| First sight of Brexit U-Turns 15:20 - Sep 24 with 3500 views | hype313 |
Fingers crossed Give it 3 months and we'll have adopted the Euro. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:28 - Sep 24 with 2401 views | Herbivore |
But none of this is anything to do with Brexit, apparently. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:51 - Sep 24 with 2328 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:28 - Sep 24 by Herbivore |
But none of this is anything to do with Brexit, apparently. |
Correct and I am pleased you recognise it as such. The RHA have been a predominately while middle aged male employer for years and certainly have not made any jobs available sufficiently attractive to the wider public. This will change now of course and Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland etc all have similar issues.
It is so easy for employers to blame outside influences when they should take more responsibility themselves. There is no shortage of London Tube Drivers - I wonder why! |  | | |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:54 - Sep 24 with 2299 views | chicoazul |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:51 - Sep 24 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Correct and I am pleased you recognise it as such. The RHA have been a predominately while middle aged male employer for years and certainly have not made any jobs available sufficiently attractive to the wider public. This will change now of course and Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland etc all have similar issues.
It is so easy for employers to blame outside influences when they should take more responsibility themselves. There is no shortage of London Tube Drivers - I wonder why! |
I’ll bite.
If it’s nothing to do with Brexit why are visa restrictions (probably) being lifted? |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:55 - Sep 24 with 2297 views | Herbivore |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:51 - Sep 24 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Correct and I am pleased you recognise it as such. The RHA have been a predominately while middle aged male employer for years and certainly have not made any jobs available sufficiently attractive to the wider public. This will change now of course and Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland etc all have similar issues.
It is so easy for employers to blame outside influences when they should take more responsibility themselves. There is no shortage of London Tube Drivers - I wonder why! |
Yeah, I was being sarcastic. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:02 - Sep 24 with 2258 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:55 - Sep 24 by Herbivore |
Yeah, I was being sarcastic. |
Hey H, and neither of us are that stupid, of course Brexit had an effect, but there was an issue long before Brexit came along. I would be churlish not to admit that both Brexit and Covid did the existing problem no favours at all.
I just do not like to see employers and their federations not taking there fair share of the responsibility and for not updating their terms and conditions to comply with the 21st century.
We will see much more of this I am afraid, but hey the important thing is we must get it solved. | | | |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:04 - Sep 24 with 2238 views | noggin |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:54 - Sep 24 by chicoazul |
I’ll bite.
If it’s nothing to do with Brexit why are visa restrictions (probably) being lifted? |
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRsDhC82/
Not just the drivers |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:10 - Sep 24 with 2203 views | Guthrum |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:51 - Sep 24 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Correct and I am pleased you recognise it as such. The RHA have been a predominately while middle aged male employer for years and certainly have not made any jobs available sufficiently attractive to the wider public. This will change now of course and Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland etc all have similar issues.
It is so easy for employers to blame outside influences when they should take more responsibility themselves. There is no shortage of London Tube Drivers - I wonder why! |
There are far fewer Tube drivers, the job is highly selective (being drawn only from staff already working on the underground, with no direct entry) and extremely well paid.
How, exactly, are road hauliers supposed to make sitting in the cab of a large vehicle carrying out demanding schedules of deliveries, often over long distances, attractive to "the wider public"? By its very nature, it's not a job all that many people want to do. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:19 - Sep 24 with 2145 views | bluelagos |
There are quite a few industries currently struggling to recruit staff, in part impacted by the reduction of European labour post brexit (Care work / hospitality / agricultural workers to name but three)
But such short term action to address these labour shortages requires those in power to accept there is an actual problem and thus far they have been very reluctant to do so, no doubt partly through their Brexit stance.
And if you are a Polish / Romanian worker why would you come to the UK when you can opt for Germany / France where you would also have the opportunity to stay for longer without Visa hassles?
Even Andrew Bridgen was talking sense on Newsnight yesterday (I know - I was gobsmacked) around the labour shortages in the haulage industry pointing out some of the structural issues the industry faces.
Strikes me that raising wages (though welcome) in any of these areas will just move employed staff around and create shortages elsewhere. Something seems messed up to me, especially given the 1m reported job vacancies.
Struggling to fully understand what is behind the current shortages in many sectors. Seems to be quite a few things happening at once. And lots of solutions seem to be merely moving the problem E.g. Hauliers raise wages for HGV drivers and councils struggle to collect the bins with drivers jumping into better paid contracts elsewhere. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:27 - Sep 24 with 2101 views | Pinewoodblue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:10 - Sep 24 by Guthrum |
There are far fewer Tube drivers, the job is highly selective (being drawn only from staff already working on the underground, with no direct entry) and extremely well paid.
