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Harassment allegations - advice? 08:37 - Oct 19 with 9913 viewsZx1988

I've recently commenced a money claim in the Small Claims Court against a former client who has opted not to pay for my services, despite the existence of a contract etc., essentially a fairly straightforward affair, but that's by the by.

Yesterday I received a call from an officer at my local police station advising that the defendant has made a complaint of harassment against me, and we have agreed that he will visit me this evening to discuss her claims.

I do not believe that I have undertaken any conduct that constitutes harassment. I have sent the defendant three letters:

*The legally-required Letter Before Claim
*A letter containing a copy of the claim form sent to HMCTS along with an offer to settle
*A subsequent offer to settle (and confirmation of my intention to see the claim through) following the defendant's refusal to engage with the HMCTS-appointed arbitration service

I don't believe any of the above conduct is unreasonable in the context of an ongoing legal case, and I would suggest that the lack of unreasonableness is sufficient to meet the following defence:

That in the particular circumstance the purported action is held to be reasonable.

I guess the counter-point is that this is the first time I have been involved with the police as a suspect and, sitting on this overnight, I'm worried that it might not go as simply as I'm hoping. I know that this is simply an attempt by the defendant to try and frustrate the process and intimidate me into dropping my claim, but on the other side I know that the police tend to have a bit of a thing about harassment, especially when it's alleged to have been committed by a man against a woman.

Can anyone offer me any thoughts as to what I should expect?

Part of me is inclined to believe that the officer will try to offer me a First Harassment Warning in that it will allow him to easily tie the matter up, and I'll be let off with no real action, but given that an FHW can be disclosed by an enhanced DBS check, and (as is my understanding) I've done nothing wrong, I don't want to feel coerced into accepting this outcome. What is likely to happen if an FHW is offered and refused?

Thanks!

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:43 - Oct 19 with 3487 viewswkj

With all honesty - this is very much one to discuss with your solicitor.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:44 - Oct 19 with 3471 viewsHerbivore

Your actions don't sound at all unreasonable. As long as you have the paperwork to back up your account of the situation I can't imagine the police will look to take it any further. I can't see how an offence has been committed in you sending three letters trying to secure payment for services. Definitely don't accept a warning from them, it's an admission of wrongdoing and on your account of events you haven't done anything wrong. Much as the police look to take these things seriously, as they should, they also know that people make vexatious claims which is what this seems to be.

As WKJ says, might not hurt to get some legal advice if you can but it seems like she's trying it on in the hope you won't pursue your legitimate claim against her.
[Post edited 19 Oct 2021 8:46]

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:45 - Oct 19 with 3476 viewsZx1988

Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:43 - Oct 19 by wkj

With all honesty - this is very much one to discuss with your solicitor.


I agree, but at the same time it's highly unlikely that I'm going to be able to get anything sorted before my visit today.

I know there's no chance of getting legal advice here, but it would be good if anyone can give me any sort of idea of what to expect.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:48 - Oct 19 with 3458 viewswkj

Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:45 - Oct 19 by Zx1988

I agree, but at the same time it's highly unlikely that I'm going to be able to get anything sorted before my visit today.

I know there's no chance of getting legal advice here, but it would be good if anyone can give me any sort of idea of what to expect.


Can the police not postpone that visit as part of you seeking legal advice on the issue?

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:50 - Oct 19 with 3427 viewsbluelagos

Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:45 - Oct 19 by Zx1988

I agree, but at the same time it's highly unlikely that I'm going to be able to get anything sorted before my visit today.

I know there's no chance of getting legal advice here, but it would be good if anyone can give me any sort of idea of what to expect.


So why not put the copper off until you have spoken to your solicitor?

The copper's job is to collect evidence of an alleged crime, that is why he is seeing you. You should be well aware of the implications of what you say and what accepting any sort of caution will mean. A solicitor is clearly the best person to give that advice rather than well intentioned posters on a football messageboard.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:51 - Oct 19 with 3433 viewsHerbivore

Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:48 - Oct 19 by wkj

Can the police not postpone that visit as part of you seeking legal advice on the issue?


Although the police might question why he's needing to seek legal advice when he's not being arrested or spoken to under caution, and that could lead to them treating it more formally. It's a tricky balance.
[Post edited 19 Oct 2021 8:52]

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:52 - Oct 19 with 3413 viewsZXBlue

Normal steps in reasonable litigation cannot constitute harassment.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:53 - Oct 19 with 3407 viewsZXBlue

Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:50 - Oct 19 by bluelagos

So why not put the copper off until you have spoken to your solicitor?

The copper's job is to collect evidence of an alleged crime, that is why he is seeing you. You should be well aware of the implications of what you say and what accepting any sort of caution will mean. A solicitor is clearly the best person to give that advice rather than well intentioned posters on a football messageboard.


