| So the Saudi despotism 08:34 - Oct 7 with 5092 views | chicoazul |
Is moving to the Premier League. This is one of the most sinister and awful regimes in the world that regularly executes enemies around the world. Think they will pass a fit and proper person test?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 13:55 - Oct 7 with 1763 views | itfcjoe |
| So the Saudi despotism on 13:53 - Oct 7 by DanTheMan |
Christ. |
It might not be as well worded as it should be, but I do sort of get the point he is making |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 14:00 - Oct 7 with 1747 views | giant_stow |
All the footy commentators who've been slating the mighty canaries for a lack of ambition / not spending enough will be happy at least. |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 14:20 - Oct 7 with 1719 views | Illinoisblue |
| So the Saudi despotism on 12:51 - Oct 7 by monytowbray |
Ah yes, that makes it fine then. |
Neither are fine, obviously, but one is *slightly* more egregious than the other. |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 14:24 - Oct 7 with 1709 views | chicoazul |
| So the Saudi despotism on 13:55 - Oct 7 by itfcjoe |
It might not be as well worded as it should be, but I do sort of get the point he is making |
The point being, let us have our fun and ignore the Saudi human rights record. That’s a bad point. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 14:31 - Oct 7 with 1699 views | Illinoisblue |
| So the Saudi despotism on 14:24 - Oct 7 by chicoazul |
The point being, let us have our fun and ignore the Saudi human rights record. That’s a bad point. |
Yes, it’s pretty much saying “well Man City and PSG and others have all got dubious owners, so why shouldn’t we?” And as a football fan we’d probably all be saying very similar. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 14:45 - Oct 7 with 1681 views | Darth_Koont |
The UK is strategically allied with Saudi Arabia and arms the regime. And FIFA lets them play football.
So I think the chances of our FA or Premier League taking their own stand is minimal. Unfortunately.
It would be nice to see them fill the leadership void on this but by extension that brings them into conflict with those higher authorities. |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 14:49 - Oct 7 with 1674 views | hadleighboyblue |
| So the Saudi despotism on 12:48 - Oct 7 by chicoazul |
Yes this is all depressingly correct. Money is how all these corrupt terrible regimes prop themselves up. I bet it won’t be long before the CCP buy Leicester or something. |
How long before we get some games being played out in Saudi , clubs are losing their identity .
Money is destroying the game |  | | |
| So the Saudi despotism on 14:50 - Oct 7 with 1672 views | hype313 |
| So the Saudi despotism on 13:55 - Oct 7 by itfcjoe |
It might not be as well worded as it should be, but I do sort of get the point he is making |
I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that by purchasing a football club it will somehow change a mindset of historic, atrocious human rights acts.
I'm all for small steps and that, but this isn't a PR exercise from the Saudi's, this is trying to muscle in on the fortunes to be had in Football. |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 15:53 - Oct 7 with 1620 views | Bluedicea |
You could argue the same for any US investors. They belong to a corrupt country that executes people in their own country and around the world, they try to overthrow government regimes they don't like, they regularly torture individuals in 'black sites' where they are given no basic human rights.
Stop buying into the bullcrap that just because they are from the middle East, they are evil, but our friends across the pond only do those same things because they are trying to protect others, so good. |  |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 16:00 - Oct 7 with 1603 views | JakeITFC |
| So the Saudi despotism on 12:16 - Oct 7 by monytowbray |
A group of fans that sing about a rival club woman being a “whore” who needs to “die” taking the moral high ground on sexism.
