| Hope everyone is ready 08:06 - Sep 27 with 8845 views | chicoazul |
…for the rolling blackouts, meat rationing, bins collected once a month, fuel shortages, price inflation, and materials shortages of the next 7 months.
Never mind petrol; start panic buying warm blankets.
Still at least Greta will be happy. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:10 - Sep 27 with 3071 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
#savechristmasagain |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:11 - Sep 27 with 3081 views | Herbivore |
Meat rationing should have started years ago. Current levels of meat consumption are killing the planet. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:13 - Sep 27 with 3053 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:11 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat rationing should have started years ago. Current levels of meat consumption are killing the planet. |
#prayfortheturkeypluckers | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:13 - Sep 27 with 3059 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:11 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat rationing should have started years ago. Current levels of meat consumption are killing the planet. |
I sort of agree, but I think rather than rationed it should be much more expensive. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:15 - Sep 27 with 3048 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:13 - Sep 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
#prayfortheturkeypluckers |
Paul Kelly if Kelly Turkeys is a good friend of a friend of mine. He, along with practically every other farmer in Essex and Suffolk, voted Leave. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:16 - Sep 27 with 3035 views | bluelagos |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:13 - Sep 27 by chicoazul |
I sort of agree, but I think rather than rationed it should be much more expensive. |
So only the wealthy can have Turkey? |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:38 - Sep 27 with 2958 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:13 - Sep 27 by chicoazul |
I sort of agree, but I think rather than rationed it should be much more expensive. |
If it's produced in a way that is remotely sustainsble it would be both more scarce and much more expensive. People care more about cheap burgers than they do about saving the planet. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:43 - Sep 27 with 2921 views | Dubtractor |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:11 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat rationing should have started years ago. Current levels of meat consumption are killing the planet. |
Even as a meat eater, I strongly ensorse this view. Also Chico makes a good point. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:45 - Sep 27 with 2902 views | DanTheMan |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:16 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
So only the wealthy can have Turkey? |
I think it's more that everyone can have Turkey, but not everyone can have Turkey for every single meal. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:54 - Sep 27 with 2855 views | bluelagos |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:45 - Sep 27 by DanTheMan |
I think it's more that everyone can have Turkey, but not everyone can have Turkey for every single meal. |
Have no ssues with us all eating less meat, like less flying, the environmental issues are compelling.
But how do we change behaviour? By pricing the product out of the reach for the poor, or by rationing the product?
I'd gor for rationing everytime. Or progressive pricing, first flight per year has a £100 tax, 2nd £1k, 3rd £10k... | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 08:57 - Sep 27 with 2839 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
#boll0ckstochristmas. |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:04 - Sep 27 with 2802 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:16 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
So only the wealthy can have Turkey? |
Meat should be a luxury item and occasional treat and I say this as someone who loves them a steak and a burger. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:10 - Sep 27 with 2755 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:38 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
If it's produced in a way that is remotely sustainsble it would be both more scarce and much more expensive. People care more about cheap burgers than they do about saving the planet. |
Is it possible to do this sort of thing sustainably? Given the levels of consumption? It’s consumption levels that need to change. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 with 2735 views | Darth_Koont |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:11 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat rationing should have started years ago. Current levels of meat consumption are killing the planet. |
On a related note I was listening to a Freakonomics podcast and the economics of burning and clearing the Amazon for cattle are ridiculous.
Cutting out beef entirely would make massive inroads in CO2 emissions but making Amazonian exploitation uneconomical would make a massive difference on its own. The grazing conditions in these areas are so poor and unproductive that it might cost as little as $10 billion a year to pay off Brazilian cattle farmers and local economies and they’d make more money leaving the Amazon alone.
10 billion is nothing on a global scale. In fact, we’d spaff almost 4 times that on a shonky Track and Trace system without even thinking. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 with 2735 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:10 - Sep 27 by chicoazul |
Is it possible to do this sort of thing sustainably? Given the levels of consumption? It’s consumption levels that need to change. |
There's some evidence that small scale meat production can be sustainable but we're talking everyone moving to eating meat once a month to get there, possibly less frequently than that. People aren't willing to make that kind of sacrifice by and large. Dairy would also need to be drastically cut back on too. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:15 - Sep 27 with 2725 views | bluefunk |
Is this like your prediction for panic in world stock markets last week? |  | | |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:20 - Sep 27 with 2686 views | hype313 |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
There's some evidence that small scale meat production can be sustainable but we're talking everyone moving to eating meat once a month to get there, possibly less frequently than that. People aren't willing to make that kind of sacrifice by and large. Dairy would also need to be drastically cut back on too. |
I was having a chat at the weekend with a friend who is in farming and he mentioned the parallels between HGV drivers and farmers i.e. the demographic is of a certain age, both industries don't have the youngsters coming through due to the nature of the job
So, a by product of that will be less farming, less meat and dairy and probably more expensive products.
We collectively need to wean ourselves away from meat, certainly everyday going forward, but as we have seen with the Petrol issue, we still have a mentality of "I'll do what I want" and b00locks to the rest. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:24 - Sep 27 with 2633 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:15 - Sep 27 by bluefunk |
Is this like your prediction for panic in world stock markets last week? |
Panic? | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:27 - Sep 27 with 2603 views | Guthrum |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
There's some evidence that small scale meat production can be sustainable but we're talking everyone moving to eating meat once a month to get there, possibly less frequently than that. People aren't willing to make that kind of sacrifice by and large. Dairy would also need to be drastically cut back on too. |
It's not just about how often we eat meat, but about how much we have in each meal. It's the old thing of filling up on potatoes and vegetables, with just a bit of meat for taste.
