| I don't know where I stand with Cook 08:25 - Oct 3 with 2771 views | hype313 |
Its a bizarre place to be because normally its so black and white.
He seems to be happy with dying on his 4-2-3-1 formation when we can all see how isolated Bonne has been, in fact Bonne has been so desperate for the ball he's starting to do similar to Harry Kane by dropping deep therefore leaving no one in the box for subsequent attacks. This isn't a dig btw, its testament to Bonne for trying his level best.
If he is to succeed then he has to start looking at Plan B, C etc as we have the players to play a variety of formations, its so painful to see his dogmatic approach.
Maybe I'm just so over another sacking and getting in another new manager, which is putting me on the fence and blinding me from the obvious.
I said after Bolton he needed 3 more games, we got a good return of 7 from 9 but yesterday was so abject, no desire, fight or cohesion that its left me a bit baffled.
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:36 - Oct 3 with 2097 views | gordon |
The problem is the lack of adaptability - for me in a game like that there's really no point in anyone playing as a no. 10 to start off with, but even then if we start with Harper in the no. 10 position, then if we're struggling to get hold of the game, Harper just drops in alongside Morsy and Evans to make it a three (Fraser could do this as well, but suspect Harper a bit more effective). |  | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:40 - Oct 3 with 2063 views | hype313 |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:36 - Oct 3 by gordon |
The problem is the lack of adaptability - for me in a game like that there's really no point in anyone playing as a no. 10 to start off with, but even then if we start with Harper in the no. 10 position, then if we're struggling to get hold of the game, Harper just drops in alongside Morsy and Evans to make it a three (Fraser could do this as well, but suspect Harper a bit more effective). |
That's where the frustration lies, his in game management isn't working, even if we are getting overrun or out battled he won't change anything until its too late.
A few weeks ago Mark Warburton changed things after 35 minutes having gone 2-0 down, he could see the issues and addressed them (this isn't a dig at Andre btw) that's what insightful managers do, which is why I have concerns with Cook. | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:45 - Oct 3 with 2039 views | Herbivore |
The inability to change things is a big worry. It's also a concern how often we come out for the second half and don't really get going and let the opposition back into the game. I'm still not sure I fully understand how Cook is wanting us to play either, we still see a lot of slow passing along the back and then lumping it forward like we did under Lambert and we're not picking CBs who are suited to getting us playing out from the back. Same goes for Donacien, solid defender but not the best at playing us out of tight situations. I'm not really sure what it is we're building towards. |  |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:20 - Oct 3 with 1915 views | chrismakin |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:45 - Oct 3 by Herbivore |
The inability to change things is a big worry. It's also a concern how often we come out for the second half and don't really get going and let the opposition back into the game. I'm still not sure I fully understand how Cook is wanting us to play either, we still see a lot of slow passing along the back and then lumping it forward like we did under Lambert and we're not picking CBs who are suited to getting us playing out from the back. Same goes for Donacien, solid defender but not the best at playing us out of tight situations. I'm not really sure what it is we're building towards. |
Completely agree, I said last night, i'm still yet to see a town side play the way PC has had his sides play the previous years. It just doesn't match up, especially when he's been able to bring in 19 players to do what he wants it to do. |  |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:50 - Oct 3 with 1869 views | hype313 |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:45 - Oct 3 by Herbivore |
The inability to change things is a big worry. It's also a concern how often we come out for the second half and don't really get going and let the opposition back into the game. I'm still not sure I fully understand how Cook is wanting us to play either, we still see a lot of slow passing along the back and then lumping it forward like we did under Lambert and we're not picking CBs who are suited to getting us playing out from the back. Same goes for Donacien, solid defender but not the best at playing us out of tight situations. I'm not really sure what it is we're building towards. |
Nail on head with that Fully understand how Cook is wanting us to play.
Either he's struggling to implement it or the players don't. | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:52 - Oct 3 with 1859 views | chicoazul |
I wouldn’t sack him because I don’t see the point. Any new manager unless it’s a big big name like Lampard will immediately be on the back foot with the senior players who signed for Cook. And changing managers has not worked for us for years and years and in fact has made us worse every time. I don’t see any good choices here just less bad ones and I think keeping Cook would be the least bad. So I say keep him for the season at least as long as it doesn’t look like we are going down which, yes, I know, is currently a possibility. Cook has an excellent track record of success in this league and that buys him time for me to mould this expensive gang of individuals into something like a team.