How, exactly, are road hauliers supposed to make sitting in the cab of a large vehicle carrying out demanding schedules of deliveries, often over long distances, attractive to "the wider public"? By its very nature, it's not a job all that many people want to do. |
When we were in the EU a driver from Spain could deliver to a wharehouse in Glasgow, pick up a load there and deliver it to anywhere in UK instead of running empty back to the port. Presumably he will be able to do this again once a work visa is available. This will improve the situation but not significantly.
EU drivers working in UK prior to Brexit were eligible to apply for permission to stay and work in the UK. The number of people who sought permission to stay was several hundred thousand higher than expected.
the current situation is the result of excessive demand causing a shortage, Tesco had problems earlier in the week at 2 out of 500 petrol stations. BP had between 50-100 outlets where one, or more, pump was out of action. Probably higher than usual but it fairly common to find st Tesco Copdock several pumps out of action.
All scaremongering of the highest order made worse when politicians, who we know shouldn’t be believed, say there is no problem.
PS Just been in Aldi no signs of any empty shelved. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:28 - Sep 24 with 2093 views | ghostofescobar |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:02 - Sep 24 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Hey H, and neither of us are that stupid, of course Brexit had an effect, but there was an issue long before Brexit came along. I would be churlish not to admit that both Brexit and Covid did the existing problem no favours at all.
I just do not like to see employers and their federations not taking there fair share of the responsibility and for not updating their terms and conditions to comply with the 21st century.
We will see much more of this I am afraid, but hey the important thing is we must get it solved. |
You are a bit right. Ultimately, the buck stops with us, as consumers. As a society, we want everything cheaper and cheaper, so prices get driven ever downwards. The CEO isn't going to take a pay cut to carry on making the same profits. The shareholders aren't going to take a reduced dividend, so who pays? The little man: the drivers, the pickers, the shelf stackers - not only in wages, but because their employers also won't spend money on decent working conditions and benefits. We are beginning to reap what we sow in so many ways. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:30 - Sep 24 with 2076 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:10 - Sep 24 by Guthrum |
There are far fewer Tube drivers, the job is highly selective (being drawn only from staff already working on the underground, with no direct entry) and extremely well paid.
How, exactly, are road hauliers supposed to make sitting in the cab of a large vehicle carrying out demanding schedules of deliveries, often over long distances, attractive to "the wider public"? By its very nature, it's not a job all that many people want to do. |
Shorter hours, better 'nights away' rates, more attractive to women and younger folk (have you been in a lorry drivers depot recently), and pay that recognises the work, dedication and concentration needed. Also training facilities and opportunities that are clearly defined and obtainable.
It amazes me that only at the eleventh hour when supermarkets realised their reliance on these guys that they considerably lifted their salaries.
It can be a damn good job, they need to 'sell' it better. | | | |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:34 - Sep 24 with 2053 views | bluelagos |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:28 - Sep 24 by ghostofescobar |
You are a bit right. Ultimately, the buck stops with us, as consumers. As a society, we want everything cheaper and cheaper, so prices get driven ever downwards. The CEO isn't going to take a pay cut to carry on making the same profits. The shareholders aren't going to take a reduced dividend, so who pays? The little man: the drivers, the pickers, the shelf stackers - not only in wages, but because their employers also won't spend money on decent working conditions and benefits. We are beginning to reap what we sow in so many ways. |
Something in that - see consumers moaning about closed local shops on the High st whilst shopping at Supermarkets.
But take petrol retail. Show me a company that trades with slightly higher prices and better t&cs for their employees? And if there was one, how many people would use them anyway? (Which is your point)
The system drives down costs and we all pretty much accept that. Don't see that changing any time soon tbh.
Ethical buying has been focused on the source of the materials (environmental factors) rather than employee treatment, except maybe things like fairtrade coffee. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:40 - Sep 24 with 2019 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:28 - Sep 24 by ghostofescobar |
You are a bit right. Ultimately, the buck stops with us, as consumers. As a society, we want everything cheaper and cheaper, so prices get driven ever downwards. The CEO isn't going to take a pay cut to carry on making the same profits. The shareholders aren't going to take a reduced dividend, so who pays? The little man: the drivers, the pickers, the shelf stackers - not only in wages, but because their employers also won't spend money on decent working conditions and benefits. We are beginning to reap what we sow in so many ways. |
Something tells me that I would like in part to disagree with you, but I can't!
