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Genuine question... 10:00 - Oct 18 with 2711 viewsOriginalMarkyP

Has anyone seen evidence on the pitch this season that Edmundson and in particular Burgess offer anything more than Toto and Wolfenden?


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Genuine question... on 10:02 - Oct 18 with 2396 viewsDMDC

No.
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Genuine question... on 10:40 - Oct 18 with 2316 viewsGarv

I don't think Burgess has as big a mistake in his locker as Toto does, albeit Toto hasn't made one for a long time now, and he's more dominant than Woolfenden, so on the whole Burgess is an upgrade. Sadly though he got drawn into a physical battle on Saturday and ultimately lost.

On the ball clearly Woolfenden is better than both. I wouldn't mind him coming in for Edmundson.

Saturday would have suited Toto, but you can't just rotate your CBs game to game, can you?

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Genuine question... on 10:44 - Oct 18 with 2287 viewsjayessess

I don't think they do, but I also don't think personnel is our problem at the back, particularly.

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Genuine question... on 10:56 - Oct 18 with 2236 viewsSteve_M

Genuine question... on 10:44 - Oct 18 by jayessess

I don't think they do, but I also don't think personnel is our problem at the back, particularly.


The first goal Saturday is a case in point, Burgess lost the initial ball but he was midway inside our half at the time. The rest of the defence then managed to collectively make it as easy as possible for Cambridge to get the shot away.

We concede to just about the first opposition chance every week. It's pretty clear that Burgess and Edmundson are not the same calibre of defender we started the Summer looking for with Sonny Bradley. Not to say one or both won't be good for us over the medium term but, as with everything else at the club at the moment, it is this season that is important.

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Genuine question... on 11:00 - Oct 18 with 2220 viewsRadlett_blue

Genuine question... on 10:56 - Oct 18 by Steve_M

The first goal Saturday is a case in point, Burgess lost the initial ball but he was midway inside our half at the time. The rest of the defence then managed to collectively make it as easy as possible for Cambridge to get the shot away.

We concede to just about the first opposition chance every week. It's pretty clear that Burgess and Edmundson are not the same calibre of defender we started the Summer looking for with Sonny Bradley. Not to say one or both won't be good for us over the medium term but, as with everything else at the club at the moment, it is this season that is important.


I think this is where Town are. We haven't recruited a Championship level squad, we've recruited a squad of good League One players & turning them into a promotion challenging team is proving more difficult than expected. While it would be a good problem to have, getting promoted would then require further substantial investment to make Town anything better than also rans in the 2nd tier, and probably a change of manager as well.

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Genuine question... on 11:01 - Oct 18 with 2216 viewsJakeITFC

We've signed lots of good players this summer, but we still very much have a very average League One defence and goalkeeper.
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Genuine question... on 11:02 - Oct 18 with 2202 viewshype313

Genuine question... on 11:01 - Oct 18 by JakeITFC

We've signed lots of good players this summer, but we still very much have a very average League One defence and goalkeeper.


You could make a case for the fact that our back 5 were far more solid last season

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Genuine question... on 11:23 - Oct 18 with 2155 viewsLankHenners

Genuine question... on 10:56 - Oct 18 by Steve_M

The first goal Saturday is a case in point, Burgess lost the initial ball but he was midway inside our half at the time. The rest of the defence then managed to collectively make it as easy as possible for Cambridge to get the shot away.

We concede to just about the first opposition chance every week. It's pretty clear that Burgess and Edmundson are not the same calibre of defender we started the Summer looking for with Sonny Bradley. Not to say one or both won't be good for us over the medium term but, as with everything else at the club at the moment, it is this season that is important.


Indeed, it seemed to me we'd done our business back to front (or front to back, technically) in the summer. Obviously it won't go the perfect way you want to go as a club when you recruit playing staff but for me it was telling that Edmundson and Burgess came in relatively late on - not that they're particularly bad but we were quick to get the likes of Chaplin, Bonne, Pigott, Burns in whilst we seemed, for whatever reason, to be slow at getting the back line sorted.

Agree about that goal - very amateurish how everyone got sucked into chasing the player with the ball. Edmundson initially did well to hold his ground and not rush in to Hoolahan but it seemed like everyone else took his caution as hesitancy and panicked. Just basic organisational stuff and knowing how each other are going to/supposed to react to certain situations that to be honest barely looks like it's been covered.

There's evidently a trust/communication issue between the CBs and the GK as well - on Saturday alone we were lucky that instances of both parties dealing with something the other should have done didn't cost us.

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Genuine question... on 11:26 - Oct 18 with 2131 viewspointofblue

Our strongest centre back pairing of the season has been Woolfenden and Burgess. Why they weren’t given time together rather than shoehorning Edmundson in I have no idea.