But hey loads of you told me that getting relegated last time could be the best thing for the club. Maybe a good dose of League 2 would be just what we need! |  |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:04 - Oct 3 with 1829 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:20 - Oct 3 by chrismakin |
Completely agree, I said last night, i'm still yet to see a town side play the way PC has had his sides play the previous years. It just doesn't match up, especially when he's been able to bring in 19 players to do what he wants it to do. |
"it doesn't match up". Maybe you are not comparing like with like. The thinking is that Town are managed by Paul Cook, and he was successful elsewhere, so why shouldn't he be equally as successful at Town? However, it wasn't Paul Cook who was successful elsewhere, but him and Leam Richardson together. Think Clough without Taylor. Richardson seems a success without PC. PC wanted Richardson after he was appointed here, but has done little or nothing to find an adequate replacement, leaving the position of assistant manager unoccupied. So, maybe Paul Cook cannot be a success without whatever it was that Richardson brought to the table. Hope not, but it does seem that way. Should Cook and/or Ashton be looking for a good AM? |  | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:25 - Oct 3 with 1776 views | BlueBadger |
Cook's record now reads as follows... by BlueBadger 2 Oct 2021 17:05I mean, I'm not sure I want to see him go yet, but I can't say that I'd be too upset to see him leave. He's had similar resources to Keane and succeeded in only replicating Keane's results, right now.
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:28 - Oct 3 with 1766 views | hype313 |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:25 - Oct 3 by BlueBadger |
Cook's record now reads as follows... by BlueBadger 2 Oct 2021 17:05I mean, I'm not sure I want to see him go yet, but I can't say that I'd be too upset to see him leave. He's had similar resources to Keane and succeeded in only replicating Keane's results, right now.
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Yep, kinda where I am, but it does feel a bit no mans land. | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:32 - Oct 3 with 1750 views | BlueBadger |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:28 - Oct 3 by hype313 |
Yep, kinda where I am, but it does feel a bit no mans land. |
Theoretically, I can still be won over, but it feels somewhat unlikely before we hit Roy Keane Event Horizon(15 games into a season, broadly a failure). | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 10:51 - Oct 3 with 1712 views | GlasgowBlue |
I don't have an issue with his formation. And it’s certainly getting the best out of Bonne. When it works, it works well.
My issue is his inability to change a game with substitutions. He doesn’t bring them on quick enough and seems to be out coached during the 90 minutes by less experienced and less successful managers.
Let’s be honest, the reason for these issues was pinpointed early on. He doesn’t have a tactically clued up assistant.
Cook may be a great motivator and he may be able to spit a good player but the hill he has chosen to die on is his stubbornness not to replace Liam Richardson with an experienced assistant,
It will cost him job in the next week or so. Which is a damn shame as he’s desperate to do well for us. And we are desperate for him to do well for us. [Post edited 3 Oct 2021 11:10]
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 11:04 - Oct 3 with 1682 views | wkj |
Im not to upset with yesterday in many ways. I hate the result, but it was never going to be the right conditions for a fun football game.
However, the way my opinion on Cook sits at the moment is that he's got a lot more going against him than he has going for him. At this stage, I wont be sad to see him go (if he does) - but I am not acting like a knob on social media begging the owners to fire him either. |  |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 11:06 - Oct 3 with 1673 views | ElephantintheRoom |
I'm surprised your surprised at the orchestrated chaos.
I was reading a story about the happy Hammers putting up a statue commemorating their victory in the Cup Winners Cup in 1965. Bobby Moore felt it was his greatest moment in football because it was like playing with his school team. The point of the tale was that the entire team cam from within a bus ride of the stadium - and most had grown up together for many years. It takes years to develop a team.