Also eating as much of the animal/bird as possible, not just the prime cuts* and throwing away the rest.
* Remember some years ago my mother cooking a turkey at Christmas. The packaging said "serves six", but she reckoned she got about 35 person-meals out of it (hot, cold, pie, paste for sandwiches), plus boiling up the bones for stock. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:31 - Sep 27 with 2577 views | Darth_Koont |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:54 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
Have no ssues with us all eating less meat, like less flying, the environmental issues are compelling.
But how do we change behaviour? By pricing the product out of the reach for the poor, or by rationing the product?
I'd gor for rationing everytime. Or progressive pricing, first flight per year has a £100 tax, 2nd £1k, 3rd £10k... |
I think you change behaviour by taking the low-hanging fruit first and small steps.
Putting aside the health and ethical issues around eating meat, beef and dairy have the biggest negative effects on the environment. And it’s very little to do with cattle transport or farming methods either. The sheer act of converting plant calories into beef or dairy calories is ridiculously inefficient and the CO2 burden way too excessive.
It’s pretty easy to cut out beef completely. But if you can’t do without your roast beef or steak, at least cut out cheap burgers or mince where there are loads of alternatives that have no difference in taste, in fact many taste better.
Similarly with dairy it was surprisingly easy to stop buying milk and use Oatly instead. With tea, coffee and cereal etc. the taste change is fairly negligible. I struggle with cheese but trying different stuff.
Steps like these are tiny, incredibly easy and make a difference. And I think once you start you can reappraise a lot more of these micro-choices and see really how easy they are. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:33 - Sep 27 with 2566 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
There's some evidence that small scale meat production can be sustainable but we're talking everyone moving to eating meat once a month to get there, possibly less frequently than that. People aren't willing to make that kind of sacrifice by and large. Dairy would also need to be drastically cut back on too. |
#pigeonsrabbitsvenison
#poachersrus
Edit....imagine those smiling faces as you carve the Christmas pigeon! [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 9:35]
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:40 - Sep 27 with 2525 views | bluelagos |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:31 - Sep 27 by Darth_Koont |
I think you change behaviour by taking the low-hanging fruit first and small steps.
Putting aside the health and ethical issues around eating meat, beef and dairy have the biggest negative effects on the environment. And it’s very little to do with cattle transport or farming methods either. The sheer act of converting plant calories into beef or dairy calories is ridiculously inefficient and the CO2 burden way too excessive.
It’s pretty easy to cut out beef completely. But if you can’t do without your roast beef or steak, at least cut out cheap burgers or mince where there are loads of alternatives that have no difference in taste, in fact many taste better.
Similarly with dairy it was surprisingly easy to stop buying milk and use Oatly instead. With tea, coffee and cereal etc. the taste change is fairly negligible. I struggle with cheese but trying different stuff.
Steps like these are tiny, incredibly easy and make a difference. And I think once you start you can reappraise a lot more of these micro-choices and see really how easy they are. |
Am sold on the need for lots of change in how we go about our lives.
The question I pose is "Is it reasonable to do so purely on price - thus forcing change on the poorest and leaving the wealthy to carry on as before?"
The proposal on flights seems easy to do. But for normal consumer goods (like meats/dairy) am not sure how we can bring change in a fair manner... | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:52 - Sep 27 with 2483 views | Guthrum |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 by Darth_Koont |
On a related note I was listening to a Freakonomics podcast and the economics of burning and clearing the Amazon for cattle are ridiculous.
Cutting out beef entirely would make massive inroads in CO2 emissions but making Amazonian exploitation uneconomical would make a massive difference on its own. The grazing conditions in these areas are so poor and unproductive that it might cost as little as $10 billion a year to pay off Brazilian cattle farmers and local economies and they’d make more money leaving the Amazon alone.
10 billion is nothing on a global scale. In fact, we’d spaff almost 4 times that on a shonky Track and Trace system without even thinking. |
That would require everyone to acknowlege it is a global problem and pitch in. Plus, in practical terms, for countries not to blub and sulk because others refuse to contribute. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 09:57 - Sep 27 with 2457 views | Darth_Koont |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:40 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
Am sold on the need for lots of change in how we go about our lives.
The question I pose is "Is it reasonable to do so purely on price - thus forcing change on the poorest and leaving the wealthy to carry on as before?"
The proposal on flights seems easy to do. But for normal consumer goods (like meats/dairy) am not sure how we can bring change in a fair manner... |
Price could work if we were committed to a carbon tax. But agree that if we’re talking staple diet or life’s necessities then the poor will pay a heftier price relatively.
But like smoking cigarettes, it shouldn’t be cheap to eat beef. That can be discouraged pretty easily by setting a more realistic price/cost to it. And perhaps even subsidising beef and dairy alternatives.
I think it’s all sorts of nudges that can do it. Norms change, health is a bigger issue, the demand for alternatives and innovation increases and slowly but surely, I think the average person’s diet can change dramatically within just a few years. It’s happened before with things like pasta. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 10:52 - Sep 27 with 2362 views | Darth_Koont |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:52 - Sep 27 by Guthrum |
That would require everyone to acknowlege it is a global problem and pitch in. Plus, in practical terms, for countries not to blub and sulk because others refuse to contribute. |
True. But don’t almost all countries acknowledge it? And would still be a drop in the ocean for G7 countries or the EU etc. to foot the bill and show leadership.
Plus the increased cost of not doing so could run into the trillions worldwide. | |
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