| Labour 23:44 - Sep 21 with 7796 views | Darth_Koont |
Wow! What a sh1tshow. You have to go back to IDS to see as dysfunctional and lost an opposition as this.
The only winners are an independent Scotland. Possibly Wales and Northern Ireland too at this rate.
As bad as that sounds, not sure what else gives Westminster and our media the kick up the @rse it needs. |  |
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| Labour on 18:05 - Sep 22 with 931 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 18:00 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Blairite w@nkers gonna w@nk
Senior officials from the right of the party spoke of their opposition to policy positions adopted by the party under both Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, but also that of his predecessor Ed Miliband. In one 2015 exchange, a member of staff said: “Brace yourself. [Shadow chancellor John] McDonnell just called for corporation tax to go up.” Another replied: “You’re kidding me. I can’t quite believe it.
Commenting after this portion of the report was posted on social media, former shadow health secretary and leadership candidate Andy Burnham said: “Seems right to me. Always felt like the party machine opposed my pro-public NHS and social care policies between 2010 and 2015. Not sure I had even-handed treatment from them in either the 2010 or 2015 leadership elections.” |
All the centrist head-nodders and chin-strokers seem happy to support a Labour right faction who think Miliband and Burnham are beyond the pale.
Probably because they’re also Tory enablers who deep down don’t want their taxes to go up. | |
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| Labour on 18:07 - Sep 22 with 924 views | positivity |
| Labour on 17:46 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
Sorry, but that’s mostly nonsense.
The fabricated smears, lies and unthinkingly repeated narrative against Corbyn were beyond anything I’ve ever seen in British public life.
And what “toxicity” was swept away? People who supported Palestine?! I think you really need to read the Labour leaks and hear from the other side before you talk about toxicity and indeed leadership style given what was going on within HQ and the Labour PLP. |
i've read them all and i identify with the left of the party, but corbyn had to go, the boil had to be lanced.
corbyn was never able to successfully apologise to moderate jews upset by the antisemitism in the party. it was always a priti patel style non-apology with a side order of "yes,but the israeli government/zionists". this allowed the tories islamophobia free rein as they could say "yes,but corbyn" and the media would happily amplify it
of course any labour leader is going to be smeared by the media and one with corbyn's past gave them more ammunition than most. they're trying the same with starmer as they did with "communist jew" milliband
the current choice is the tories or not-the-tories, pick a side.
once that's sorted, more progressive agendas can be advanced, but corbyn-style student politics will never gain power or change with our media and establishments. |  |
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| Labour on 18:07 - Sep 22 with 919 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour on 18:05 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
All the centrist head-nodders and chin-strokers seem happy to support a Labour right faction who think Miliband and Burnham are beyond the pale.
Probably because they’re also Tory enablers who deep down don’t want their taxes to go up. |
The key holders to the prison perhaps! A little to much to lose in their quest for social justice. |  |
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| Labour on 18:09 - Sep 22 with 904 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 17:49 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
Phil’s got better things to do and so have I. [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 18:31]
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To whoever reported that as abuse: It’s a saying for goodness sake!
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.”
Jeez! | |
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| Labour on 18:13 - Sep 22 with 885 views | Ryorry |
| Labour on 18:09 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
To whoever reported that as abuse: It’s a saying for goodness sake!
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.”
Jeez! |
Not when written as you did, which was personal. |  |
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| Labour on 18:13 - Sep 22 with 884 views | noggin |
| Labour on 18:09 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
To whoever reported that as abuse: It’s a saying for goodness sake!
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.”
Jeez! |
Snowflake generation. |  |
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| Labour on 18:14 - Sep 22 with 879 views | positivity |
| Labour on 18:09 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
To whoever reported that as abuse: It’s a saying for goodness sake!
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.”