If it is genuinely as simple as suggested, that frankly makes you look concerned or that you have something to hide. And you wont get the money back if you pay for a solicitor...

Of course, if the letters are abusive thats another issue. If they are businesslike and tot he point, no issue.
[Post edited 19 Oct 2021 8:57]
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:01 - Oct 19 with 3371 viewsgordon

In any situation like this, a really good bit of advice is do everything you can to remain as calm as possible in the situation with the police - don't bad mouth the other party in any way shape or form, go miles out of your way to appear really, really reasonable, calm and fair.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:18 - Oct 19 with 3295 viewsPinewoodblue

You are assuming you know how you have supposedly harassed this individual, it is likely that they will have made more of it than three letters.

Allow the police to visit, listen to what they have to say and if there is more to it than you currently suspect then politely tell the police officer that the allegations are spurious and you need to consult your solicitor before saying anymore.

Even if the allegations, when you hear them, make you angry remember to stay calm.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:20 - Oct 19 with 3298 viewsTooManyCooks

What kind of services didn't she pay for? Yes, this is relevant. How do you know the woman? Any history prior to, or following, your contractual arrangement?

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:31 - Oct 19 with 3264 viewsgiant_stow

A good friend of mine had a similar situation with a client who just wouldn't pay what was owed. Don't do what she did: she sent her large son around to collect. It turned out the client was in with some local gangsters who then paid my friend a visit.

The story had a happy ending though - during the visit, it turned out that my friend also knew the local gangsters (better) who then went back to client and made her pay up.

Cool story bro (but kind of relevant).Islignton life is a bit more rough-edged than people realise.
[Post edited 19 Oct 2021 9:33]

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:39 - Oct 19 with 3239 viewsTooManyCooks

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:20 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks

What kind of services didn't she pay for? Yes, this is relevant. How do you know the woman? Any history prior to, or following, your contractual arrangement?


Look, to save both of us hours and hours of back and forth, the simple answer is, you need to contact a Solicitor straight away.

There are a huge amount of factors thrown into the mix with claims like these, such as your background, previous convictions etc, the fact that the the woman is unlikely to have reported you to the police for sending three letters, she may have alleged that you attended her property 3 nights last week and threatened her with physical violence.

The Police do not "pop round for a chat" regarding an allegation of a serious criminal offence, anything you say could have meaningful consequences in the future, whether you knew that to be the case, or not. The first interrogation (that's what your meeting with the police is) can be the most important, a Solicitor will gather info from the police, assess the claim and advise you accordingly, it may well be that the Solicitor directs you to make a prepared statement regarding the allegation, maybe not, but you will be advised professionally and can be confident that what you are doing is right.

You don't have to stick with your previously agreed meeting with the Police, if you wish to alter it, contact them and say you don't feel comfortable having a meeting without a Solicitor present, this is not an admission of guilt, it's due diligence.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:40 - Oct 19 with 3213 viewschicoazul

Have you tried turning it off then on again?

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:42 - Oct 19 with 3203 viewschicoazul

Harassment allegations - advice? on 08:45 - Oct 19 by Zx1988

I agree, but at the same time it's highly unlikely that I'm going to be able to get anything sorted before my visit today.

I know there's no chance of getting legal advice here, but it would be good if anyone can give me any sort of idea of what to expect.


But seriously; do NOT TALK TO THE FEDS without a solicitor present. You need additional expert advice when dealing with them at all times. Avoid talking to them whenever possible.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:45 - Oct 19 with 3172 viewsZXBlue

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:42 - Oct 19 by chicoazul

But seriously; do NOT TALK TO THE FEDS without a solicitor present. You need additional expert advice when dealing with them at all times. Avoid talking to them whenever possible.


They are not feds, and if it is simply three letters there is no problem. Seriously. Normal people who behave normally do not generally have any issues dealing with the police. (of course, before someone says it, there are very rare and extreme exceptions).
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:46 - Oct 19 with 3183 viewsTooManyCooks

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:39 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks

Look, to save both of us hours and hours of back and forth, the simple answer is, you need to contact a Solicitor straight away.

There are a huge amount of factors thrown into the mix with claims like these, such as your background, previous convictions etc, the fact that the the woman is unlikely to have reported you to the police for sending three letters, she may have alleged that you attended her property 3 nights last week and threatened her with physical violence.

The Police do not "pop round for a chat" regarding an allegation of a serious criminal offence, anything you say could have meaningful consequences in the future, whether you knew that to be the case, or not. The first interrogation (that's what your meeting with the police is) can be the most important, a Solicitor will gather info from the police, assess the claim and advise you accordingly, it may well be that the Solicitor directs you to make a prepared statement regarding the allegation, maybe not, but you will be advised professionally and can be confident that what you are doing is right.