Trawling the reject and opportunist market whilst demoralising your incumbents was never a good idea and simply cannot work in the short term. Nor can trying to recreat Bristol City or Wigan at a decaying market town club on the other side of the country,
Best to be a tad patient I suspect. |  |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 12:15 - Oct 3 with 1547 views | LankHenners |
It's all a bit weird, I've said several times that taking a step back there's nothing to suggest we should be struggling *this* badly. We don't have or need to go back through all the managerial appointments over the last decade or so but in recent years Hurst you can say failed because rather than a good up and coming young manager he was simply a decent lower level one and the job was too big for him, Lambert was a busted flush who stopped caring about the club and was kept in the job too long, but Cook is pretty much a guaranteed winning machine for this division but can't get it to work here.
The formation shouldn't be a problem - he's had success with it everywhere but it's just not functioning properly. We don't press well enough as a team and end up just chasing the opposition around and we don't move the ball quickly enough to pull the opposition about so we end up plodding around with it until we waste a long ball forwards.
Through form or injury he's playing his 2nd choice full backs who aren't as dynamic going forwards as his 1st choice which does limit how he'd ideally have them play but it has made us (until yesterday) a more solid side defensively. That we can't get the balance right there is on the coaching staff. I'm not convinced he's got the CBs he really wants in terms of attributes in there either. Burgess can clearly be a big solid defender and likewise Edmundson's capable of putting in good blocks etc. but whilst the latter does occasionally move with the ball a bit they're both behind Woolfenden in the 'ball playing CB' role but he's clearly relegated to back-up duties at the moment. At every club he's always had at least one good, capable ball-playing CB at the back, whether it's Liam Cooper, Dan Bun, Adam Webster, Matt Clarke but given how late in the window these positions were sorted there's a nagging thought that, respectfully, these two were further down the target list than Cook/Ashton would've liked to go down.
Morsy and Evans are Cook stalwarts so there shouldn't be a problem there but the former's come in very late and can't do it by himself whilst the latter's had a disrupted pre-season and has looked (bar Doncaster) a little under-cooked so far. The attacking talent is brilliant and in moments have showed that whilst Bonne has been more than superb but as a whole we can't get them into the game for long enough spells to properly do damage (unless they're crap enough to roll over and take it like Doncaster).
All this stuff ultimately rests at the feet of the coaching staff and though Cook keeps repeating that it takes time on the training pitch to get things how you want/need them to be, and that is undoubtedly true, we and he are very quickly running out of time for everyone to get with the picture.
It's a real shame on two parts - I believe he's a very genuine bloke and whilst he's prone to coming out with some right gibberish he very much wants to do well, but more pressingly it's an expensive team that he's assembled with several players who have said they've only dropped down a division/rejected higher up offers to play for him and if he goes we'll have to have someone new having to manage that which will be a massive pain for everyone. It'll only take a few players to start wondering what on earth they've done and regret not staying put at the club we bought them from or accepting an offer from someone else and suddenly it'll go right through the playing staff and you've got a demotivated squad that just can't perform and the whole thing will be a massive waste and we have to start all over again.
That ended up being longer than I anticipated but I just find the whole thing thoroughly frustrating. |  |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 19:29 - Oct 3 with 1269 views | SamWhiteUK |
Bonne has 8 goals in like 10 games. What a strange point to open with - him and his position are the least of our worries |  | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 19:36 - Oct 3 with 1241 views | hype313 |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 19:29 - Oct 3 by SamWhiteUK |
Bonne has 8 goals in like 10 games. What a strange point to open with - him and his position are the least of our worries |
What an odd post.
And to be fair given your "Mings was a good signing for us financially, but would you have him back now? I wouldn't" comment, I kinda take your posts with a pinch of salt. [Post edited 3 Oct 2021 19:39]
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 20:39 - Oct 3 with 1146 views | patrickswell |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 12:15 - Oct 3 by LankHenners |
It's all a bit weird, I've said several times that taking a step back there's nothing to suggest we should be struggling *this* badly. We don't have or need to go back through all the managerial appointments over the last decade or so but in recent years Hurst you can say failed because rather than a good up and coming young manager he was simply a decent lower level one and the job was too big for him, Lambert was a busted flush who stopped caring about the club and was kept in the job too long, but Cook is pretty much a guaranteed winning machine for this division but can't get it to work here.
The formation shouldn't be a problem - he's had success with it everywhere but it's just not functioning properly. We don't press well enough as a team and end up just chasing the opposition around and we don't move the ball quickly enough to pull the opposition about so we end up plodding around with it until we waste a long ball forwards.