Jeez! |
if you have to explain away your insult, it suggests you were wrong to use it in the first place!
corbyn was right to accept ken livingstone's resignation for similar reasons | |
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| Labour on 18:23 - Sep 22 with 857 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 18:07 - Sep 22 by positivity |
i've read them all and i identify with the left of the party, but corbyn had to go, the boil had to be lanced.
corbyn was never able to successfully apologise to moderate jews upset by the antisemitism in the party. it was always a priti patel style non-apology with a side order of "yes,but the israeli government/zionists". this allowed the tories islamophobia free rein as they could say "yes,but corbyn" and the media would happily amplify it
of course any labour leader is going to be smeared by the media and one with corbyn's past gave them more ammunition than most. they're trying the same with starmer as they did with "communist jew" milliband
the current choice is the tories or not-the-tories, pick a side.
once that's sorted, more progressive agendas can be advanced, but corbyn-style student politics will never gain power or change with our media and establishments. |
What “boil had to be lanced”? That’s emotive nonsense.
It was pure McCarthyism and the fears of Jewish people were heightened by the accusations beyond measure. Corbyn posed “an existential threat to Jews”?? Utterly disgraceful fear-mongering that trades on the Holocaust.
His opposition to Israel’s apartheid occupation of Palestine is creditable. The fact that he upset pro-Israelis and/or the right wing and pushed them to take it to those extremes is to their discredit. And unfortunately it swept up the majority of the innocent public too, Jews and non-Jews.
Disturbing stuff but nothing we haven’t seen in other areas like the rise of anti-immigrant sentiment, Brexit xenophobia, anti-traveller rhetoric and now with transphobia. The only difference was that it was targeted at one man and specifically for party political and factional gain.
Should make a fascinating but gut-wrenching documentary, book or film one day. | |
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| Labour on 18:26 - Sep 22 with 838 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 18:14 - Sep 22 by positivity |
if you have to explain away your insult, it suggests you were wrong to use it in the first place!
corbyn was right to accept ken livingstone's resignation for similar reasons |
Eh? It wasn’t an insult, it’s a variation on a saying. In the same way, calling me a non-grown up wasn’t an insult. Or at least I didn’t take it that way. | |
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| Labour on 18:34 - Sep 22 with 818 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 18:13 - Sep 22 by Ryorry |
Not when written as you did, which was personal. |
It really wasn’t and it wasn’t my intention to offend. I’m sorry. | |
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| Labour on 18:41 - Sep 22 with 781 views | Ryorry |
| Labour on 18:34 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
It really wasn’t and it wasn’t my intention to offend. I’m sorry. |
OK, thanks for the apol. If you'd written it as you did in your explanation, no problem, can see what you meant. | |
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| Labour on 18:51 - Sep 22 with 752 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour on 18:01 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
Then that really does say more about the state of this country. Casual islamophobia has been a problem for decades. Throw in a screwed-up imperialist view of the Middle East and that’s another bit of the house to get in order. |
Is it Islamophobia? It might be. I think it's more a case of people not really knowing or caring what it's all about. They just see it as needlessly picking on sweet and innocent Israel. |  |
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| Labour on 18:58 - Sep 22 with 724 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 18:51 - Sep 22 by J2BLUE |
Is it Islamophobia? It might be. I think it's more a case of people not really knowing or caring what it's all about. They just see it as needlessly picking on sweet and innocent Israel. |
They think supporting Palestine is about needlessly picking on Israel?
On one hand you’re saying they don’t care, on the other hand you’re saying they care enough to get it wrong and see Palestinians as the oppressors. | |
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| Labour on 19:01 - Sep 22 with 708 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour on 18:58 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
They think supporting Palestine is about needlessly picking on Israel?
On one hand you’re saying they don’t care, on the other hand you’re saying they care enough to get it wrong and see Palestinians as the oppressors. |
I don't think that's contradictory. They don't care that much but from the bias in our media they probably support Israel on autopilot. | |
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| Labour on 19:07 - Sep 22 with 698 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour on 18:23 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
What “boil had to be lanced”? That’s emotive nonsense.
