| 2 defeats in 15 games 17:15 - Nov 17 with 6455 views | dominiciawful |
Decent. |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:40 - Nov 17 with 2252 views | pennblue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:31 - Nov 17 by Herbivore |
Didn't Richardson become manager at Wigan only a few months before Cook took over here? He's had the job permanently less time than Cook in fact. Lee Johnson at Sunderland, also only a few months before Cook. The MK Dons manager was only appointed in August. It's really not outrageous to think Cook could have done better with the resources at his disposal this season. |
Well he has been there for quite some time overall, and has had a couple of spells as caretaker too. But he seemed to have the reigns since November last year.
MK Dons only had 10 new faces in the door. MK Dons have also had a fairly decent past decade as a club (Karl Robinson previously there). But no doubt Manning has done a good job there (and may end up here at some point given his history).
There are always if's and but's. But no, it is not outrageous to say he could have done better, but to suggest if he 'fails' if he does not achieve automatic promotion, I think, is a bit harsh. Play-Offs I think is a reasonable expectation, anything less than that I would agree would be failure. |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 19:18 - Nov 17 with 2199 views | Herbivore |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:40 - Nov 17 by pennblue |
Well he has been there for quite some time overall, and has had a couple of spells as caretaker too. But he seemed to have the reigns since November last year.
MK Dons only had 10 new faces in the door. MK Dons have also had a fairly decent past decade as a club (Karl Robinson previously there). But no doubt Manning has done a good job there (and may end up here at some point given his history).
There are always if's and but's. But no, it is not outrageous to say he could have done better, but to suggest if he 'fails' if he does not achieve automatic promotion, I think, is a bit harsh. Play-Offs I think is a reasonable expectation, anything less than that I would agree would be failure. |
There are degrees of failure, for me promotion by any means is a success. If we lose out in the play offs then, imo, we've failed. Whether that failure is enough for Cook to go would depend on circumstances but given the backing he's had it would be a failure. People have been debating today whether to play Chaplin or Celina at the weekend. To be having that debate in League 1 is insane really, the quality in our squad is ridiculous relative to our rivals. [Post edited 17 Nov 2021 19:30]
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 19:27 - Nov 17 with 2200 views | MattinLondon |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:10 - Nov 17 by pennblue |
Sorry have to disagree with you and BlueBadger. If you look at the teams at the top of this league with a level of consistency, you will see their managers have been there for at least 2 years:
Rotherham - Paul Warne - 5 years
Wycombe - Gareth Ainsworth 10+ years
Plymouth - 2 years
Wigan - May 2017 - Richardson - 1 to 4 years depending on how you count it
Oxford United - 4 years Karl Robinson
and for some reason you expect Paul Cook to be Top of the League after a couple of months with his new squad?
On what basis do you expect Paul Cook to outperform these other teams after such a short amount of time in the job?
I am intrigued into your thinking. |
I never said I expect the team to be top of the league. I’m simply saying that, given the resources that have been allocated to him, it’s not unreasonable to expect the team to be averaging two points a match.
Also, I do not believe the argument that he can only be judged on this season. He was appointed last season when we were only a couple or so points off the play offs and he failed to lift the team to achieve better than what Lambert managed.
I’m not going to give Cook a free pass simply because it’s a new squad - he decided to totally take apart the squad, no body forced him to do so. I totally accept that I’m in the minority in this view but there you go. People have different views.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be ecstatic if we go up but for the moment at least I expected better. |  | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 20:37 - Nov 17 with 2163 views | Geomorph |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:10 - Nov 17 by pennblue |
Sorry have to disagree with you and BlueBadger. If you look at the teams at the top of this league with a level of consistency, you will see their managers have been there for at least 2 years:
Rotherham - Paul Warne - 5 years
Wycombe - Gareth Ainsworth 10+ years
Plymouth - 2 years
Wigan - May 2017 - Richardson - 1 to 4 years depending on how you count it
Oxford United - 4 years Karl Robinson
and for some reason you expect Paul Cook to be Top of the League after a couple of months with his new squad?
On what basis do you expect Paul Cook to outperform these other teams after such a short amount of time in the job?
I am intrigued into your thinking. |
I trust none of the discontented are bothering coming to Sunderland… |  | | |
| Yeah it's amazing..... on 20:47 - Nov 17 with 2163 views | Bloots |
...a couple more wins and we might get back to the league position we were in before Cook took over.
What a time to be alive. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 20:49 - Nov 17 with 2155 views | Keaneish |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:13 - Nov 17 by BlueBadger |
I wouldn't go as far as to say that getting promoted via the playoffs would be failure, but not to be to even in the races for the automatic slots is underperformance. [Post edited 17 Nov 2021 18:30]
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The Badger coming out of hibernation from his set to have a little nose around now results and performances are on the up. Who saw that one coming? |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 21:11 - Nov 17 with 2106 views | pennblue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 20:37 - Nov 17 by Geomorph |
I trust none of the discontented are bothering coming to Sunderland… |
You can’t keep everyone happy that’s for sure!
