. DK - Labour are awful! A.N Other - the Tories are so much worse, here's why.... DK - you're missing the point! The media are awful! ... and repeat. |
If there’s no clear water between Labour and the Tories people vote Tory. If the Labour government didn’t do enough to address regional and structural issues in our economy, people especially in the Red Wall turn to the Tories (like Scotland has already turned to the SNP from Labour). If the current Labour leadership don’t have any vision or principles then people turn to the Tories because they think unwisely they might at least be better off. This has been going on for years and you think it’s enough to say the Tories are the problem. Come off it. | |
| |
Labour on 10:44 - Sep 22 with 552 views | WeWereZombies |
Labour on 10:36 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont | If there’s no clear water between Labour and the Tories people vote Tory. If the Labour government didn’t do enough to address regional and structural issues in our economy, people especially in the Red Wall turn to the Tories (like Scotland has already turned to the SNP from Labour). If the current Labour leadership don’t have any vision or principles then people turn to the Tories because they think unwisely they might at least be better off. This has been going on for years and you think it’s enough to say the Tories are the problem. Come off it. |
As an aside, how many of the SNP's achievements do you think are actually finishing off ideas, programmes and projects they inherited from Labour? And have the English Conservatives now started to very quietly do the same...in much the same manner as Labour took advantage of the Liberal Party a hundred or so years ago? | |
| |
Labour on 10:53 - Sep 22 with 535 views | leitrimblue |
Labour on 08:45 - Sep 22 by chicoazul | Those are almost all wealthy sophisticated modern countries not cursed by drunkenness sectarianism and thuggery? Don’t tell us; that’s England’s fault too. |
Oi, Ireland is on that list, we no strangers to a little bit of sectarianism and drunkenness.... | | | |
Labour on 10:55 - Sep 22 with 525 views | leitrimblue |
Labour on 10:07 - Sep 22 by baxterbasics | I would like a viable alternative to vote for also. But Labour 'aint going to be it. Might go Lib Dem if they continue to oppose vaccine passports, wasted vote though it may be. Failing that I'm firmly in 'draw a phallus on the ballot' territory. |
Drawing a phallus on the ballot will surely be seen as a vote for Boris | | | |
Labour on 10:59 - Sep 22 with 508 views | Swansea_Blue | Been a massive disappointment for years, and not getting much better under Starmer. Starmer seems intelligent enough (he should be given his background), but what do labour actually stand for these days? His lack of charisma hurts them (sadly, but that's the way we've dumbed down politics). And the infighting is killing them too. Mind you, at least they are still in people's consciousness unlike the Lib Dems. Whatever happened to them eh? | |
| |
| |