It was pure McCarthyism and the fears of Jewish people were heightened by the accusations beyond measure. Corbyn posed “an existential threat to Jews”?? Utterly disgraceful fear-mongering that trades on the Holocaust.
His opposition to Israel’s apartheid occupation of Palestine is creditable. The fact that he upset pro-Israelis and/or the right wing and pushed them to take it to those extremes is to their discredit. And unfortunately it swept up the majority of the innocent public too, Jews and non-Jews.
Disturbing stuff but nothing we haven’t seen in other areas like the rise of anti-immigrant sentiment, Brexit xenophobia, anti-traveller rhetoric and now with transphobia. The only difference was that it was targeted at one man and specifically for party political and factional gain.
Should make a fascinating but gut-wrenching documentary, book or film one day. |
Christ. I really didn’t think we’d still be doing this after the EHRC but here we go again.
85% of the Jewish community felt threatened by the rise in anti semitism under Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour party. If 85% of any other ethnic minority or vulnerable community felt the same, and some right wing crank on here dismissed them as being smears then they would quite rightly be told to shut the fcuk up.
I’m fed up of seeing your continued attempts at downgrading racism just because you agree with the racists politics. |  |
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| Labour on 19:08 - Sep 22 with 699 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 19:01 - Sep 22 by J2BLUE |
I don't think that's contradictory. They don't care that much but from the bias in our media they probably support Israel on autopilot. |
Fair enough. But I see this as politicians, media and the public often being led by them. It’s in the media where the casual islamophobia and imperialist stuff is most apparent.
In its more extreme forms, there’s long been attempts to portray Israel as a frontier post of the West and this is a battle over civilisation and against the forces of Islam. Our press and politicians don’t do much to discourage that given the limp coverage of Palestine more generally and our strategic support of the Israeli forces. | |
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| Labour on 19:18 - Sep 22 with 673 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 19:07 - Sep 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Christ. I really didn’t think we’d still be doing this after the EHRC but here we go again.
85% of the Jewish community felt threatened by the rise in anti semitism under Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour party. If 85% of any other ethnic minority or vulnerable community felt the same, and some right wing crank on here dismissed them as being smears then they would quite rightly be told to shut the fcuk up.
I’m fed up of seeing your continued attempts at downgrading racism just because you agree with the racists politics. |
You keep posting about the effect of the smear campaign and never about how the numbers and nature were greatly exaggerated even by those who said they were defending the Jewish community.
I think it was a shocking period and heightened fears dramatically. And I don’t think anyone who is an actual anti-racist has said that antisemitism should be ignored or downplayed because of this. There’s no place for it at all.
But I think you need to go after the antisemites for that and those who enable it. The party political, factional and Israel-Palestine stuff is depressingly where people like you, Gnasher and others are the most engaged. And it seems to have screwed up people’s priorities and sense of right and wrong. | |
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| Labour on 19:22 - Sep 22 with 658 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour on 19:18 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
You keep posting about the effect of the smear campaign and never about how the numbers and nature were greatly exaggerated even by those who said they were defending the Jewish community.
I think it was a shocking period and heightened fears dramatically. And I don’t think anyone who is an actual anti-racist has said that antisemitism should be ignored or downplayed because of this. There’s no place for it at all.
But I think you need to go after the antisemites for that and those who enable it. The party political, factional and Israel-Palestine stuff is depressingly where people like you, Gnasher and others are the most engaged. And it seems to have screwed up people’s priorities and sense of right and wrong. |
I’ll tell you what I’ll post, the statement on the EHRC report from Hope Not Hate. Now you can dismiss me all you want but you’ll be seen as an utter joke if you try and dismiss what Hope Not Hate have to say.
https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/10/29/statement-on-the-ehrc-report-in-antise
“ The findings of the EHRC investigation are both unequivocal and damning and vindicate the concerns of many in the Jewish community, both those within the Labour Party and outside.
