| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner 14:26 - Oct 18 with 17230 views | MaySixth |
when we do win a game under Cook there can be no bandwagon jumping or changing their minds
no coming back now though for those who have nailed their colours to the mast
[Post edited 18 Oct 2021 14:27]
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:06 - Oct 18 with 1225 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 17:59 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
I get bored of saying this but... the sign of a good manager is that you have a positive effect on footballers and football teams. Brilliant players, good ones, mediocre ones, flawed ones, ones that are self-motivators, one that need a kick up the backside, arrogant ones, self-doubting ones. Teams that are badly organised, teams that lack flair, teams that lack energy.
If you aren't improving a team, in fact if you're making a team worse, that reflects badly on at least some of your management skills. I don't know why that was all forgotten in the Summer. If it were just about recruitment and team selection you could drag any idiot off Football Manager to do it and pay them a fraction of what we're paying Paul Cook. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:05]
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No. The previous mob of players were the horrible wasters that had been happy with an easy pay day at Ipswich. No pressure, not demanding owner in Evans. Three managers would try different ways with them and it didn't work. Three managers and that's very telling. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:19]
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:08 - Oct 18 with 1230 views | BlueBadger |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 17:46 - Oct 18 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Yes it was the players that let him down last season but it is obvious why you are defending them. They didn't turn up for THREE managers. |
It was just bad luck that Paul Cook offloaded THOSE and then bought another 20 or so that couldn't be arsed playing for 90 minutes, right? |  |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:12 - Oct 18 with 1227 views | jayessess |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:04 - Oct 18 by Keaneish |
Way too simplistic for me I’m afraid. Cook made the right call to breathe life back into this club. The only thing that is missing is sustained results, which will come. People need to get hold of themselves and be patient.
I sometimes wonder what this forum would be like if folk had actually experienced playing a season at a decent standard. Such a long way to go and do little ground to make up, the conversation in the club will be starkly different compared to what’s on this forum that’s for sure! |
I don't think there's necessarily any contradiction between what you've said in the first paragraph and what I've said. I wasn't against the reboot.
If you've played at a decent standard you must, at some point, have played in a team that started poorly, continued to play poorly and finished the season in a poor position. It's quite a common arc for a football season. |  |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:14 - Oct 18 with 1213 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:08 - Oct 18 by BlueBadger |
It was just bad luck that Paul Cook offloaded THOSE and then bought another 20 or so that couldn't be arsed playing for 90 minutes, right? |
I am not excusing Cook for this season as the results and performances ought to have been better given the backing he's had.
Those who had been offloaded took us down without a fight (the SBR stand still clapped and cheered them) and subsequently settled for an easy life. They would tell us all what we wanted to hear in the interviews but it was just lame, hollow words. 11th and 9th in League One, horrible wasters. The worst ever group of players that have represented the club, ever. Three managers were somehow bad for that group, three managers and that's telling. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:14]
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:21 - Oct 18 with 1201 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 17:59 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
I get bored of saying this but... the sign of a good manager is that you have a positive effect on footballers and football teams. Brilliant players, good ones, mediocre ones, flawed ones, ones that are self-motivators, one that need a kick up the backside, arrogant ones, self-doubting ones. Teams that are badly organised, teams that lack flair, teams that lack energy.
If you aren't improving a team, in fact if you're making a team worse, that reflects badly on at least some of your management skills. I don't know why that was all forgotten in the Summer. If it were just about recruitment and team selection you could drag any idiot off Football Manager to do it and pay them a fraction of what we're paying Paul Cook. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:05]
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Equally, you can't polish a turd. And this club (and many of those players) had been failing for years. Long before Cook came along. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:22 - Oct 18 with 1199 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:08 - Oct 18 by BlueBadger |
It was just bad luck that Paul Cook offloaded THOSE and then bought another 20 or so that couldn't be arsed playing for 90 minutes, right? |
It's too early to say on those 20. You have to give them a BIT of time before deciding this lot are carp too (or the manager is). It's just too early to say. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:23 - Oct 18 with 1201 views | jayessess |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:06 - Oct 18 by Mach_foreignBlue |
No. The previous mob of players were the horrible wasters that had been happy with an easy pay day at Ipswich. No pressure, not demanding owner in Evans. Three managers would try different ways with them and it didn't work. Three managers and that's very telling. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:19]
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I think that's a pretty silly generalisation, but so what if they were? Cook is paid handsomely to motivate players to perform better, to organise the team and adopt tactics that get better results out of them. He got even less from them than Paul Lambert, one of the worst managers in our history. I don't think you can pretend that's totally meaningless.
It doesn't mean definitively that Paul Cook's a bad manager or that he won't ultimately be a success with us, and I haven't at any point thus far thought we should be sacking him. Just that it's not totally irrelevant to assessing his managerial skill. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:26]
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:28 - Oct 18 with 1188 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:23 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
I think that's a pretty silly generalisation, but so what if they were? Cook is paid handsomely to motivate players to perform better, to organise the team and adopt tactics that get better results out of them. He got even less from them than Paul Lambert, one of the worst managers in our history. I don't think you can pretend that's totally meaningless.
