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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests 05:44 - Oct 14 with 1966 viewsgiant_ullaa

They're much better than everyone thought.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58899612


Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 06:14 - Oct 14 with 1325 viewsElderGrizzly

The issue is not that they don’t pick up positives, but they give too many false negatives. You need a significant viral load for LFTs to work.

It’s why the US Govt said anyone who had the brand used by the UK Govt, all £3bn worth, should bin them.

Report is handy as Govt is about to change policy on their use vs PCR. Handy eh…
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:10 - Oct 14 with 1254 viewsVic

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 06:14 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

The issue is not that they don’t pick up positives, but they give too many false negatives. You need a significant viral load for LFTs to work.

It’s why the US Govt said anyone who had the brand used by the UK Govt, all £3bn worth, should bin them.

Report is handy as Govt is about to change policy on their use vs PCR. Handy eh…


You suggesting the government have planted this news item on the Beeb, Elder?

Looks to me like this is a professional, independent study from a highly reputable source. UCL is not to be taken lightly.

And how unusual for the US, that has been behind the curve on COVID for much of the time, to criticize another country for the use of a test they don’t use. Presumably a test not made in the US!

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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:14 - Oct 14 with 1241 viewsGlasgowBlue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 06:14 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

The issue is not that they don’t pick up positives, but they give too many false negatives. You need a significant viral load for LFTs to work.

It’s why the US Govt said anyone who had the brand used by the UK Govt, all £3bn worth, should bin them.

Report is handy as Govt is about to change policy on their use vs PCR. Handy eh…


There’s never a positive story you can’t find a negative spin for EG 😁

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:26 - Oct 14 with 1225 viewsgiant_ullaa

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 06:14 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

The issue is not that they don’t pick up positives, but they give too many false negatives. You need a significant viral load for LFTs to work.

It’s why the US Govt said anyone who had the brand used by the UK Govt, all £3bn worth, should bin them.

Report is handy as Govt is about to change policy on their use vs PCR. Handy eh…


I'm not sure you read the link mr - first line:

"Lateral flow tests (LFTs) are very good at detecting people most likely to spread Covid-19 and positive results should be trusted, say University College London researchers."

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:31 - Oct 14 with 1206 viewsZXBlue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:10 - Oct 14 by Vic

You suggesting the government have planted this news item on the Beeb, Elder?

Looks to me like this is a professional, independent study from a highly reputable source. UCL is not to be taken lightly.

And how unusual for the US, that has been behind the curve on COVID for much of the time, to criticize another country for the use of a test they don’t use. Presumably a test not made in the US!


Indeed. It would also be a bit counter productive in circumstances where there is a spate of examples of positive lateral flows with negaitve PCRs in certain parts of the country, which experts are suggesting may result frmo a variation not being picked up by pcr.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:35 - Oct 14 with 1191 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:26 - Oct 14 by giant_ullaa

I'm not sure you read the link mr - first line:

"Lateral flow tests (LFTs) are very good at detecting people most likely to spread Covid-19 and positive results should be trusted, say University College London researchers."


I did. My point is very different.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:37 - Oct 14 with 1187 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:14 - Oct 14 by GlasgowBlue

There’s never a positive story you can’t find a negative spin for EG 😁


Ha. Literally reporting what the scientists have been saying

The evidence on LFTs has been there for 12 months and backed up by studies in the US and here.

They give too many false negatives which risk the spread. Which is all i’m saying. The fact they pick up positives is not in doubt, but Govt policy is aboit to switch to LFTs to open up travel and more and they will miss a lot of cases.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:50 - Oct 14 with 1157 viewsZXBlue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:37 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

Ha. Literally reporting what the scientists have been saying

The evidence on LFTs has been there for 12 months and backed up by studies in the US and here.

They give too many false negatives which risk the spread. Which is all i’m saying. The fact they pick up positives is not in doubt, but Govt policy is aboit to switch to LFTs to open up travel and more and they will miss a lot of cases.


I point out again, that they are pickign up cases that PCR is not.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:01 - Oct 14 with 1142 viewsVic

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:37 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

Ha. Literally reporting what the scientists have been saying

The evidence on LFTs has been there for 12 months and backed up by studies in the US and here.

They give too many false negatives which risk the spread. Which is all i’m saying. The fact they pick up positives is not in doubt, but Govt policy is aboit to switch to LFTs to open up travel and more and they will miss a lot of cases.


As I read it the thrust of the findings in the study are that positive results in LFT’s can be trusted. That’s it. It is countering claims that they give false positives.

I think you’re addressing a separate issue which isn’t addressed in the study and which which is slightly skewing this thread.

I agree with GB - you have become pretty negative the last few months .
[Post edited 14 Oct 8:03]

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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:08 - Oct 14 with 1123 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:01 - Oct 14 by Vic

As I read it the thrust of the findings in the study are that positive results in LFT’s can be trusted. That’s it. It is countering claims that they give false positives.