“Those who led, ran and administered the Labour Party over this period have serious questions to answer, and the entire party from members to MPs and Peers should reflect on this period and ask themselves how this was allowed to happen for so long.
“The report documents a catalogue of failings of the utmost seriousness — unlawful conduct, harassment, discrimination, political interference and a lack of leadership.
“It should be a matter of shame and regret to the Labour Party that its leadership at the time should have allowed this to occur in a supposedly universal political party in modern Britain.
“One of the most serious accusations levelled at the leadership was found to be true — that of unlawful political interference from the Leader of the Opposition’s Office, compounded with obstruction of the EHRC investigation. This is a matter of the utmost seriousness and the party must now consider the future within the Labour movement for all involved at this level.
“We agree with the report findings that the problems within the Labour Party could have been tackled more effectively if the leadership had chosen to do so, and that a culture of toleration, verging on encouragement was at odds with a professed ‘zero tolerance’ of antisemitism.
“None of these findings are a surprise. Jewish Labour members were vocal about the discrimination and wrongdoing they were subjected to — but instead of being listened to they were ignored, smeared and abused. The pain and hurt they feel as a result of their treatment extends beyond Labour members through to the wider Jewish community across the country.
“We have no doubt that there will be many expressions of solidarity and regret in the days to come, but to truly put this behind them and find a way forward the Labour Party needs to act. That action must include every single recommendation in the EHRC’s report — but these recommendations are just the starting point from which to make the party a welcoming and inclusive party for everyone.”
Really that should be the end of it. [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 19:26]
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| Labour on 19:36 - Sep 22 with 628 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 19:22 - Sep 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ll tell you what I’ll post, the statement on the EHRC report from Hope Not Hate. Now you can dismiss me all you want but you’ll be seen as an utter joke if you try and dismiss what Hope Not Hate have to say.
https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/10/29/statement-on-the-ehrc-report-in-antise
“ The findings of the EHRC investigation are both unequivocal and damning and vindicate the concerns of many in the Jewish community, both those within the Labour Party and outside.
“Those who led, ran and administered the Labour Party over this period have serious questions to answer, and the entire party from members to MPs and Peers should reflect on this period and ask themselves how this was allowed to happen for so long.
“The report documents a catalogue of failings of the utmost seriousness — unlawful conduct, harassment, discrimination, political interference and a lack of leadership.
“It should be a matter of shame and regret to the Labour Party that its leadership at the time should have allowed this to occur in a supposedly universal political party in modern Britain.
“One of the most serious accusations levelled at the leadership was found to be true — that of unlawful political interference from the Leader of the Opposition’s Office, compounded with obstruction of the EHRC investigation. This is a matter of the utmost seriousness and the party must now consider the future within the Labour movement for all involved at this level.
“We agree with the report findings that the problems within the Labour Party could have been tackled more effectively if the leadership had chosen to do so, and that a culture of toleration, verging on encouragement was at odds with a professed ‘zero tolerance’ of antisemitism.
“None of these findings are a surprise. Jewish Labour members were vocal about the discrimination and wrongdoing they were subjected to — but instead of being listened to they were ignored, smeared and abused. The pain and hurt they feel as a result of their treatment extends beyond Labour members through to the wider Jewish community across the country.
“We have no doubt that there will be many expressions of solidarity and regret in the days to come, but to truly put this behind them and find a way forward the Labour Party needs to act. That action must include every single recommendation in the EHRC’s report — but these recommendations are just the starting point from which to make the party a welcoming and inclusive party for everyone.”
Really that should be the end of it. [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 19:26]
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It would be if you haven’t seen the numbers or the details of how Corbyn, Chakrabarti, LOTO and Jennie Formby tried to address the issue, process complaints and expel members found guilty.