You don't have to stick with your previously agreed meeting with the Police, if you wish to alter it, contact them and say you don't feel comfortable having a meeting without a Solicitor present, this is not an admission of guilt, it's due diligence.


If you are concerned about the costs of a Solicitor, this is an FYI, anybody and everybody is entitled to free legal advice from a solicitor where a criminal offence is alleged to have taken place. Police stations have duty solicitors they call in situations such as these, because funnily enough, most people don't have a specialist solicitor on speed dial. The good thing about duty solicitors, is that they are quite often ex-plod themselves and know the police process inside out and have a good insight into the game that is being played, even if they're not ex plod, they do this job a 1000 times a day (more often than not for far more serious offences) every day and know the routine like the back of their hand and likely know all the plod very well too, which is in your favour.

hedgehog flavoured cucumbers

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:48 - Oct 19 with 3160 viewschicoazul

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:45 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue

They are not feds, and if it is simply three letters there is no problem. Seriously. Normal people who behave normally do not generally have any issues dealing with the police. (of course, before someone says it, there are very rare and extreme exceptions).


Incorrect.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:49 - Oct 19 with 3143 viewsZXBlue

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:48 - Oct 19 by chicoazul

Incorrect.


It really isn't.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:51 - Oct 19 with 3130 viewsHerbivore

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:45 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue

They are not feds, and if it is simply three letters there is no problem. Seriously. Normal people who behave normally do not generally have any issues dealing with the police. (of course, before someone says it, there are very rare and extreme exceptions).


I have to say that I personally would not be spending money on a solicitor if I was in this situation and it was as the OP has explained. If it turns into an interview under caution then that changes things but otherwise it feels somewhat heavy handed. I respect others are more cautious in their approach, and can probably afford to burn a couple of hundred quid in legal fees without a second thought, but I've had dealings with the police professionally and wouldn't have any qualms speaking to them informally.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:51 - Oct 19 with 3131 viewschicoazul

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:49 - Oct 19 by ZXBlue

It really isn't.


Afraid so. Many police forces are institutionally corrupt. I am truly amazed in this day and age that anyone would argue with my simple advice of having additional expert advice in the specific scenario offered by OP.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:52 - Oct 19 with 3121 viewsHerbivore

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:46 - Oct 19 by TooManyCooks

If you are concerned about the costs of a Solicitor, this is an FYI, anybody and everybody is entitled to free legal advice from a solicitor where a criminal offence is alleged to have taken place. Police stations have duty solicitors they call in situations such as these, because funnily enough, most people don't have a specialist solicitor on speed dial. The good thing about duty solicitors, is that they are quite often ex-plod themselves and know the police process inside out and have a good insight into the game that is being played, even if they're not ex plod, they do this job a 1000 times a day (more often than not for far more serious offences) every day and know the routine like the back of their hand and likely know all the plod very well too, which is in your favour.


That's only the case if you are being interviewed under caution and there's no indication that that's the case here.

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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:53 - Oct 19 with 3112 viewsZXBlue

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:51 - Oct 19 by Herbivore

I have to say that I personally would not be spending money on a solicitor if I was in this situation and it was as the OP has explained. If it turns into an interview under caution then that changes things but otherwise it feels somewhat heavy handed. I respect others are more cautious in their approach, and can probably afford to burn a couple of hundred quid in legal fees without a second thought, but I've had dealings with the police professionally and wouldn't have any qualms speaking to them informally.


Exactly. An interview under caution is a different thing.

If it is genuinely as straightforward as the op suggests, you show them the letters and they go away NFA.
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:53 - Oct 19 with 3119 viewschicoazul

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:51 - Oct 19 by Herbivore

I have to say that I personally would not be spending money on a solicitor if I was in this situation and it was as the OP has explained. If it turns into an interview under caution then that changes things but otherwise it feels somewhat heavy handed. I respect others are more cautious in their approach, and can probably afford to burn a couple of hundred quid in legal fees without a second thought, but I've had dealings with the police professionally and wouldn't have any qualms speaking to them informally.


You don’t have to spend anything. Another poster has explained a duty solicitor is available.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:53 - Oct 19 with 3106 viewsZXBlue

Harassment allegations - advice? on 09:51 - Oct 19 by chicoazul

Afraid so. Many police forces are institutionally corrupt. I am truly amazed in this day and age that anyone would argue with my simple advice of having additional expert advice in the specific scenario offered by OP.


Even if that were true, the idea that this would lead to some nonsensical stitch up over sending a letter (which could never hold up in court) is absurd.
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