Through form or injury he's playing his 2nd choice full backs who aren't as dynamic going forwards as his 1st choice which does limit how he'd ideally have them play but it has made us (until yesterday) a more solid side defensively. That we can't get the balance right there is on the coaching staff. I'm not convinced he's got the CBs he really wants in terms of attributes in there either. Burgess can clearly be a big solid defender and likewise Edmundson's capable of putting in good blocks etc. but whilst the latter does occasionally move with the ball a bit they're both behind Woolfenden in the 'ball playing CB' role but he's clearly relegated to back-up duties at the moment. At every club he's always had at least one good, capable ball-playing CB at the back, whether it's Liam Cooper, Dan Bun, Adam Webster, Matt Clarke but given how late in the window these positions were sorted there's a nagging thought that, respectfully, these two were further down the target list than Cook/Ashton would've liked to go down.
Morsy and Evans are Cook stalwarts so there shouldn't be a problem there but the former's come in very late and can't do it by himself whilst the latter's had a disrupted pre-season and has looked (bar Doncaster) a little under-cooked so far. The attacking talent is brilliant and in moments have showed that whilst Bonne has been more than superb but as a whole we can't get them into the game for long enough spells to properly do damage (unless they're crap enough to roll over and take it like Doncaster).
All this stuff ultimately rests at the feet of the coaching staff and though Cook keeps repeating that it takes time on the training pitch to get things how you want/need them to be, and that is undoubtedly true, we and he are very quickly running out of time for everyone to get with the picture.
It's a real shame on two parts - I believe he's a very genuine bloke and whilst he's prone to coming out with some right gibberish he very much wants to do well, but more pressingly it's an expensive team that he's assembled with several players who have said they've only dropped down a division/rejected higher up offers to play for him and if he goes we'll have to have someone new having to manage that which will be a massive pain for everyone. It'll only take a few players to start wondering what on earth they've done and regret not staying put at the club we bought them from or accepting an offer from someone else and suddenly it'll go right through the playing staff and you've got a demotivated squad that just can't perform and the whole thing will be a massive waste and we have to start all over again.
That ended up being longer than I anticipated but I just find the whole thing thoroughly frustrating. |
A few people have made the point about how Cook signings would react to a new manager coming in. If it happens in the next week or so, then said new manager can just point to the league table as the reason why they are there. This isn't Paul Hurst making a step up from League One and choosing to start pre-season by getting into a war with a squad who had finished in the top half of the Championship for 4 out of the last 5 seasons. |  | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:26 - Oct 4 with 1005 views | SamWhiteUK |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 19:36 - Oct 3 by hype313 |
What an odd post.
And to be fair given your "Mings was a good signing for us financially, but would you have him back now? I wouldn't" comment, I kinda take your posts with a pinch of salt. [Post edited 3 Oct 2021 19:39]
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How on earth was that an odd comment? | | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:48 - Oct 4 with 946 views | BondiBlue |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:52 - Oct 3 by chicoazul |
I wouldn’t sack him because I don’t see the point. Any new manager unless it’s a big big name like Lampard will immediately be on the back foot with the senior players who signed for Cook. And changing managers has not worked for us for years and years and in fact has made us worse every time. I don’t see any good choices here just less bad ones and I think keeping Cook would be the least bad. So I say keep him for the season at least as long as it doesn’t look like we are going down which, yes, I know, is currently a possibility. Cook has an excellent track record of success in this league and that buys him time for me to mould this expensive gang of individuals into something like a team.
But hey loads of you told me that getting relegated last time could be the best thing for the club. Maybe a good dose of League 2 would be just what we need! |
Yes, but...
It was his call to change all of the players. I think that should count against him rather than be some sort of mitigating circumstance that explains why we're losing and he needs more time. Not all of those players had to be released and not all of the budget he received had to be spent. For example i doubt that Holy, Wilson or Bishop would have done any worse than their expensive replacements, and it may have helped the new ones settle in. | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:57 - Oct 4 with 925 views | chicoazul |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 08:48 - Oct 4 by BondiBlue |
Yes, but...