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Genuine question... on 11:30 - Oct 18 with 2110 viewsPinewoodblue

Genuine question... on 11:02 - Oct 18 by hype313

You could make a case for the fact that our back 5 were far more solid last season


Opinions are fine but they carry more weight if supported by facts.

We conceded 46 goals in 46 games last season.

We have conceded 21 in 12 games this season.

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Genuine question... on 11:52 - Oct 18 with 2023 viewsDavoIPB

Genuine question... on 11:00 - Oct 18 by Radlett_blue

I think this is where Town are. We haven't recruited a Championship level squad, we've recruited a squad of good League One players & turning them into a promotion challenging team is proving more difficult than expected. While it would be a good problem to have, getting promoted would then require further substantial investment to make Town anything better than also rans in the 2nd tier, and probably a change of manager as well.


Yes almost the entire squad are good and almost good league one players. Have been getting outmuscled a bit too easily but obviously been working on that. Bonne and Celina could do well in a championship team but that is about it. Burns has pace and can get passed people, he is probably our best league 1 style player.

Aluko is on a different level. He is a good championship player!
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Genuine question... on 11:58 - Oct 18 with 1978 viewsPinewoodblue

Genuine question... on 11:52 - Oct 18 by DavoIPB

Yes almost the entire squad are good and almost good league one players. Have been getting outmuscled a bit too easily but obviously been working on that. Bonne and Celina could do well in a championship team but that is about it. Burns has pace and can get passed people, he is probably our best league 1 style player.

Aluko is on a different level. He is a good championship player!


Cook just needs to turn them into a tactically aware team working together.

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Genuine question... on 12:18 - Oct 18 with 1929 viewsjayessess

On the subject of the first goal, anyone remember when Woolfenden slightly mis-judged a flat diagonal ball against MK Dons and ended up giving away a free kick, which meant he was the worst defender in the world. Compare with Burgess completely mis-judging a straight, high, long ball so badly that his man ended up collecting the ball to feet with a 10 yard start on him.

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Genuine question... on 12:23 - Oct 18 with 1909 viewsZXBlue

Genuine question... on 10:40 - Oct 18 by Garv

I don't think Burgess has as big a mistake in his locker as Toto does, albeit Toto hasn't made one for a long time now, and he's more dominant than Woolfenden, so on the whole Burgess is an upgrade. Sadly though he got drawn into a physical battle on Saturday and ultimately lost.

On the ball clearly Woolfenden is better than both. I wouldn't mind him coming in for Edmundson.

Saturday would have suited Toto, but you can't just rotate your CBs game to game, can you?


Toto has been tarred with a reputation that the facts really don't deserve.

Troubling on a number of counts.
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Genuine question... on 12:25 - Oct 18 with 1895 viewsBseaBlue

Genuine question... on 11:30 - Oct 18 by Pinewoodblue

Opinions are fine but they carry more weight if supported by facts.

We conceded 46 goals in 46 games last season.

We have conceded 21 in 12 games this season.


You could argue that the defence now faces more pressure as we take more risks going forward. However, I don't believe they would have been any worse!

I've banged on about it time and time again but we really should have been building from the back when we didn't get Bradley. It's like we decided to go all out on attacking players and then chuck a few ones together at the back, when realistically the defence wasn't the issue last season.

There is such a lack of leadership across the back line which is why we fold under pressure. To be fair, this was a case put forward by plenty on here as to why keeping Chambo on this season (even as a bit part player) would have been a benefit.
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Genuine question... on 12:31 - Oct 18 with 1866 viewsYallop

I really like Edmondson. I think he'll prove a great signing.
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Genuine question... on 13:15 - Oct 18 with 1735 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Genuine question... on 11:23 - Oct 18 by LankHenners

Indeed, it seemed to me we'd done our business back to front (or front to back, technically) in the summer. Obviously it won't go the perfect way you want to go as a club when you recruit playing staff but for me it was telling that Edmundson and Burgess came in relatively late on - not that they're particularly bad but we were quick to get the likes of Chaplin, Bonne, Pigott, Burns in whilst we seemed, for whatever reason, to be slow at getting the back line sorted.

Agree about that goal - very amateurish how everyone got sucked into chasing the player with the ball. Edmundson initially did well to hold his ground and not rush in to Hoolahan but it seemed like everyone else took his caution as hesitancy and panicked. Just basic organisational stuff and knowing how each other are going to/supposed to react to certain situations that to be honest barely looks like it's been covered.

There's evidently a trust/communication issue between the CBs and the GK as well - on Saturday alone we were lucky that instances of both parties dealing with something the other should have done didn't cost us.


I don't know why some people assume the order we make signings in is the order of priority. There's a multitude of factors as to why some signings happen before others. Given we had a complete clearout I imagine there were lots of names on a list - in all positions - and none were more pertinent than any others.

