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Did I hear on one of the pods that 16:28 - Oct 13 with 3509 views_sanctimoanious_

Burgess and Edmundson are not really an upgrade on Toto and Woolfenden?


Really?
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 21:06 - Oct 13 with 894 viewsLegendofthePhoenix

I distinctly remember having conversations on here about Mings - I was saying he was quality and others were saying he was a non league liability. I think (i) its best to give players a bit of time to settle in and (ii) many fans are talking out of their Arsenals.
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 21:09 - Oct 13 with 879 viewschicoazul

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 17:12 - Oct 13 by Herbivore

That's just nonsense, Chickers.


He’s that worst kind of centre half; a wimp who thinks being good on the ball excuses everything else. My man Toto and Wilson covered for him loads.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 21:22 - Oct 13 with 859 viewsHerbivore

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 21:09 - Oct 13 by chicoazul

He’s that worst kind of centre half; a wimp who thinks being good on the ball excuses everything else. My man Toto and Wilson covered for him loads.


Awful shout.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 21:44 - Oct 13 with 850 viewsitfcsuth

I find that staggering if that was said.

Have the foundations to be a really good partnership. Compliment each other well. Edmundson very good athlete and Burgess is such a dominant defender which is needed in league. Both have an element of no nonsense approach at times which I like.

Not a fan of Woolfenden, as think I have previously mentioned. Imo, sluggish, slow, not dominant at all and seems to be an urban myth he is a good ball playing defender - don’t see that myself.
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 22:18 - Oct 13 with 823 viewsSimonds92

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 21:44 - Oct 13 by itfcsuth

I find that staggering if that was said.

Have the foundations to be a really good partnership. Compliment each other well. Edmundson very good athlete and Burgess is such a dominant defender which is needed in league. Both have an element of no nonsense approach at times which I like.

Not a fan of Woolfenden, as think I have previously mentioned. Imo, sluggish, slow, not dominant at all and seems to be an urban myth he is a good ball playing defender - don’t see that myself.


Think that last bit is spot on re Woolfenden being a ball playing cb. I just don't think he's very good at all the things he needs to be good at. People thought he was going to be a fantastic championship player but the reality of him is he's an ok league 1 defender when playing with better players. Put him in a struggling team, and his lack of positional sense and bravery will be highlighted further.
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 22:24 - Oct 13 with 812 viewspointofblue

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 22:18 - Oct 13 by Simonds92

Think that last bit is spot on re Woolfenden being a ball playing cb. I just don't think he's very good at all the things he needs to be good at. People thought he was going to be a fantastic championship player but the reality of him is he's an ok league 1 defender when playing with better players. Put him in a struggling team, and his lack of positional sense and bravery will be highlighted further.


He was fine alongside Burgess before Cook decided to bizarrely change it for Bolton, which worked out brilliantly.

The OP said earlier in the thread Woolfenden would be shown less love if he had been signed from Accrington but I disagree - if he was a Cook signing he’d been hyped to heaven.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 23:42 - Oct 13 with 778 viewsSamWhiteUK

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 17:02 - Oct 13 by _sanctimoanious_

Ok I can kind of accept that for now but I do think that is somewhat exaggerated with Woolfy and tends to play himself into danger more often than not. If he was signed from Accy he would not get as much love.


Got to agree with this. I think the "Woolfenden can play out of the back" thing has gone too far now. People are saying it without really having ever seen it. We've had more than one manager say that he is very laid back, and that's exactly what he is on the ball. Too laid back for a centre half.

Watch the recent cup game he played back, there are numerous occasions where you're left thinking, "Jesus man, just get rid of it!”

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 04:38 - Oct 14 with 733 viewsKeaneish

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 16:50 - Oct 13 by Swansea_Blue

Mick Mills thinks we haven’t strengthened and are probably weaker at the back this year. He wasn’t too shabby a defender so probably has a point.


Mick Mills seems to be talking a lot of waffle at the moment for some reason. Edmundson and Burgess haven’t cost us any points yet, Wolfenden already has this season and Nsiala has countless times in his Town career. While Wolfenden is better with the ball at his feet, Toto is a hideous. Edmundson and Burgess are better in the air and Edmunson has the best composure of the four.

Just because Toto, Wolfenden and Wilson kept a string of clean sheets last season, it means little without context given how unadventurous the side was.

All four of these players have their own qualities. A fair assessment should be made once they’ve played an equal number of games as a partnership - signs are, they’re better in my view.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 07:13 - Oct 14 with 701 viewschicoazul

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 22:24 - Oct 13 by pointofblue

He was fine alongside Burgess before Cook decided to bizarrely change it for Bolton, which worked out brilliantly.

The OP said earlier in the thread Woolfenden would be shown less love if he had been signed from Accrington but I disagree - if he was a Cook signing he’d been hyped to heaven.


