| This is horrible news 17:05 - Nov 24 with 3810 views | GlasgowBlue |
That people are so desperate that they put their lives at risk should not be met with hostility. We need to be doing so much more to help refugees settle in the UK so that they don't have to resort to such desperate measure.
R.I.P. all of those who lost their lives.
Edit. Up to 29 dead now. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 17:41]
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| This is horrible news on 17:10 - Nov 24 with 2396 views | Mullet |
Stop voting Tory should be the first thing everybody does. Imagine being so insecure that you’re threatened by people in dinghies, yet people seem to love punching down and venerating the corrupt public schoolboys stealing far more from us than a naval fleet of immigrants ever could. |  |
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| This is horrible news on 17:41 - Nov 24 with 2261 views | Steve_M |
It seems that a Home Secretary pushing "Drown them all" policies might have consequences.
It is an abysmal failure of both moral and political leadership that this country continues to restrict legal routes to asylum. The blame for this tragedy is widespread. |  |
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| This is horrible news on 17:41 - Nov 24 with 2252 views | textbackup |
| This is horrible news on 17:10 - Nov 24 by Mullet |
Stop voting Tory should be the first thing everybody does. Imagine being so insecure that you’re threatened by people in dinghies, yet people seem to love punching down and venerating the corrupt public schoolboys stealing far more from us than a naval fleet of immigrants ever could. |
To confirm, if we don’t vote labour the sea will become less rough and the boats won’t capsize? |  |
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| This is horrible news on 17:43 - Nov 24 with 2229 views | BlueBadger |
| This is horrible news on 17:41 - Nov 24 by Steve_M |
It seems that a Home Secretary pushing "Drown them all" policies might have consequences.
It is an abysmal failure of both moral and political leadership that this country continues to restrict legal routes to asylum. The blame for this tragedy is widespread. |
*Starts the 'this is why it's Labour's fault' clock* |  |
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| This is horrible news on 17:57 - Nov 24 with 2177 views | DinDjarin |
Not sure they made it far enough to get any hostility but I get your point. Something needs to change.
Very very sad and unnecessary. |  | | |
| This is horrible news on 18:11 - Nov 24 with 2114 views | eireblue |
| This is horrible news on 17:41 - Nov 24 by textbackup |
To confirm, if we don’t vote labour the sea will become less rough and the boats won’t capsize? |
So you think the issue is lack of access to weather information and boat size? |  | | |
| This is horrible news on 18:29 - Nov 24 with 2059 views | RadioOrwell |
| This is horrible news on 17:41 - Nov 24 by textbackup |
To confirm, if we don’t vote labour the sea will become less rough and the boats won’t capsize? |
That is a pathetically childish, ignorant response.
Try and be a better person. |  | | |
| This is horrible news on 18:37 - Nov 24 with 2021 views | Lord_Lucan |
It's terrible news, really awful, I can't imagine the terror of it all.
But let's get something straight here -
1/ Why are these people risking their lives to flee a safe country to enter another safe country? It makes no sense at all.
2/ Why aren't the French border force and Navy doing more to stop these crossings and or turn these boats back before they hit deep water and danger - this is not a difficult task should they wish to do so.
............and before I get the TW4TD standard - "You are a racist, nazi scumbag" let me tell you that I have absolutely no problem with immigration, I welcome it and would be happy to take much more than we officially do - but they should be vetted and be accepted from official refugee camps, there should also be an emphasis put on families and children.
There is no place for gangster funded makeshift death trap boats being allowed to make this crossing. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:38]
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| This is horrible news on 18:42 - Nov 24 with 1977 views | Pinewoodblue |
| This is horrible news on 18:37 - Nov 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's terrible news, really awful, I can't imagine the terror of it all.
But let's get something straight here -
1/ Why are these people risking their lives to flee a safe country to enter another safe country? It makes no sense at all.
2/ Why aren't the French border force and Navy doing more to stop these crossings and or turn these boats back before they hit deep water and danger - this is not a difficult task should they wish to do so.