But there can’t be many cases of managers creating a promotion winning side off one transfer window regardless of budget. Not when they have just walked into the club and had to do a complete turnover. | |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 21:21 - Nov 17 with 2099 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 17:43 - Nov 17 by StokieBlue |
What about those who don't want to be forced to stand to enjoy it?
SB |
I’m not sure what you want me to say. If people don’t want to stand, the options are to go down the front to the front two rows and sit, not go at all or stand.
But you’re not going to convince an away end of 3,200 to sit down away. |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 21:27 - Nov 17 with 2081 views | Keaneish |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 17:43 - Nov 17 by StokieBlue |
What about those who don't want to be forced to stand to enjoy it?
SB |
Like armchair fans you mean? | |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 23:45 - Nov 17 with 2022 views | BlueBadger |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 20:49 - Nov 17 by Keaneish |
The Badger coming out of hibernation from his set to have a little nose around now results and performances are on the up. Who saw that one coming? |
Its almost like I waited to see what happened BEFORE I decided to join a cult around a manager with previously indifferent results.
And am still broadly undecided.
But open to persuasion.
On the basis of actual results. |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 00:26 - Nov 18 with 2002 views | reusersfreekicks |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 18:36 - Nov 17 by chrismakin |
Only 4 points off the latter 2 clubs
And with leam he was already at the club so not sure why you've included him lol he'd coached the side he then managed so hardly a big change there. And signed some players he'd already coached and who'd played with others already in the team.
The need to still see it as failure imo is getting silly now. |
Err we are outside the top 6 in div 3. In 180 mins of football at home to Oldham and Colchester we couldn't get past either of them. We are getting better but not there yet. |  | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 05:07 - Nov 18 with 1977 views | Keaneish |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 23:45 - Nov 17 by BlueBadger |
Its almost like I waited to see what happened BEFORE I decided to join a cult around a manager with previously indifferent results.
And am still broadly undecided.
But open to persuasion.
On the basis of actual results. |
Ah yes, #safetyfirst, the perennial fence sit. Steady, by the time you take the seat belt off the season will be over.
You’ve cited performances and the match experience not being to your satisfaction in the past. So I assume that’s still the case. Looks like you’re looking for an even bigger up turn in results too despite 1 defeat in 11, in the next round of two cups and averaging 1.83pts ppg since we, “clicked”.
So, the reality is, unless we’re consistently in the top two, you’re not a fan of Cook despite all the other positive progress both on and off the pitch. In short, unless we’re winning, you’re not really a fan. Maybe enjoy the season for what it is rather than treading water and clinging to Herbs (who still hasn’t been to a game yet). [Post edited 18 Nov 2021 5:23]
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 05:30 - Nov 18 with 1972 views | Keaneish |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 20:37 - Nov 17 by Geomorph |
I trust none of the discontented are bothering coming to Sunderland… |
…or Charlton. | |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 07:31 - Nov 18 with 1913 views | Herbivore |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 05:07 - Nov 18 by Keaneish |
Ah yes, #safetyfirst, the perennial fence sit. Steady, by the time you take the seat belt off the season will be over.
You’ve cited performances and the match experience not being to your satisfaction in the past. So I assume that’s still the case. Looks like you’re looking for an even bigger up turn in results too despite 1 defeat in 11, in the next round of two cups and averaging 1.83pts ppg since we, “clicked”.
So, the reality is, unless we’re consistently in the top two, you’re not a fan of Cook despite all the other positive progress both on and off the pitch. In short, unless we’re winning, you’re not really a fan. Maybe enjoy the season for what it is rather than treading water and clinging to Herbs (who still hasn’t been to a game yet). [Post edited 18 Nov 2021 5:23]
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This is quite delicious from the numpty who wore his years of non-attendance as a badge of honour who thinks he's a superfan because he occasionally goes to games now we're a midtable third division side. Apologies that I can't manage a 700 mile plus round trip to PR every week, how remiss of me. What a terrible fan I am. I did make it to the Morecambe and Bolton games of course, at least one of which you missed which just adds to the hilarity of your weird superfan shtick. Please keep my name out of your mouth, you're a bad joke and one I'd rather not keep hearing. [Post edited 18 Nov 2021 7:32]
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 07:40 - Nov 18 with 1886 views | chrismakin |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 00:26 - Nov 18 by reusersfreekicks |
Err we are outside the top 6 in div 3. In 180 mins of football at home to Oldham and Colchester we couldn't get past either of them. We are getting better but not there yet. |
I agree we aren't there yet. But I don't agree that its still a failure.