It’s worked out very well since then if you take a minute to look at how many goals we conceded with Woolf in the team and without him.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 07:46 - Oct 14 with 673 viewsHerbivore

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 07:13 - Oct 14 by chicoazul

It’s worked out very well since then if you take a minute to look at how many goals we conceded with Woolf in the team and without him.


That's overly simplistic even by your standards. Edmundson and Burgess have had the benefit of a more solid RB in Donacien and a proper DM in Morsy for many of the games they've played together. In the one game they've played together where neither of those two started, they shipped 5 goals.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:29 - Oct 14 with 648 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 04:38 - Oct 14 by Keaneish

Mick Mills seems to be talking a lot of waffle at the moment for some reason. Edmundson and Burgess haven’t cost us any points yet, Wolfenden already has this season and Nsiala has countless times in his Town career. While Wolfenden is better with the ball at his feet, Toto is a hideous. Edmundson and Burgess are better in the air and Edmunson has the best composure of the four.

Just because Toto, Wolfenden and Wilson kept a string of clean sheets last season, it means little without context given how unadventurous the side was.

All four of these players have their own qualities. A fair assessment should be made once they’ve played an equal number of games as a partnership - signs are, they’re better in my view.


"Edmundson and Burgess haven’t cost us any points yet"

They weren't responsible for any defending in the Bolton debacle?

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:40 - Oct 14 with 651 viewschicoazul

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 07:46 - Oct 14 by Herbivore

That's overly simplistic even by your standards. Edmundson and Burgess have had the benefit of a more solid RB in Donacien and a proper DM in Morsy for many of the games they've played together. In the one game they've played together where neither of those two started, they shipped 5 goals.


That is true. It’s also true that since Woolf left the first team we have stopped shipping at least 2 per game, which will be due in part to the players you mention but also in part because Woolf isn’t dithering away losing headers missing tackles and generally being annoying. I don’t think he is a bad player in a purists sense but he is a player who you need to account for in a way I don’t think you do for the current pair.

I have it in commission, to comfort the feeble-minded, and to support the weak. You must needs go along with us; we will wait for you, we will lend you our help, we will deny ourselves of some things, both opinionated and practical, for your sake; we will not enter into doubtful disputations before you, we will be made all things to you, rather than you shall be left behind
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:46 - Oct 14 with 645 viewsfranz_tyson

Woolf has become a decisive figure. Some think he’s crap and a liability and others think he’s another Beckanbauer. Don’t think he’s far behind Edmundson or Burgess but no way is he as good as some make out.
If he gets a chance I just hope he concentrates on his defending. I don’t care about his supposed ball-playing abilities because with him it’s a thin line between comfortable/classy on the ball and being over-casual and sloppy.
Just want to see a solid defensive performance from him if he gets a chance. You don’t need to spray 50 yard defence splitting balls, just play it simply and defend well.
I think Edmundson looks pretty solid and I’m ok with him, but Burgess has looked shaky lately.
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:50 - Oct 14 with 641 viewspointofblue

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:40 - Oct 14 by chicoazul

That is true. It’s also true that since Woolf left the first team we have stopped shipping at least 2 per game, which will be due in part to the players you mention but also in part because Woolf isn’t dithering away losing headers missing tackles and generally being annoying. I don’t think he is a bad player in a purists sense but he is a player who you need to account for in a way I don’t think you do for the current pair.


Still over-simplistic - we were leaking goals like a sieve mainly because of individual errors. Yes, Woolfenden is (partially) responsible for a couple against Morecambe and MK Dons but there’s no legislation for Evans giving the ball away at Burton, or passing the ball to the Wimbledon striker, or KVY and Nsiala allowing the Morecambe striker to run passed them like they weren’t there. As a unit Woolfenden and Burgess were building up a decent understanding. We’ll never know whether they would have overseen a solidification of our defence had they been kept in place, or whether they would have still shipped five at home to Bolton but, as Herbivore said, I think the addition of Donacien and Morsy has helped more than Edmundson turning up… and even then none of them were able to help with the mess at Accrington.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 09:07 - Oct 14 with 610 viewschicoazul

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:50 - Oct 14 by pointofblue

Still over-simplistic - we were leaking goals like a sieve mainly because of individual errors. Yes, Woolfenden is (partially) responsible for a couple against Morecambe and MK Dons but there’s no legislation for Evans giving the ball away at Burton, or passing the ball to the Wimbledon striker, or KVY and Nsiala allowing the Morecambe striker to run passed them like they weren’t there. As a unit Woolfenden and Burgess were building up a decent understanding. We’ll never know whether they would have overseen a solidification of our defence had they been kept in place, or whether they would have still shipped five at home to Bolton but, as Herbivore said, I think the addition of Donacien and Morsy has helped more than Edmundson turning up… and even then none of them were able to help with the mess at Accrington.


