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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland 15:46 - Oct 12 with 2779 viewsnoggin

or am I misunderstanding his speech?

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:02 - Oct 12 with 1233 viewsPinewoodblue

I can sort of understand what he is trying to go. Back in 1970’s the company I worked for was slow to adapt to changes needed. Relationship between employer and employee was breaking down. In frustration industrial action was taken, by means of a work to rule.

We worked to the manuals issued. Every time a question was asked staff meticulously checked the manual, even when the answer was known. Industrial action only lasted three hours before Management gave in.

The EU are in many ways being over meticulous and it is this, as much as anything else, that is causing the damage.

Brexit wasn’t the brightest idea and The government failed hopelessly. With regards the referendum. It is very difficult to get support when your view, if , for ages you are saying everything needs to change and then turn round and say no it doesn’t. Lack of leadership from the major opposition party didn’t help.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:20 - Oct 12 with 1198 viewsnoggin

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:02 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue

I can sort of understand what he is trying to go. Back in 1970’s the company I worked for was slow to adapt to changes needed. Relationship between employer and employee was breaking down. In frustration industrial action was taken, by means of a work to rule.

We worked to the manuals issued. Every time a question was asked staff meticulously checked the manual, even when the answer was known. Industrial action only lasted three hours before Management gave in.

The EU are in many ways being over meticulous and it is this, as much as anything else, that is causing the damage.

Brexit wasn’t the brightest idea and The government failed hopelessly. With regards the referendum. It is very difficult to get support when your view, if , for ages you are saying everything needs to change and then turn round and say no it doesn’t. Lack of leadership from the major opposition party didn’t help.


Aren't the EU just adhering to the agreement signed by both sides?

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:27 - Oct 12 with 1179 viewsHerbivore

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:02 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue

I can sort of understand what he is trying to go. Back in 1970’s the company I worked for was slow to adapt to changes needed. Relationship between employer and employee was breaking down. In frustration industrial action was taken, by means of a work to rule.

We worked to the manuals issued. Every time a question was asked staff meticulously checked the manual, even when the answer was known. Industrial action only lasted three hours before Management gave in.

The EU are in many ways being over meticulous and it is this, as much as anything else, that is causing the damage.

Brexit wasn’t the brightest idea and The government failed hopelessly. With regards the referendum. It is very difficult to get support when your view, if , for ages you are saying everything needs to change and then turn round and say no it doesn’t. Lack of leadership from the major opposition party didn’t help.


Odd that so much of the blame is being attributed to the EU and it seems to Labour as well in your post. This is a Tory mess from start to finish.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:33 - Oct 12 with 1160 viewsmidastouch

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:02 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue

I can sort of understand what he is trying to go. Back in 1970’s the company I worked for was slow to adapt to changes needed. Relationship between employer and employee was breaking down. In frustration industrial action was taken, by means of a work to rule.

We worked to the manuals issued. Every time a question was asked staff meticulously checked the manual, even when the answer was known. Industrial action only lasted three hours before Management gave in.

The EU are in many ways being over meticulous and it is this, as much as anything else, that is causing the damage.

Brexit wasn’t the brightest idea and The government failed hopelessly. With regards the referendum. It is very difficult to get support when your view, if , for ages you are saying everything needs to change and then turn round and say no it doesn’t. Lack of leadership from the major opposition party didn’t help.


Talking of the 1970s how about this for a high-calibre debate on the Common Market:



The debate is conducted in a far more respectful manner and tone than anything we get today. Notice how they both hear each other out before replying.

I also enjoyed this one from the same year:



This one is a lot more boisterous which is to be expected given it's taking place at the Oxford Union.

I thought it was pertinent to include the latter one given a statue of Barbara Castle was unveiled within the last few days.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/09/statue-of-pioneering-mp-barbara

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:38 - Oct 12 with 1137 viewsmidastouch

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:33 - Oct 12 by midastouch

Talking of the 1970s how about this for a high-calibre debate on the Common Market:



The debate is conducted in a far more respectful manner and tone than anything we get today. Notice how they both hear each other out before replying.

I also enjoyed this one from the same year:



This one is a lot more boisterous which is to be expected given it's taking place at the Oxford Union.

I thought it was pertinent to include the latter one given a statue of Barbara Castle was unveiled within the last few days.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/09/statue-of-pioneering-mp-barbara


To view the top video it seems you need to click 'Watch on YouTube' on the link above as it says playback has been disabled from other sites.

Alternatively (for anybody interested) please go to YouTube and search for these two video titles:
Common Market Debate | Edward Heath | Michael Foot | People and Politics | Part 1
And Common Market Debate | Edward Heath | Michael Foot | People and Politics | Part 2

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:40 - Oct 12 with 1127 viewsgiant_ullaa

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:27 - Oct 12 by Herbivore

Odd that so much of the blame is being attributed to the EU and it seems to Labour as well in your post. This is a Tory mess from start to finish.