............and before I get the TW4TD standard - "You are a racist, nazi scumbag" let me tell you that I have absolutely no problem with immigration, I welcome it and would be happy to take much more than we officially do - but they should be vetted and be accepted from official refugee camps, there should also be an emphasis put on families and children.
There is no place for gangster funded makeshift death trap boats being allowed to make this crossing. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:38]
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Glad someone feels the same way as I do. This was an avoidable tragedy waiting to happen and brings shame to those who turned a blind eye. |  |
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| This is horrible news on 18:50 - Nov 24 with 1920 views | tractordownsouth |
| This is horrible news on 17:43 - Nov 24 by BlueBadger |
*Starts the 'this is why it's Labour's fault' clock* |
Dan Hodges is writing a column on it as we speak |  |
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| This is horrible news on 18:51 - Nov 24 with 1921 views | eireblue |
| This is horrible news on 18:37 - Nov 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's terrible news, really awful, I can't imagine the terror of it all.
But let's get something straight here -
1/ Why are these people risking their lives to flee a safe country to enter another safe country? It makes no sense at all.
2/ Why aren't the French border force and Navy doing more to stop these crossings and or turn these boats back before they hit deep water and danger - this is not a difficult task should they wish to do so.
............and before I get the TW4TD standard - "You are a racist, nazi scumbag" let me tell you that I have absolutely no problem with immigration, I welcome it and would be happy to take much more than we officially do - but they should be vetted and be accepted from official refugee camps, there should also be an emphasis put on families and children.
There is no place for gangster funded makeshift death trap boats being allowed to make this crossing. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:38]
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You sort have answered your own questions.
UK doesn’t provide safe easy legal routes.
UK doesn’t provide an easy way to allow refugees to reunite with family.
Some people have voted for this.
On 1. This has been done before. European Court of Human Rights has found that France has been violating migrants human rights.
“Of particular concern is the risk to unaccompanied children and vulnerable adults such as women and survivors of torture, who are not protected by the French asylum system and are at risk of trafficking and slavery.” | | | |
| This is horrible news on 18:57 - Nov 24 with 1884 views | Whos_blue |
| This is horrible news on 17:41 - Nov 24 by textbackup |
To confirm, if we don’t vote labour the sea will become less rough and the boats won’t capsize? |
Oh dear.
Please consider taking the opportunity to come back and explain that you misspoke and it was a poorly timed and executed attempt at dry humour.
I think you'll feel better for it.
This doesn't read well for you mate. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| This is horrible news on 19:00 - Nov 24 with 1869 views | tractordownsouth |
| This is horrible news on 18:37 - Nov 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's terrible news, really awful, I can't imagine the terror of it all.
But let's get something straight here -
1/ Why are these people risking their lives to flee a safe country to enter another safe country? It makes no sense at all.
2/ Why aren't the French border force and Navy doing more to stop these crossings and or turn these boats back before they hit deep water and danger - this is not a difficult task should they wish to do so.
............and before I get the TW4TD standard - "You are a racist, nazi scumbag" let me tell you that I have absolutely no problem with immigration, I welcome it and would be happy to take much more than we officially do - but they should be vetted and be accepted from official refugee camps, there should also be an emphasis put on families and children.
There is no place for gangster funded makeshift death trap boats being allowed to make this crossing. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:38]
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I don’t think it’s as simple as that. There are all sorts of horror stories about what’s happening in France (who already take many more than we do) and the conditions in Calais. Taking people from camps seems sensible but I don’t see how people can physically be stopped from making alternative journeys. There are no easy answers but some of the suggestions (like offshore detention camps) are awful.
The safe country argument also has no basis in international law, although ironically there was capacity to do that within the EU. There needs to be much more co-operation with this, rather than posturing from ministers desperate to appeal to the Tory membership. | |
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| This is horrible news on 19:02 - Nov 24 with 1840 views | MattinLondon |
| This is horrible news on 18:37 - Nov 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's terrible news, really awful, I can't imagine the terror of it all.
But let's get something straight here -
1/ Why are these people risking their lives to flee a safe country to enter another safe country? It makes no sense at all.