It was his call to change all of the players. I think that should count against him rather than be some sort of mitigating circumstance that explains why we're losing and he needs more time. Not all of those players had to be released and not all of the budget he received had to be spent. For example i doubt that Holy, Wilson or Bishop would have done any worse than their expensive replacements, and it may have helped the new ones settle in. |
A fair point. I don’t think things needed to be as ripped apart as they were. Someone said the other day this is a Championship squad and it may well be but that league and this are pretty much night and day. | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:00 - Oct 4 with 920 views | Churchman |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 20:39 - Oct 3 by patrickswell |
A few people have made the point about how Cook signings would react to a new manager coming in. If it happens in the next week or so, then said new manager can just point to the league table as the reason why they are there. This isn't Paul Hurst making a step up from League One and choosing to start pre-season by getting into a war with a squad who had finished in the top half of the Championship for 4 out of the last 5 seasons. |
I think it’s an interesting point about the players signing for Cook. If or more likely when he’s fired, what are the players going to do? Stop playing? Two paltry wins in ten games suggests they’re not doing much of that anyway.
They are meant to be professional footballers. For this level they are paid pretty well too. I’d hate to think what our weekly wage bill is compared to mighty Accrington.
All Cook’s replacement needs to do is point to the league table. We are snugly in the lower reaches while the might of Burton, Plymouth and co strive for promotion. As professional footballers on a contract I suspect as long as the new manager is half decent, unlike five of the last six, they’ll be fine with it. |  | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:01 - Oct 4 with 914 views | chicoazul |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:00 - Oct 4 by Churchman |
I think it’s an interesting point about the players signing for Cook. If or more likely when he’s fired, what are the players going to do? Stop playing? Two paltry wins in ten games suggests they’re not doing much of that anyway.
They are meant to be professional footballers. For this level they are paid pretty well too. I’d hate to think what our weekly wage bill is compared to mighty Accrington.
All Cook’s replacement needs to do is point to the league table. We are snugly in the lower reaches while the might of Burton, Plymouth and co strive for promotion. As professional footballers on a contract I suspect as long as the new manager is half decent, unlike five of the last six, they’ll be fine with it. |
Changing the manager will make things worse. | |
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| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:06 - Oct 4 with 890 views | ElderGrizzly |
Those 7 from 9 points were a scrappy 1-0 against Lincoln, where they had a good goal ruled out for offside, a nervy 1-1 and a good 6-0 against a team who are probably the worst in the league.
The evidence from the previous 6 games and Saturday are more akin to 'normality' this season.
I want Cook to succeed because it saves us going through the upheaval again, but I don't see a pattern of play or any kind of plan.
He's got the best budget and probably the best squad depth in the league. He should start getting results that reflect that.
As I said on Saturday, the corner we have turned appears to have been a roundabout... |  | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:08 - Oct 4 with 886 views | tractorshark |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:20 - Oct 3 by chrismakin |
Completely agree, I said last night, i'm still yet to see a town side play the way PC has had his sides play the previous years. It just doesn't match up, especially when he's been able to bring in 19 players to do what he wants it to do. |
Everyone is convinced Cook’s sides played terrific football in the past.
But based on what evidence? I suspect mostly from watching one Pompey match against us in the cup.
But I know a fair few Portsmouth fans in the area I live and most say the same thing.
Cook completely cocked up his first year in charge at Portsmouth by achieving the seemingly impossible of not getting promoted with a squad way too good for League Two.
They are certainly not that convinced by him and told me so at the time he was appointed with us.
I still don’t agree with his strategy and man-management last season and, while he may not like that TV interview the other day, the reporter was right to bring it up.
I want Cook to succeed, if he’s sacked it creates uncertainty again and probably leads to another season in League One.
But the fact of the matter is his record at Ipswich is dreadful and would warrant dismissal at most other clubs.
I think he’s got until the next international break in November. | | | |
| I don't know where I stand with Cook on 09:09 - Oct 4 with 884 views | BlueBlood90 |
I'm quickly starting to lose the faith now. I've said all along I'd see where we are after 10 games as that's almost a quarter of the way through the season and I'm still not impressed.
The way Wigan stayed up against the odds last season and are now top of the league is speaking volumes of just how good his assistant was and could've easily made Cook look better than he actually was all these years. |  |
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