I think you’re addressing a separate issue which isn’t addressed in the study and which which is slightly skewing this thread.

I agree with GB - you have become pretty negative the last few months .
[Post edited 14 Oct 8:03]


I’m negative on the Govt approach to Covid and the testing for it because we are an outlier and ignoring international studies.

https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/features/asymptomatic-lateral-flow-testing


And selfishly because their incompetence or ulterior motive makes our job harder.

Yes, i’m raising a different point to this study but it’s an important one as it is related. LFTs give more false negatives than false positives and when used in education and travel settings that can cause significant asymptomatic spread.

When you know that Govt policy is about to push these tests very hard, mandating them in some cases and at the same time no longer making them free, you sort of get suspicious. Sorry.
[Post edited 14 Oct 8:14]
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:10 - Oct 14 with 1112 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:50 - Oct 14 by ZXBlue

I point out again, that they are pickign up cases that PCR is not.


Yes, some isolated cases.

That isn’t the trend though and is why PCRs are used as the ‘benchmark’ test

It’s why a Doctor or Hospital will demand a PCR test before going in if you have any symptoms, not a LFT
[Post edited 14 Oct 8:15]
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:22 - Oct 14 with 1077 viewsZXBlue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:10 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

Yes, some isolated cases.

That isn’t the trend though and is why PCRs are used as the ‘benchmark’ test

It’s why a Doctor or Hospital will demand a PCR test before going in if you have any symptoms, not a LFT
[Post edited 14 Oct 8:15]


It is absolutely a trend. There is a significant issue arising from it in certain parts of the country.

If we continue to rely on pcr as the definitive test, we are actually likely to be sending lots of positive people out to work and school.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:45 - Oct 14 with 1032 viewschicoazul

But TWTD said etc etc

I have it in commission, to comfort the feeble-minded, and to support the weak. You must needs go along with us; we will wait for you, we will lend you our help, we will deny ourselves of some things, both opinionated and practical, for your sake; we will not enter into doubtful disputations before you, we will be made all things to you, rather than you shall be left behind
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:55 - Oct 14 with 1000 viewsZXBlue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:45 - Oct 14 by chicoazul

But TWTD said etc etc


What?
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:55 - Oct 14 with 1000 viewspointofblue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:08 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

I’m negative on the Govt approach to Covid and the testing for it because we are an outlier and ignoring international studies.

https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/features/asymptomatic-lateral-flow-testing


And selfishly because their incompetence or ulterior motive makes our job harder.

Yes, i’m raising a different point to this study but it’s an important one as it is related. LFTs give more false negatives than false positives and when used in education and travel settings that can cause significant asymptomatic spread.

When you know that Govt policy is about to push these tests very hard, mandating them in some cases and at the same time no longer making them free, you sort of get suspicious. Sorry.
[Post edited 14 Oct 8:14]


What are other countries doing? I presume they have their own versions of LFTs - are they more accurate?

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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:01 - Oct 14 with 980 viewsCotty

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 06:14 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

The issue is not that they don’t pick up positives, but they give too many false negatives. You need a significant viral load for LFTs to work.

It’s why the US Govt said anyone who had the brand used by the UK Govt, all £3bn worth, should bin them.

Report is handy as Govt is about to change policy on their use vs PCR. Handy eh…


That really depends on your definition of "false negative", as one might very well say that where PCR picks up a positive where an LFT is negative, that is oversensitivity of the PCR. LFT is excellent at detecting transmittable Covid, that's all we should really care about, it's great news.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:18 - Oct 14 with 929 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:37 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

Ha. Literally reporting what the scientists have been saying

The evidence on LFTs has been there for 12 months and backed up by studies in the US and here.

They give too many false negatives which risk the spread. Which is all i’m saying. The fact they pick up positives is not in doubt, but Govt policy is aboit to switch to LFTs to open up travel and more and they will miss a lot of cases.


So you’re completely ignoring the “ Lateral flow tests (LFTs) are very good at detecting people most likely to spread Covid-19” part then?

Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:38 - Oct 14 with 874 viewsgiant_ullaa

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 07:35 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

I did. My point is very different.


I'm probably being thick, but I can't see how your point is all that different - you seem to be just disagreeing with the study.

You: they give too many false negatives
Study: they're great at picking up covid (which seems to imply that false negatives aren't such a problem.)

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:46 - Oct 14 with 856 viewsZXBlue

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:38 - Oct 14 by giant_ullaa

I'm probably being thick, but I can't see how your point is all that different - you seem to be just disagreeing with the study.

You: they give too many false negatives
Study: they're great at picking up covid (which seems to imply that false negatives aren't such a problem.)