If you’re saying that with Morsy and Janoi in there then Woolf would probably be as good as for eg Edmundson then I don’t disagree but I think it would be a mistake to change it and Woolf is the ur “got a mistake in him” player. I’ll stick with who we have now, and if one isn’t available I’ll go with Toto for his pace and muscularity and experience.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 09:09 - Oct 14 with 602 viewsHerbivore

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:50 - Oct 14 by pointofblue

Still over-simplistic - we were leaking goals like a sieve mainly because of individual errors. Yes, Woolfenden is (partially) responsible for a couple against Morecambe and MK Dons but there’s no legislation for Evans giving the ball away at Burton, or passing the ball to the Wimbledon striker, or KVY and Nsiala allowing the Morecambe striker to run passed them like they weren’t there. As a unit Woolfenden and Burgess were building up a decent understanding. We’ll never know whether they would have overseen a solidification of our defence had they been kept in place, or whether they would have still shipped five at home to Bolton but, as Herbivore said, I think the addition of Donacien and Morsy has helped more than Edmundson turning up… and even then none of them were able to help with the mess at Accrington.


Indeed. I can't help but think Woolf's association with the old regime is doing him no favours with a section of the fan base as well as with Cook. The Morecambe error was a bad one but then it was an absolute hospital pass from Penney that wasn't even easy to just put his foot through (though that's what he should have attempted). He's otherwise looked fine this season, no worse than the two new CBs, imo, and certainly much better on the ball than both. The notion I'm seeing from some on this thread that he's not even good on the ball is just pure revisionism, like the numpties last season trying to claim Jackson isn't quick.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 09:22 - Oct 14 with 579 viewsWickets

This post reminds me of one a few years ago when someone was saying how terrible Berra was just before he got into the Scotland team ! For me these ED and Bur great miles better than Wilson ,who did ok, and the Error prone Toto . Plenty of time for Woofie as yet .
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 10:46 - Oct 14 with 526 viewsDMDC

Burgess and Edmundson would be way out of their depth in the championship looking at them so far this season. We would get thumped out of site every week. PC struggles with formation in this league, has no plan B or C,we would be hard pressed to win a game in the championship with this squad as it stands. Sorry, brutal but honest.
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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 11:17 - Oct 14 with 500 viewspointofblue

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 09:22 - Oct 14 by Wickets

This post reminds me of one a few years ago when someone was saying how terrible Berra was just before he got into the Scotland team ! For me these ED and Bur great miles better than Wilson ,who did ok, and the Error prone Toto . Plenty of time for Woofie as yet .


Plenty of time for Woolfenden? He’s 22, needing first team football, and can’t even get on the bench ahead of Nsiala despite being able to cover more positions comfortably compared to him. Wouldn’t be surprised if he moves on in January.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 12:58 - Oct 14 with 460 viewsPaul_Knows

Nsiala.


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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 13:22 - Oct 14 with 433 viewsjayessess

I don't think there's a lot between them really.

I think we've got a tendency to regard any pre-takeover players as inherently inferior, but I'd struggle to tell you a performance we've had out of Ed/Burgess that I've not seen from Toto or Woolf. Not sure I could point to any particular attribute where the new lads are clearly superior either.
[Post edited 14 Oct 13:28]

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 13:53 - Oct 14 with 392 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 10:46 - Oct 14 by DMDC

Burgess and Edmundson would be way out of their depth in the championship looking at them so far this season. We would get thumped out of site every week. PC struggles with formation in this league, has no plan B or C,we would be hard pressed to win a game in the championship with this squad as it stands. Sorry, brutal but honest.


They've played, what, 6 games together? And you've already written them off?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 14:41 - Oct 14 with 349 viewsJammyDodgerrr

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 16:38 - Oct 13 by Simonds92

I think the biggest question is are they an upgrade on James Wilson both as a defender and with the ball at their feet, i think the answer is no to be honest in both aspects.


Wilson was not good with the ball at his feet unless you class lumping it out of play every time as good with the ball at his feet.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 18:12 - Oct 14 with 290 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 14:41 - Oct 14 by JammyDodgerrr

Wilson was not good with the ball at his feet unless you class lumping it out of play every time as good with the ball at his feet.


This just simply isn't true.

Some people never took to Wilson merely because he was on a free from another League 1 team, but while he was a fairly basic defender he actually did the basics pretty well. The stats bear this out as well - he was consistently one of our more accurate passers, for example.

Still, some people see what they want to see.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Did I hear on one of the pods that on 20:16 - Oct 14 with 237 viewsKeaneish

Did I hear on one of the pods that on 08:29 - Oct 14 by The_Flashing_Smile

"Edmundson and Burgess haven’t cost us any points yet"

They weren't responsible for any defending in the Bolton debacle?


Fair point. I seem to have erased that shambles from my memory. Was that their first or second game together though?

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