For the little it's worth, I agree that this is definitely a Tory mess, but think you and Noggin are being a little harsh to Pinewood. Aren't there lots of examples of EU flexibility shown to the right country in a crisis? I do think they're being a little aggressive when they didn't absolutely have to be.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:42 - Oct 12 with 1118 viewschicoazul

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:27 - Oct 12 by Herbivore

Odd that so much of the blame is being attributed to the EU and it seems to Labour as well in your post. This is a Tory mess from start to finish.


The Maximum Leader must carry a significant portion of the blame, but I think he knew what way the wind was blowing and didn’t want to get caught on the losing side. And he has always been anti EU as he saw it as a corporate protectorate, which it is amongst other things.

However, the most dangerous leftists of all may be certain oversocia- lized types who avoid irritating displays of aggressiveness and refrain from advertising their leftism, but work quietly and unobtrusively to promote collectivist values, “enligh- tened” psychological techniques for socializing children, dependence of the individual on the system, and so forth.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:43 - Oct 12 with 1113 viewsnoggin

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:40 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

For the little it's worth, I agree that this is definitely a Tory mess, but think you and Noggin are being a little harsh to Pinewood. Aren't there lots of examples of EU flexibility shown to the right country in a crisis? I do think they're being a little aggressive when they didn't absolutely have to be.


A very predictable crisis. The government knew what would happen when they signed the agreement.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:46 - Oct 12 with 1094 viewsgiant_ullaa

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:43 - Oct 12 by noggin

A very predictable crisis. The government knew what would happen when they signed the agreement.


Agreed, they've fck'd it badly and have to live with the consequences, but I think its fair to say that the EU aren't helping. Of course, why should they on one level? But on another, we're still allies on the major geoplitical issues, but that relationship seems a little one sided right now, what with threats of cutting off power etc...

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:54 - Oct 12 with 1047 viewsEireannach_gorm

Seems to be another attempt by the Tory government to renegotiate the Brexit agreement.Nobody in NI has requested this. The EU are not impressed with another roadblock being discovered by the UK government. Simon Coveney, the RoI Minister of Foreign Affairs has taken to twitter in exasperation.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:54 - Oct 12 with 1041 viewsnoggin

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:46 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

Agreed, they've fck'd it badly and have to live with the consequences, but I think its fair to say that the EU aren't helping. Of course, why should they on one level? But on another, we're still allies on the major geoplitical issues, but that relationship seems a little one sided right now, what with threats of cutting off power etc...


The government should be on their knees, begging forgiveness from the people of NI. Maybe another 2 billion quid will keep them quiet.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:09 - Oct 12 with 1003 viewsEireannach_gorm

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:46 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

Agreed, they've fck'd it badly and have to live with the consequences, but I think its fair to say that the EU aren't helping. Of course, why should they on one level? But on another, we're still allies on the major geoplitical issues, but that relationship seems a little one sided right now, what with threats of cutting off power etc...


If Article 16 is triggered there will be retaliation from the EU ( so not a threat ).

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-58790419
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:20 - Oct 12 with 982 viewsgiant_ullaa

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:09 - Oct 12 by Eireannach_gorm

If Article 16 is triggered there will be retaliation from the EU ( so not a threat ).

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-58790419


Wasn't it already briefly triggered by the EU over the vaccines? If so, it kind of proves my point that the EU are no angels in this.

The threats on cutting off the power were over fishing in any case which seems a bit disproportionate, especially from a security ally.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:39 - Oct 12 with 935 viewsEireannach_gorm

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:20 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

Wasn't it already briefly triggered by the EU over the vaccines? If so, it kind of proves my point that the EU are no angels in this.

The threats on cutting off the power were over fishing in any case which seems a bit disproportionate, especially from a security ally.


The EU were correctly chastised by RoI and withdrew the triggering immediately. There had been no discussion with RoI about it and seemed a solo run by Ursula von der Leyen. The threats are related to the overall Brexit agreement and if there is no agreement that thats off the table. I assume the UK are not thinking of reneging on the NATO agreement?
[Post edited 12 Oct 17:52]
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:51 - Oct 12 with 911 viewsHerbivore

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:42 - Oct 12 by chicoazul

The Maximum Leader must carry a significant portion of the blame, but I think he knew what way the wind was blowing and didn’t want to get caught on the losing side. And he has always been anti EU as he saw it as a corporate protectorate, which it is amongst other things.


What specifically is he to blame for, IYHO? He didn't campaign for Brexit using a pack of lies to create an emotional pull to vote leave, he didn't scaremonger about millions of Turks flooding the country or various other xenophobic tropes, he didn't negotiate or vote for the Withdrawal Agreement we ended up with, nor did he set a load of incomptible red lines that could only ever result in us being worse off and creating huge issues in Ireland and NI. Being a bit luke warm in support of remain rather pales into insignificance next to all that I'd say.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:52 - Oct 12 with 910 viewsHerbivore

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:40 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

For the little it's worth, I agree that this is definitely a Tory mess, but think you and Noggin are being a little harsh to Pinewood. Aren't there lots of examples of EU flexibility shown to the right country in a crisis? I do think they're being a little aggressive when they didn't absolutely have to be.