It doesn't mean definitively that Paul Cook's a bad manager or that he won't ultimately be a success with us, and I haven't at any point thus far thought we should be sacking him. Just that it's not totally irrelevant to assessing his managerial skill. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:26]
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Yeah but Lambert had a LOT longer with them (and in some cases brought them in). | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:29 - Oct 18 with 1179 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:23 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
I think that's a pretty silly generalisation, but so what if they were? Cook is paid handsomely to motivate players to perform better, to organise the team and adopt tactics that get better results out of them. He got even less from them than Paul Lambert, one of the worst managers in our history. I don't think you can pretend that's totally meaningless.
It doesn't mean definitively that Paul Cook's a bad manager or that he won't ultimately be a success with us, and I haven't at any point thus far thought we should be sacking him. Just that it's not totally irrelevant to assessing his managerial skill. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:26]
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Why should football be the thing where a manager gets the biggest criticism?
If I perform badly at my work I'll get the ramifications not my manager.
The previous mob of wasters didn't turn up for three managers. They had been begging Evans to sack Hurst. Eventually they got their wish and still didn't perform for us. Lambert left and they still had attitude problems. They didn't like to work harder on the training pitch. That group of 'professional players' truly disgraced our shirt. They had been unmanageable.
Even Dozzell admitted that it was a 'the comfort zone' at Ipswich.
Again though, I repeat I'm not excusing Cook for this season as this is his team. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:30]
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:30 - Oct 18 with 1180 views | Herbivore |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:12 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
I don't think there's necessarily any contradiction between what you've said in the first paragraph and what I've said. I wasn't against the reboot.
If you've played at a decent standard you must, at some point, have played in a team that started poorly, continued to play poorly and finished the season in a poor position. It's quite a common arc for a football season. |
Nah, Keanish was at the Dog and Duck in their glory years. |  |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:36 - Oct 18 with 1183 views | jayessess |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:28 - Oct 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah but Lambert had a LOT longer with them (and in some cases brought them in). |
It is not unheard of for managers to improve things in such circumstances. Even with players who aren't very good. | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:38 - Oct 18 with 1174 views | jayessess |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:29 - Oct 18 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Why should football be the thing where a manager gets the biggest criticism?
If I perform badly at my work I'll get the ramifications not my manager.
The previous mob of wasters didn't turn up for three managers. They had been begging Evans to sack Hurst. Eventually they got their wish and still didn't perform for us. Lambert left and they still had attitude problems. They didn't like to work harder on the training pitch. That group of 'professional players' truly disgraced our shirt. They had been unmanageable.
Even Dozzell admitted that it was a 'the comfort zone' at Ipswich.
Again though, I repeat I'm not excusing Cook for this season as this is his team. [Post edited 18 Oct 2021 18:30]
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I don't think I've given Cook "the biggest criticism" in any way here. There is a middle ground between total absolution and total blame. | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:38 - Oct 18 with 1166 views | Herbivore |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:36 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
It is not unheard of for managers to improve things in such circumstances. Even with players who aren't very good. |
Indeed. Mick came in when we were rock bottom and inherited a squad of Jewell's players who he could get nothing out of. He took us on a very good run and quickly got us out of trouble. It's not unheard of, especially where good managers are concerned, to come in and make a group of players more effective. | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:50 - Oct 18 with 1157 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:36 - Oct 18 by jayessess |
It is not unheard of for managers to improve things in such circumstances. Even with players who aren't very good. |
I know. But it's not a given either. Sometimes they're just too far gone. If you look at the recent track record of the players and the recent track record of Cook, then Cook wins hands down. If Cook hasn't been able to motivate them - well neither did the two managers before him either.
Maybe, just maybe, it was the players. And he was right to bin them off. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:55 - Oct 18 with 1153 views | jayessess |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:50 - Oct 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I know. But it's not a given either. Sometimes they're just too far gone. If you look at the recent track record of the players and the recent track record of Cook, then Cook wins hands down. If Cook hasn't been able to motivate them - well neither did the two managers before him either.
Maybe, just maybe, it was the players. And he was right to bin them off. |
Not saying it's a given, nor that the clear out was wrong. I'm just saying you don't get total absolution for it.
You improve us slightly, you get to tick the box that says "Improves flawed players and teams". If you don't, you don't get to tick it. That's it. | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:06 - Oct 18 with 1141 views | Darth_Koont |
The door should be open. It’s the same door I’d go through if and when I think Cook isn’t the answer.
But I think I agree with the overall criticism you’re giving. So many people have gone black and white so early. I took one look at the forum right after the Cambridge game and thought “Nah, waste of time”.