Spare me your downvotes in favour of at least 5 minutes thinking about it. |
I get the whore bit (football in general has a weird obsession with objectifying any woman involved in it as that) but is wanting a specific woman to die sexist (as opposed to just being a bit weird/stupid)? |  | | |
| So the Saudi despotism on 16:00 - Oct 7 with 1602 views | Steve_M |
| So the Saudi despotism on 14:00 - Oct 7 by giant_stow |
All the footy commentators who've been slating the mighty canaries for a lack of ambition / not spending enough will be happy at least. |
You spelt "merely participating" wrong Ulls. |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 16:02 - Oct 7 with 1603 views | chicoazul |
| So the Saudi despotism on 14:31 - Oct 7 by Illinoisblue |
Yes, it’s pretty much saying “well Man City and PSG and others have all got dubious owners, so why shouldn’t we?” And as a football fan we’d probably all be saying very similar. |
I don’t agree. For myself if we were one day bought by one of these despotisms like Qatar et al I would stop going stop supporting and join any protest at the club gates. I struggled a good deal with Evans’ history of aerospace conferences. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 16:03 - Oct 7 with 1601 views | chicoazul |
| So the Saudi despotism on 15:53 - Oct 7 by Bluedicea |
You could argue the same for any US investors. They belong to a corrupt country that executes people in their own country and around the world, they try to overthrow government regimes they don't like, they regularly torture individuals in 'black sites' where they are given no basic human rights.
Stop buying into the bullcrap that just because they are from the middle East, they are evil, but our friends across the pond only do those same things because they are trying to protect others, so good. |
Ends never justify means. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 16:04 - Oct 7 with 1598 views | Steve_M |
The Premier League were predictably rigorous (thread). | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 16:19 - Oct 7 with 1576 views | Bluedicea |
| So the Saudi despotism on 16:03 - Oct 7 by chicoazul |
Ends never justify means. |
That's where you are wrong. Sometimes the ends do justify the means, it is just very subjective.
Killing millions of people to end the Nazi regime, or should we have just kept asking them nicely to stop slaughtering innocents so we could stay above an ideological and arbitrary line of good people. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 16:30 - Oct 7 with 1559 views | chicoazul |
| So the Saudi despotism on 16:19 - Oct 7 by Bluedicea |
That's where you are wrong. Sometimes the ends do justify the means, it is just very subjective.
Killing millions of people to end the Nazi regime, or should we have just kept asking them nicely to stop slaughtering innocents so we could stay above an ideological and arbitrary line of good people. |
The concept “ends justify means” when applied politically means states have carte Blanche to do anything they want as long as the “means” as achieved. This is pure authoritarianism which is something we all know modern TWTD loves. Killing millions of people, to use your example, is never justified. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 17:03 - Oct 7 with 1522 views | Bluedicea |
| So the Saudi despotism on 16:30 - Oct 7 by chicoazul |
The concept “ends justify means” when applied politically means states have carte Blanche to do anything they want as long as the “means” as achieved. This is pure authoritarianism which is something we all know modern TWTD loves. Killing millions of people, to use your example, is never justified. |
I do agree with you. But I am very much a realist.
In an ideal world, those sorts of decisions would never have to happen. We don't live in an ideal world.
Take Yugoslavia for example, while the world dithered over whether it was right to intervene militarily, 100's of thousands of innocent people were ethnically cleansed.
We had to stop that from happening, end goal. The means was by sending in peacekeepers, which was very ineffective, it was only when we started assassinating the leadership and actively engaging(killing) the ones perpetrating the massacres, did we reach that goal of ending it.
If the world had gone in and done that at the start, rather than politically and ethically wring their hands over what is right, many more lives would have been saved.
The problem with the phrase 'the end justifies the means' is it's duality. If the means involved aren't over a threshold, it's acceptable, if it's over a threshold it's unacceptable.
Killing Hitler as a child, would be reprehensible as killing any child is. But I can guarantee you many more people would find it acceptable than not.
It's hindsight that allows us to judge decisions made in difficult circumstances and it's only from that point of safety do we question ourselves.
The reason you cannot understand that is because you live a sheltered life, you have obviously never faced true adversity. Try living under the threat of death, from people or starvation or the elements or natural disasters and then you would appreciate the concept that sometimes to make something better you have to get your hands dirty.