The main part I agree with is yes we reap what we sow - the ability to purchase inexpensive food in the UK (which in the main it has been) comes at a price. That price is lower wages for the 'little man'
We all have to take responsibility for that. There are roughly 65 million people in the UK and I believe 650 MP's - we can control our own destiny much better. | | | |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 17:09 - Sep 24 with 1919 views | Guthrum |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:30 - Sep 24 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Shorter hours, better 'nights away' rates, more attractive to women and younger folk (have you been in a lorry drivers depot recently), and pay that recognises the work, dedication and concentration needed. Also training facilities and opportunities that are clearly defined and obtainable.
It amazes me that only at the eleventh hour when supermarkets realised their reliance on these guys that they considerably lifted their salaries.
It can be a damn good job, they need to 'sell' it better. |
Would probably help if agencies didn't try to force unrealistic schedules, too. Has happened to friends of mine who do or have worked as lorry drivers. [Post edited 24 Sep 2021 17:10]
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 17:15 - Sep 24 with 1899 views | Guthrum |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:27 - Sep 24 by Pinewoodblue |
When we were in the EU a driver from Spain could deliver to a wharehouse in Glasgow, pick up a load there and deliver it to anywhere in UK instead of running empty back to the port. Presumably he will be able to do this again once a work visa is available. This will improve the situation but not significantly.
EU drivers working in UK prior to Brexit were eligible to apply for permission to stay and work in the UK. The number of people who sought permission to stay was several hundred thousand higher than expected.
the current situation is the result of excessive demand causing a shortage, Tesco had problems earlier in the week at 2 out of 500 petrol stations. BP had between 50-100 outlets where one, or more, pump was out of action. Probably higher than usual but it fairly common to find st Tesco Copdock several pumps out of action.
All scaremongering of the highest order made worse when politicians, who we know shouldn’t be believed, say there is no problem.
PS Just been in Aldi no signs of any empty shelved. |
I've seen empty shelves here in Gloucestershire (particularly the chilled meat section of supermarkets). However, I agree panic buying has a part to play in that.
Also problems with DIY stores/builders merchants running out of pretty basic things, like studwork timber, plasterboard, or cement. Combination of very high demand and issues with supply. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 17:27 - Sep 24 with 1863 views | Guthrum |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:19 - Sep 24 by bluelagos |
There are quite a few industries currently struggling to recruit staff, in part impacted by the reduction of European labour post brexit (Care work / hospitality / agricultural workers to name but three)
But such short term action to address these labour shortages requires those in power to accept there is an actual problem and thus far they have been very reluctant to do so, no doubt partly through their Brexit stance.
And if you are a Polish / Romanian worker why would you come to the UK when you can opt for Germany / France where you would also have the opportunity to stay for longer without Visa hassles?
Even Andrew Bridgen was talking sense on Newsnight yesterday (I know - I was gobsmacked) around the labour shortages in the haulage industry pointing out some of the structural issues the industry faces.
Strikes me that raising wages (though welcome) in any of these areas will just move employed staff around and create shortages elsewhere. Something seems messed up to me, especially given the 1m reported job vacancies.
Struggling to fully understand what is behind the current shortages in many sectors. Seems to be quite a few things happening at once. And lots of solutions seem to be merely moving the problem E.g. Hauliers raise wages for HGV drivers and councils struggle to collect the bins with drivers jumping into better paid contracts elsewhere. |
Raising wages also significantly increases costs for employers, which is a problem in businesses (e.g. agriculture) where margins are often tight. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 18:02 - Sep 24 with 1762 views | Clapham_Junction |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 17:27 - Sep 24 by Guthrum |
Raising wages also significantly increases costs for employers, which is a problem in businesses (e.g. agriculture) where margins are often tight. |
On a related note, one thing that's at the back of my mind for a while is what's going to happen in the next couple of decades when a lot of the farmers start dying off. All the ones round my Dad's way are in their sixties and none of the next generation have gone into farming. |  | | |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 20:08 - Sep 24 with 1548 views | Swansea_Blue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 16:10 - Sep 24 by Guthrum |
There are far fewer Tube drivers, the job is highly selective (being drawn only from staff already working on the underground, with no direct entry) and extremely well paid.
How, exactly, are road hauliers supposed to make sitting in the cab of a large vehicle carrying out demanding schedules of deliveries, often over long distances, attractive to "the wider public"? By its very nature, it's not a job all that many people want to do. |
Well they are given a huge air horn. That would swing it for me!
In the long run maybe this will all focus minds and drivers will get better conditions and pay. I’m cynical about the chances of that though, as in our pile it high, sell it cheap society companies are going to be reluctant to pass the extra costs on to consumers.