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Genuine question... on 13:15 - Oct 18 with 1735 viewsportmanroadblue

Genuine question... on 12:18 - Oct 18 by jayessess

On the subject of the first goal, anyone remember when Woolfenden slightly mis-judged a flat diagonal ball against MK Dons and ended up giving away a free kick, which meant he was the worst defender in the world. Compare with Burgess completely mis-judging a straight, high, long ball so badly that his man ended up collecting the ball to feet with a 10 yard start on him.


First thing I have to say is, why was Burgess so high up the pitch? that ball should have been dealt with by either the LB or CM?
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Genuine question... on 13:54 - Oct 18 with 1629 viewsLankHenners

Genuine question... on 13:15 - Oct 18 by The_Flashing_Smile

I don't know why some people assume the order we make signings in is the order of priority. There's a multitude of factors as to why some signings happen before others. Given we had a complete clearout I imagine there were lots of names on a list - in all positions - and none were more pertinent than any others.


That's not what I said. As I did say, for whatever reason we didn't get the defensive recruits in until later in the window which suggests we weren't able to get in our top targets.

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Genuine question... on 14:19 - Oct 18 with 1556 viewsWilbrahamBlue

Yes.

Toto just the latest player who fans develop a disproportionate over-romanticised view of just by their absence.

If he was playing and making the errors he used to he would be getting it in the neck.

When the old failures aren't playing and we are conceding we forget past performances and give a weird demi-god-like status to them upon return.

Same with JD who's cup was over-frothing with dramatic praise when in reality he was doing a 6/7 out of 10 for 3 or 4 games recently. Because he hasn't made a glaring error like he often does he was being elevated to 9/10s. Was poor last game and you can see geting cr&p for it.

CB pairings with Wolf are only as good as the level of his CB partner, really suffers for form unless the other CB is good and in-charge alongside him. His ball-playing ability is insignificant in League 1 and overrated anyway.

Edmundson clearly has got what it takes and Burgess needs work, but has more potential than Toto now. There's an argument for giving Wolf a game and resting Burgess certainly, but successive managers have found him too laid back evidently.

An on-form Walton and Coulson back fit will improve the dynamic. There needs to be an appreciation that we are missing both those as certain starters and also an out of form KVY.
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Genuine question... on 14:24 - Oct 18 with 1525 viewsVaughan8

Woolfenden played a lot at the start of the seaosn and we were still conceeding 2 goals a game.

Nsiala only played one game, but again 2 goals conceded.

I know people will use last season as a "our defence was better" and in stats it was, but we are so much more attacking this year than last year (hence the more goals we score) i'm not sure if those 2 would be any better.

I'm not a Nsiala fan so maybe i'm biased against him, but to be fair, if he brought him in I couldn't really complain as the other 2 don't seem that good either (so far!)
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Genuine question... on 14:28 - Oct 18 with 1509 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Genuine question... on 13:54 - Oct 18 by LankHenners

That's not what I said. As I did say, for whatever reason we didn't get the defensive recruits in until later in the window which suggests we weren't able to get in our top targets.


You said "It seemed to me WE'D DONE OUR BUSINESS BACK TO FRONT...it was telling that Edmundson and Burgess came in relatively late on - not that they're particularly bad BUT WE WERE QUICK TO GET THE LIKES OF Chaplin, Bonne, Pigott, Burns in whilst we seemed, for whatever reason, to be slow at getting the back line sorted."

That very much reads like you thought the attacking players were the priority, there's nothing there about not being able to get our top targets.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Genuine question... on 14:56 - Oct 18 with 1418 viewsgordon

Burgess in particular doesn't really look like an upgrade on Wilson, Nsiala or Woolfenden - I can understand that we maybe did alright to bring in Edmundson because he's 23 and has a decent pedigree, but I'm struggling a bit to understand the point of Burgess.
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Genuine question... on 14:58 - Oct 18 with 1409 viewsEly_Blue

Genuine question... on 11:30 - Oct 18 by Pinewoodblue

Opinions are fine but they carry more weight if supported by facts.

We conceded 46 goals in 46 games last season.

We have conceded 21 in 12 games this season.


I think you need to apply that in context of number of goals scored

There was an interesting point made on MOTD last night re Man Utd and how they don’t have enough players willing to do the tracking back etc compared to Liverpool Chelsea etc

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Genuine question... on 15:23 - Oct 18 with 1346 viewsLankHenners

Genuine question... on 14:28 - Oct 18 by The_Flashing_Smile

You said "It seemed to me WE'D DONE OUR BUSINESS BACK TO FRONT...it was telling that Edmundson and Burgess came in relatively late on - not that they're particularly bad BUT WE WERE QUICK TO GET THE LIKES OF Chaplin, Bonne, Pigott, Burns in whilst we seemed, for whatever reason, to be slow at getting the back line sorted."

That very much reads like you thought the attacking players were the priority, there's nothing there about not being able to get our top targets.


That’s just how you’ve, incorrectly, interpreted it.

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