Appreciate your thoughts on the 2 cup games. But we have progressed through both Cup competitions. Scored almost more goals than last season ( think we are 8 off?) With half the season left.
Absolutely lots still to do.. but in general the improvements to the club on and off the field are clear to see and I just think failure needs to be put on the back-burner as presently its anything but a failure. ( depending on the actual expectations of the owners of course rather than what a small minority of fans think it is) |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 08:12 - Nov 18 with 1874 views | braveblue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 17:32 - Nov 17 by ArnieM |
How about 9th in the division. Not even half way through season , 4 points off play offs , with a brand new squad !
No, I know , let’s all be a bunch of pessimistic pillocks like good old Ipswich Town fans .
Cue the “down narrows”, and usual patronising individual to reply …… over to you carrot cruncher . |
Exactly right. Another step up second half of season and we can make it. | | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 09:05 - Nov 18 with 1815 views | blue62 |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 17:32 - Nov 17 by ArnieM |
How about 9th in the division. Not even half way through season , 4 points off play offs , with a brand new squad !
No, I know , let’s all be a bunch of pessimistic pillocks like good old Ipswich Town fans .
Cue the “down narrows”, and usual patronising individual to reply …… over to you carrot cruncher . |
Up arrow, I’m an eternal optimist |  | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:14 - Nov 18 with 1762 views | timothyeo |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 17:32 - Nov 17 by chrismakin |
PC has a better away win % than Mccarthy at town:)
According to statman [Post edited 17 Nov 2021 17:33]
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I mean you would bl**dy hope so!
Cook with one of the strongest squads in League One has a higher away in % than McCarthy with one of the weakest squads in the Championship?! That would be absolute minimum expectation | | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:18 - Nov 18 with 1748 views | Herbivore |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 08:12 - Nov 18 by braveblue |
Exactly right. Another step up second half of season and we can make it. |
Can make what? The play offs? I think that's achievable but that was a bare minimum expectation at the start of the season. Top 2 is already gone I think. | |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:20 - Nov 18 with 1741 views | StokieBlue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:18 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
Can make what? The play offs? I think that's achievable but that was a bare minimum expectation at the start of the season. Top 2 is already gone I think. |
The playoffs should be more than achievable from here.
The top 2 is unlikely as you say, it's going to depend on how we do against the top teams. If we somehow take 6 points off Sunderland, Wigan, Rotherham then it could be possible but that is a massive ask and pretty unlikely.
SB |  | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:28 - Nov 18 with 1722 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:18 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
Can make what? The play offs? I think that's achievable but that was a bare minimum expectation at the start of the season. Top 2 is already gone I think. |
Can make what? Promotion. |  | | |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:33 - Nov 18 with 1709 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 17:43 - Nov 17 by StokieBlue |
What about those who don't want to be forced to stand to enjoy it?
SB |
Why anyone would want to go to a football match and SIT and watch it is beyond me, just doesn't seem right. |  |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:34 - Nov 18 with 1705 views | Herbivore |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:20 - Nov 18 by StokieBlue |
The playoffs should be more than achievable from here.
The top 2 is unlikely as you say, it's going to depend on how we do against the top teams. If we somehow take 6 points off Sunderland, Wigan, Rotherham then it could be possible but that is a massive ask and pretty unlikely.
SB |
I think top 2 is out of reach even if we win all those games, which as you say is unlikely. 87 points is about average for top 2, though I think it might take 90 this year as there's a few strong sides. To get to 87 points which may or may not be enough we need to average just over 2.17 points per game. Another poster above is lauding us averaging 1.83 points per game which is a fair way below what we'd need to even get close to the top 2.
Think the aim needs to be the best side in the division over the second half of the season and see where that takes us. I think 4th is probably our ceiling now but you never know. If we go into the play offs as the form side then we're in with a chance. | |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:35 - Nov 18 with 1702 views | Herbivore |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:33 - Nov 18 by Wallingford_Boy |
Why anyone would want to go to a football match and SIT and watch it is beyond me, just doesn't seem right. |
I imagine people with health issues, people who are older who find standing for 90 minutes challenging. There's lots of reasons why people go to games and don't want to stand, as has been discussed on here plenty. Not everyone is young, healthy, and able bodied. | |
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| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:42 - Nov 18 with 1684 views | StokieBlue |
| 2 defeats in 15 games on 10:33 - Nov 18 by Wallingford_Boy |
Why anyone would want to go to a football match and SIT and watch it is beyond me, just doesn't seem right. |
Let people watch the match however they like, it doesn't make them less of a fan that you.
My point was that yesterday, Rommers said he looked forward to people being upset and moaning about being made to stand which I think is a pretty awful look really.
SB | | | |
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