Even if it does become a more appealing career, notwithstanding the loneliness and antisocial hours, that won’t help us any time soon. Relaxing immigration rules seem the only option now, and that may not work as it will still be a poor second to freedom of movement.
Still, it’s going to be amusing seeing people who’ve refused to acknowledge that Brexit has been the main reason why we’re doing worse that other EU countries*, now come to terms with more immigration being the proposed answer.
*that doesn’t mean Brexit is the only or even main problem, but rather the straw that broke this particular camel’s back. |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 20:17 - Sep 24 with 1526 views | Swansea_Blue |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 15:28 - Sep 24 by Herbivore |
But none of this is anything to do with Brexit, apparently. |
I suspect this will actually start to hurt them. They’ve been desperate to avoid acknowledging any negatives of Brexit. And desperate to hide it from their supporters. Their friendly media have helped with that too, which is why we’ve seen such stark contrast between some headlines and reality (take the latest farce over the US-UK trade deal discussions for example).
We’ll see. It’s going to take a lot to get through to some people. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 20:21 - Sep 24 with 1519 views | Herbivore |
Indeed, in fact Brexit isn't to blame for anything at all. It's all gone swimmingly thus far. Every problem we're facing is down to something else entirely unrelated to Brexit. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 20:55 - Sep 24 with 1474 views | Bluedicea |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 20:21 - Sep 24 by Herbivore |
Indeed, in fact Brexit isn't to blame for anything at all. It's all gone swimmingly thus far. Every problem we're facing is down to something else entirely unrelated to Brexit. |
I wouldn't say that.
Brexit is causing issues and it is exacerbating issues in other areas for sure. The problem is there's lots of issues lately, which Covid has made worse, issues that have been building for years.
It's a culmination of different events coming together, often historical, not a sole cause. In a few years we will have a clearer picture of exactly what happened, until then it's just supposition and guesswork.
I have no doubt Brexit will eventually be seen to be a bad thing, but I truly believe we should all try to make the best of a bad situation and maybe, just maybe we can change the future for the better.
Look at history everywhere, the most common theme is things have to get really bad for change to really happen, will Brexit be the tipping point? We shall see. |  |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 21:24 - Sep 24 with 1413 views | bluelagos |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 17:27 - Sep 24 by Guthrum |
Raising wages also significantly increases costs for employers, which is a problem in businesses (e.g. agriculture) where margins are often tight. |
Raising wages, like fuel or any other input will be inflationary, absolutely.
But say we all pay 5-10% more for our food and it means agricultural workers / lorry drivers / retail staff get more fairly rewarded...has to be a good thing imho.
Many businesses have treated employees as little more than commodities and sort to squeeze as much out of them as they can. Time for a rethink perhaps. | |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 21:58 - Sep 24 with 1368 views | Melford |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 17:15 - Sep 24 by Guthrum |
I've seen empty shelves here in Gloucestershire (particularly the chilled meat section of supermarkets). However, I agree panic buying has a part to play in that.
Also problems with DIY stores/builders merchants running out of pretty basic things, like studwork timber, plasterboard, or cement. Combination of very high demand and issues with supply. |
I use Bidfoods and Bookers for frozen and dry goods, plus all of our spirits and bottled beers. At the moment about 1/3 of what I order is out of stock/unavailable, big section on the top of the invoice when I check the delivery in. Normally you would have one or two short items a month.
I did do a bit of panic buying though. The butcher turned up today with 20 boned and rolled Turkey joints, got half a chest freezer full, so if there is any shortages or the price gets silly closer to Xmas I'm sorted for it. Did that this morning and went home this afternoon and read this so maybe I was right to do it.
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/sep/24/boris-johnson-asked-for-emergency-f |  |
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| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 22:03 - Sep 24 with 1341 views | bluelagos |
| First sight of Brexit U-Turns on 21:58 - Sep 24 by Melford |
I use Bidfoods and Bookers for frozen and dry goods, plus all of our spirits and bottled beers. At the moment about 1/3 of what I order is out of stock/unavailable, big section on the top of the invoice when I check the delivery in. Normally you would have one or two short items a month.
I did do a bit of panic buying though. The butcher turned up today with 20 boned and rolled Turkey joints, got half a chest freezer full, so if there is any shortages or the price gets silly closer to Xmas I'm sorted for it. Did that this morning and went home this afternoon and read this so maybe I was right to do it.
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/sep/24/boris-johnson-asked-for-emergency-f |
Let's hope it's Turkeys, assuming this bloke knows what he's on about.
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