Not being harsh at all. How often have the EU agreed to waive checks on products entering the EU because it makes life easier for the third country in question? There may be other examples but I'm not aware of any.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:54 - Oct 12 with 898 viewsHerbivore

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:46 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

Agreed, they've fck'd it badly and have to live with the consequences, but I think its fair to say that the EU aren't helping. Of course, why should they on one level? But on another, we're still allies on the major geoplitical issues, but that relationship seems a little one sided right now, what with threats of cutting off power etc...


We're the ones that trashed the relationship, mate.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:56 - Oct 12 with 885 viewsgiant_ullaa

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:39 - Oct 12 by Eireannach_gorm

The EU were correctly chastised by RoI and withdrew the triggering immediately. There had been no discussion with RoI about it and seemed a solo run by Ursula von der Leyen. The threats are related to the overall Brexit agreement and if there is no agreement that thats off the table. I assume the UK are not thinking of reneging on the NATO agreement?
[Post edited 12 Oct 17:52]


Fair enough on the vaccines / EU triggering of article 16. It was a mistake which was quickly corrected, but it does show them in a bad light I think, especially if one woman was able to do this without reference to national govts.

I spose to be precise, I'm chatting the threats from the French on blocking the power, which have subsequently been watered down, but were definately made with regards to the fishing dispute.

Re Nato - I have no idea, but would guess the French would leave before us, especially after the ARKUS thing and our apparent need to continually kiss up the Americans.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:57 - Oct 12 with 880 viewsnoggin

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:54 - Oct 12 by Herbivore

We're the ones that trashed the relationship, mate.


Well exactly. Britain won back control, now it's time to start using that control.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:00 - Oct 12 with 878 viewsNthsuffolkblue

Isn't it perfectly natural that the EU would look to do whatever is in the best interests of the EU?

Why is that seen as unreasonable or surprising? The UK Government wants to get the best it can too. Unfortunately the UK Government does not appear to understand that the EU is no longer looking at the UK interests as part of the EU's interests.

It was said at the time that Brexit would not be a case of getting a one-time bad deal but rather of being beaten down on the deal by far more experienced negotiators with far greater negotiating power again and again and again.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:02 - Oct 12 with 863 viewsHerbivore

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:56 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

Fair enough on the vaccines / EU triggering of article 16. It was a mistake which was quickly corrected, but it does show them in a bad light I think, especially if one woman was able to do this without reference to national govts.

I spose to be precise, I'm chatting the threats from the French on blocking the power, which have subsequently been watered down, but were definately made with regards to the fishing dispute.

Re Nato - I have no idea, but would guess the French would leave before us, especially after the ARKUS thing and our apparent need to continually kiss up the Americans.


France isn't the EU.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:02 - Oct 12 with 862 viewsSwansea_Blue

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:40 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

For the little it's worth, I agree that this is definitely a Tory mess, but think you and Noggin are being a little harsh to Pinewood. Aren't there lots of examples of EU flexibility shown to the right country in a crisis? I do think they're being a little aggressive when they didn't absolutely have to be.


Ah, a crisis. Trouble is (in the stories own words) this is the “great”, “oven ready” deal that Johnson claimed credit for, negotiating it in “record time” that would “get Brexit done” “despite Parliament’s best efforts to block his progress”.

They won an election off the back of that and promised “no more renegotiations”.

It’s not supposed to be a crisis. This is exactly what we wanted, voted for and celebrated. They can’t admit it’s a crisis or otherwise their whole act comes crashing down. Can’t blame the EU for us not understanding or admitting to what the the deal meant.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:03 - Oct 12 with 858 viewsgiant_ullaa

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 17:54 - Oct 12 by Herbivore

We're the ones that trashed the relationship, mate.


Fair enough, as a remainer I agree, but there is another side to this too. I guess its human for the EU to kick back, but I just hope they know when to stop or things could get very ugly.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:05 - Oct 12 with 850 viewsHerbivore

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:03 - Oct 12 by giant_ullaa

Fair enough, as a remainer I agree, but there is another side to this too. I guess its human for the EU to kick back, but I just hope they know when to stop or things could get very ugly.


The EU is just sticking to an international treaty that we negotiated and agreed with them less than 2 years ago. That we now aren't happy with what we negotiated really isn't their problem.

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Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:05 - Oct 12 with 848 viewsgiant_ullaa

Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 18:02 - Oct 12 by Herbivore

France isn't the EU.


I realise that but France often behaves like its the EU and its wording in those threats referred to 'EU action' I think. That it was later slapped down is great, but it carries huge weight nonetheless.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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