Hope Not Hate have been flaky on these points from the start. Of course, their role isn’t to downplay accusations of racism and say Labour are trying to sort it out, if anything it’s to boost awareness and pressure.
On the whole that’s a good thing. But against the backdrop of factional and media misrepresentations, lies and smears about everything then it doesn’t help to pretend that the witch-hunt and unnecessary fear-stoking were warranted or helpful. Particularly for many Jewish members who were perhaps feeling unwelcome in the party or in the community who were threatened by Corbyn’s “existential threat to British Jews”. I find that almost as disgusting as antisemitism itself in terms of what it does to innocent people and their sense of security. | |
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| Labour on 19:42 - Sep 22 with 609 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour on 19:36 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
It would be if you haven’t seen the numbers or the details of how Corbyn, Chakrabarti, LOTO and Jennie Formby tried to address the issue, process complaints and expel members found guilty.
Hope Not Hate have been flaky on these points from the start. Of course, their role isn’t to downplay accusations of racism and say Labour are trying to sort it out, if anything it’s to boost awareness and pressure.
On the whole that’s a good thing. But against the backdrop of factional and media misrepresentations, lies and smears about everything then it doesn’t help to pretend that the witch-hunt and unnecessary fear-stoking were warranted or helpful. Particularly for many Jewish members who were perhaps feeling unwelcome in the party or in the community who were threatened by Corbyn’s “existential threat to British Jews”. I find that almost as disgusting as antisemitism itself in terms of what it does to innocent people and their sense of security. |
"Hope Not Hate have been flaky on these points from the start"
There we are folks. Koonters views on Hope not Hate. What a hill to die on Koonters. | |
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| Labour on 19:46 - Sep 22 with 603 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour on 19:36 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
It would be if you haven’t seen the numbers or the details of how Corbyn, Chakrabarti, LOTO and Jennie Formby tried to address the issue, process complaints and expel members found guilty.
Hope Not Hate have been flaky on these points from the start. Of course, their role isn’t to downplay accusations of racism and say Labour are trying to sort it out, if anything it’s to boost awareness and pressure.
On the whole that’s a good thing. But against the backdrop of factional and media misrepresentations, lies and smears about everything then it doesn’t help to pretend that the witch-hunt and unnecessary fear-stoking were warranted or helpful. Particularly for many Jewish members who were perhaps feeling unwelcome in the party or in the community who were threatened by Corbyn’s “existential threat to British Jews”. I find that almost as disgusting as antisemitism itself in terms of what it does to innocent people and their sense of security. |
yes but, no but, yes but ... denial, excuses and look over there ...lies and smears and it's all a witch hunt ...
and by the way - chakrabarti  [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 19:46]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour on 19:54 - Sep 22 with 570 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 19:42 - Sep 22 by GlasgowBlue |
"Hope Not Hate have been flaky on these points from the start"
There we are folks. Koonters views on Hope not Hate. What a hill to die on Koonters. |
No, I think that’s a wider view shared by others. Are they addressing the role of the staffers who sat on or ignored antisemitism complaints to fight against the left?
I take my cues from Jewish people like David Graeber, Michael Rosen, David Rosenberg, Antony Lerman and others who know what they’re talking about and have long fought antisemitism. Theirs is a view that has been criminally sidelined in this “battle”.
And Jewish people with similar views are now being expelled from Labour for “antisemitism” showing just how skewed and factional this has become — and really was from the start.
Nobody wins from this. Although if people are more aware of antisemitism that’s certainly a good thing. | |
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| Labour on 19:56 - Sep 22 with 566 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour on 19:46 - Sep 22 by lowhouseblue |
yes but, no but, yes but ... denial, excuses and look over there ...lies and smears and it's all a witch hunt ...
and by the way - chakrabarti [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 19:46]
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Go on. What was wrong with Chakrabarti’s report and recommendations?
Apart from it being too accurate, sensible and fair to be used against Corbyn and the left. [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 19:57]
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