However anyone looks at it, to keep his job, Cook needs to show an improving, strengthening side. That’s all that matters. And he’s sort of doing that even if the improvements are slow.
But I’m starting to think the last 20 years has made us a little too desperate to see quick fixes and we’re confusing turning the ship around with standing still. It would be a real shame if we end up lurching to another manager and the same problem of looking for another quick fix. |  |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:07 - Oct 18 with 1138 views | jayessess |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 18:38 - Oct 18 by Herbivore |
Indeed. Mick came in when we were rock bottom and inherited a squad of Jewell's players who he could get nothing out of. He took us on a very good run and quickly got us out of trouble. It's not unheard of, especially where good managers are concerned, to come in and make a group of players more effective. |
Whisper it, but for all they were hateful losers who couldn't possibly be managed into a football team functional enough to beat Northampton Town, you could name more than 11 players who Cook either elected to keep, wanted to keep or who currently play for teams above us in the EFL. | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:37 - Oct 18 with 1112 views | itfcjoe |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:06 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
The door should be open. It’s the same door I’d go through if and when I think Cook isn’t the answer.
But I think I agree with the overall criticism you’re giving. So many people have gone black and white so early. I took one look at the forum right after the Cambridge game and thought “Nah, waste of time”.
However anyone looks at it, to keep his job, Cook needs to show an improving, strengthening side. That’s all that matters. And he’s sort of doing that even if the improvements are slow.
But I’m starting to think the last 20 years has made us a little too desperate to see quick fixes and we’re confusing turning the ship around with standing still. It would be a real shame if we end up lurching to another manager and the same problem of looking for another quick fix. |
It feels to me more that the last 20 years has made us as a fanbase so desperate for any success we see it when it isn’t there - we are so desperate that the Donny win was us turning a corner that we talk ourselves into it and then the crushing reality comes over us the next game.
Since Mick, every manager has been put on a massive pedestal by not being the last guy, before they have earned it. No manager can ever just be left to start his job, they are billed as the messiah from day one |  |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:39 - Oct 18 with 1107 views | Darth_Koont |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:37 - Oct 18 by itfcjoe |
It feels to me more that the last 20 years has made us as a fanbase so desperate for any success we see it when it isn’t there - we are so desperate that the Donny win was us turning a corner that we talk ourselves into it and then the crushing reality comes over us the next game.
Since Mick, every manager has been put on a massive pedestal by not being the last guy, before they have earned it. No manager can ever just be left to start his job, they are billed as the messiah from day one |
And vice versa with bells on.
As I said, people are far too eager to turn everything into a black and white situation. | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 20:59 - Oct 18 with 1065 views | Illinoisblue |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 19:39 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
And vice versa with bells on.
As I said, people are far too eager to turn everything into a black and white situation. |
And everything is amplified beyond reason thanks to social media. We’re all guilty at times of getting sucked into it but Facking hell, how much analysis and how many podcasts does a League One side need? The relentless onslaught of opinion is exhausting. Remember the old days when you’d go to the game, piss and moan on the way home, then get on with life for the rest of the week. TWTD |  |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 21:59 - Oct 19 with 942 views | MaySixth |
Ssshhhhh | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 22:03 - Oct 19 with 919 views | Burns7 |
We're 13th and it's nearly November, if Lambert was still boss you'd all be foaming at this failure. Am I glad Town won? Yes. Do I think Cook is great tonight? No. Do I think he's failed. Yes.
If he does however turn it around and we go up I will put my hands up and say I was wrong, but presently we're still in the middle of this league, where we have been for the past 3 years so forgive me if I don't wet myself with excitement. |  | | |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 22:05 - Oct 19 with 894 views | Darth_Koont |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 22:03 - Oct 19 by Burns7 |
We're 13th and it's nearly November, if Lambert was still boss you'd all be foaming at this failure. Am I glad Town won? Yes. Do I think Cook is great tonight? No. Do I think he's failed. Yes.
If he does however turn it around and we go up I will put my hands up and say I was wrong, but presently we're still in the middle of this league, where we have been for the past 3 years so forgive me if I don't wet myself with excitement. |
Why make up your mind to be miserable? | |
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| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 22:05 - Oct 19 with 890 views | SuperCoops |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 21:59 - Oct 19 by MaySixth |
Ssshhhhh |
Welcome back. |  | | |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 22:08 - Oct 19 with 880 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Everyone who has gone Cook Out has boxed themselves into a corner on 22:03 - Oct 19 by Burns7 |
We're 13th and it's nearly November, if Lambert was still boss you'd all be foaming at this failure. Am I glad Town won? Yes. Do I think Cook is great tonight? No. Do I think he's failed. Yes.
If he does however turn it around and we go up I will put my hands up and say I was wrong, but presently we're still in the middle of this league, where we have been for the past 3 years so forgive me if I don't wet myself with excitement. |
It takes a special kind of supporter to make a post like this after a 4-0 away win when the ball's barely stopped rolling. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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