Mandela understood that, so did Gandhi and MLK, they all stood for peace but used violence and death as a way to attain that peace. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 17:23 - Oct 7 with 1501 views | chrismakin |
All confirmed by the looks of it now |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 18:01 - Oct 7 with 1465 views | chicoazul |
| So the Saudi despotism on 17:03 - Oct 7 by Bluedicea |
I do agree with you. But I am very much a realist.
In an ideal world, those sorts of decisions would never have to happen. We don't live in an ideal world.
Take Yugoslavia for example, while the world dithered over whether it was right to intervene militarily, 100's of thousands of innocent people were ethnically cleansed.
We had to stop that from happening, end goal. The means was by sending in peacekeepers, which was very ineffective, it was only when we started assassinating the leadership and actively engaging(killing) the ones perpetrating the massacres, did we reach that goal of ending it.
If the world had gone in and done that at the start, rather than politically and ethically wring their hands over what is right, many more lives would have been saved.
The problem with the phrase 'the end justifies the means' is it's duality. If the means involved aren't over a threshold, it's acceptable, if it's over a threshold it's unacceptable.
Killing Hitler as a child, would be reprehensible as killing any child is. But I can guarantee you many more people would find it acceptable than not.
It's hindsight that allows us to judge decisions made in difficult circumstances and it's only from that point of safety do we question ourselves.
The reason you cannot understand that is because you live a sheltered life, you have obviously never faced true adversity. Try living under the threat of death, from people or starvation or the elements or natural disasters and then you would appreciate the concept that sometimes to make something better you have to get your hands dirty.
Mandela understood that, so did Gandhi and MLK, they all stood for peace but used violence and death as a way to attain that peace. |
As so often with so many people on TWTD, enormous incorrect assumptions about other posters lead to dumb posts. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 18:05 - Oct 7 with 1455 views | Bluedicea |
| So the Saudi despotism on 18:01 - Oct 7 by chicoazul |
As so often with so many people on TWTD, enormous incorrect assumptions about other posters lead to dumb posts. |
Thankyou for admitting you were in the wrong because of your assumptions. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 18:07 - Oct 7 with 1446 views | Parky |
| So the Saudi despotism on 12:16 - Oct 7 by monytowbray |
A group of fans that sing about a rival club woman being a “whore” who needs to “die” taking the moral high ground on sexism.
Spare me your downvotes in favour of at least 5 minutes thinking about it. |
She’s a whoreeeeee | | | |
| So the Saudi despotism on 18:20 - Oct 7 with 1426 views | TheBoyBlue |
| So the Saudi despotism on 10:20 - Oct 7 by Guthrum |
Most local businessmen - the likes of the Cobbolds - could never afford to run even a 2nd or 3rd tier club nowadays. The money-fest since the 1990s has pushed things way beyond their reach. |
As we discovered, even a pretty wealthy businessman like Marcus Evans couldn't compete. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 18:26 - Oct 7 with 1424 views | Mullet |
I find this stuff weird.
But when their living “legend” tweets this and they’re all peddling more hard luck stories all over social media, it’s pretty understandable.
While I doubt our lot are saintly, it’s quite a lot to turn a blind eye to if you’re a barcode isn’t it? |  |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 18:31 - Oct 7 with 1413 views | Darth_Koont |
| So the Saudi despotism on 18:26 - Oct 7 by Mullet |
I find this stuff weird.
But when their living “legend” tweets this and they’re all peddling more hard luck stories all over social media, it’s pretty understandable.
While I doubt our lot are saintly, it’s quite a lot to turn a blind eye to if you’re a barcode isn’t it? |
It’s nothing compared to turning a blind eye to actually arming the Saudis. | |
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| So the Saudi despotism on 18:40 - Oct 7 with 1387 views | Radlett_blue |
Why block the Saudis when Russian & Chinese owners have been welcomed with open arms? |  |
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