You have that a little wrong. The study is primarily saying that if its a positive LF, then you can rely on it. EG makes the point that LFs are less good at picking up small viral loads than the PCR is, so it can miss people in the early stages or with light infections. He is saying that the governments inclination to rely more heavily on them rather than the more costly and onerous pcrs is therefore cynical and will lead to people with negative LFs spreading infection.

However, the current setup is persuading people to gnore positive LFs when they get negative PCRs which is probably worse, based on this study...

Also, givne that noone seems to give a toss anymore, it doesnt make much odds. Very few people take speculative LFs now. And very few people bother to distance or wear masks in public places and shops.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:00 - Oct 14 with 828 viewsgiant_ullaa

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:46 - Oct 14 by ZXBlue

You have that a little wrong. The study is primarily saying that if its a positive LF, then you can rely on it. EG makes the point that LFs are less good at picking up small viral loads than the PCR is, so it can miss people in the early stages or with light infections. He is saying that the governments inclination to rely more heavily on them rather than the more costly and onerous pcrs is therefore cynical and will lead to people with negative LFs spreading infection.

However, the current setup is persuading people to gnore positive LFs when they get negative PCRs which is probably worse, based on this study...

Also, givne that noone seems to give a toss anymore, it doesnt make much odds. Very few people take speculative LFs now. And very few people bother to distance or wear masks in public places and shops.


ok I think I get you, although I'm still scratching my head a little!

Me and fam are heavy users of LTFs (got oldies and vulnerables in the wider circle, so tend to do tests before seeing any of them) so maybe I just want them to be good.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:02 - Oct 14 with 812 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:18 - Oct 14 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

So you’re completely ignoring the “ Lateral flow tests (LFTs) are very good at detecting people most likely to spread Covid-19” part then?


No. Not at all. I’ve even addressed it above.

That quote is saying it basically picks up those with the highest viral load. Which they do.

They also give false negatives to those who are still infectious, still transmitting, but not high enough for the LFT to pick it up. But we then go out and act as though we are ‘virus free’.

There isn’t an easy answer and i’ve tried to explain why i think we should be careful around this as Govt policy is going to be pushing these, at our cost to pay, very soon. And they might simply prolong the issue.

As before, there is a reason the most sensitive environments currently use PCR not LFT. And the Govt is about to gamble and change that.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:05 - Oct 14 with 804 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 08:22 - Oct 14 by ZXBlue

It is absolutely a trend. There is a significant issue arising from it in certain parts of the country.

If we continue to rely on pcr as the definitive test, we are actually likely to be sending lots of positive people out to work and school.


The last part is simply not true.
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:08 - Oct 14 with 799 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:38 - Oct 14 by giant_ullaa

I'm probably being thick, but I can't see how your point is all that different - you seem to be just disagreeing with the study.

You: they give too many false negatives
Study: they're great at picking up covid (which seems to imply that false negatives aren't such a problem.)


I’m not disagreeing with the study that they find high viral load cases.

The bigger issue recognised in medical studies is they miss lower viral load, but still infectious people and positive cases that PCRs would pick up. That’s where the concern with false negatives are.

And why they aren’t trusted for hospital and travel (yet)
[Post edited 14 Oct 10:09]
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:12 - Oct 14 with 773 viewsElderGrizzly

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 09:46 - Oct 14 by ZXBlue

You have that a little wrong. The study is primarily saying that if its a positive LF, then you can rely on it. EG makes the point that LFs are less good at picking up small viral loads than the PCR is, so it can miss people in the early stages or with light infections. He is saying that the governments inclination to rely more heavily on them rather than the more costly and onerous pcrs is therefore cynical and will lead to people with negative LFs spreading infection.

However, the current setup is persuading people to gnore positive LFs when they get negative PCRs which is probably worse, based on this study...

Also, givne that noone seems to give a toss anymore, it doesnt make much odds. Very few people take speculative LFs now. And very few people bother to distance or wear masks in public places and shops.


“Which is probably worse” - yep!

Sorry not meaning to sound negative, but we’ve had to work with rubbish decision after rubbish decision on this and frankly me and my colleagues are exhausted by it all!
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Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:44 - Oct 14 with 709 viewschicoazul

Good news about the reliability of Lateral flow tests on 10:12 - Oct 14 by ElderGrizzly

“Which is probably worse” - yep!

Sorry not meaning to sound negative, but we’ve had to work with rubbish decision after rubbish decision on this and frankly me and my colleagues are exhausted by it all!


One of the few funny things about the pandemic is reading civil servants posting about how tired they are on TWTD and Twitter during working hours. We aren’t paying you to fart around online all day. Maybe that’s why you’re all so exhausted?

I have it in commission, to comfort the feeble-minded, and to support the weak. You must needs go along with us; we will wait for you, we will lend you our help, we will deny ourselves of some things, both opinionated and practical, for your sake; we will not enter into doubtful disputations before you, we will be made all things to you, rather than you shall be left behind
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