2/ Why aren't the French border force and Navy doing more to stop these crossings and or turn these boats back before they hit deep water and danger - this is not a difficult task should they wish to do so.
............and before I get the TW4TD standard - "You are a racist, nazi scumbag" let me tell you that I have absolutely no problem with immigration, I welcome it and would be happy to take much more than we officially do - but they should be vetted and be accepted from official refugee camps, there should also be an emphasis put on families and children.
There is no place for gangster funded makeshift death trap boats being allowed to make this crossing. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:38]
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It does make sense if English happens to be their second language. |  | | |
| This is horrible news on 19:06 - Nov 24 with 1818 views | mutters |
| This is horrible news on 17:10 - Nov 24 by Mullet |
Stop voting Tory should be the first thing everybody does. Imagine being so insecure that you’re threatened by people in dinghies, yet people seem to love punching down and venerating the corrupt public schoolboys stealing far more from us than a naval fleet of immigrants ever could. |
Seriously, trying to score political points on the back of a tragedy? That's your first thought in response to the original poster? |  |
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| This is horrible news on 19:13 - Nov 24 with 1779 views | Mullet |
| This is horrible news on 19:06 - Nov 24 by mutters |
Seriously, trying to score political points on the back of a tragedy? That's your first thought in response to the original poster? |
No. It was a response to GBs first sentence. Which is obviously understood by the vast majority who actually read both posts.
By all means tell me how the current moral panic about a few immigrants in a boat isn’t fuelled by a media propping up a government who at its softer end, launched go home vans.
I’m more than keen to hear the explanation for the attitude being discussed. | |
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| This is horrible news on 19:14 - Nov 24 with 1769 views | eireblue |
| This is horrible news on 19:06 - Nov 24 by mutters |
Seriously, trying to score political points on the back of a tragedy? That's your first thought in response to the original poster? |
The issue has been getting progressively worse, and the U.K. has been making it harder for refugees, and politicians in power have constantly been conflating refugees/asylum seekers with criminal activity.
It is the same party that has overseen this progression for over ten years.
Why would you not make reference to that in such a discussion. | | | |
| This is horrible news on 19:23 - Nov 24 with 1723 views | Crawfordsboot |
A number of commentators are today suggesting that we need to talk to the French and agree a common approach to the refugee crisis. Individual countries cannot solve it in isolation. Brexit was sold on the premise that we must take back control of our borders - well clearly that was a pile of s**t. On ou own we can do very little. At least in the EU we could hope to agree a common response.
The reaction here is appalling.
Currently there are more people leaving the UK than entering.
We need workers.
These people are desperate to work and to build a future.
They will work and pay tax.
They will invigorate our society. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 19:23]
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| This is horrible news on 19:30 - Nov 24 with 1686 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is horrible news on 19:02 - Nov 24 by MattinLondon |
It does make sense if English happens to be their second language. |
So if you spoke French and not English right now you would risk your life in a boat to travel in all weathers from Dover to Calais? | |
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| This is horrible news on 19:35 - Nov 24 with 1630 views | Guthrum |
| This is horrible news on 18:37 - Nov 24 by Lord_Lucan |
It's terrible news, really awful, I can't imagine the terror of it all.
But let's get something straight here -
1/ Why are these people risking their lives to flee a safe country to enter another safe country? It makes no sense at all.
2/ Why aren't the French border force and Navy doing more to stop these crossings and or turn these boats back before they hit deep water and danger - this is not a difficult task should they wish to do so.
............and before I get the TW4TD standard - "You are a racist, nazi scumbag" let me tell you that I have absolutely no problem with immigration, I welcome it and would be happy to take much more than we officially do - but they should be vetted and be accepted from official refugee camps, there should also be an emphasis put on families and children.
There is no place for gangster funded makeshift death trap boats being allowed to make this crossing. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:38]
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1) France is not that much of a safe country. In terms of populist politics, they are about as immigrant-friendly as the UK. Ethnic integration has lagged behind where we are in Britain (the infamous Paris banlieues are pretty much North African ghettoes). Hence why these people are in camps in the first place, rather than settled accommodation. Yes, technically France may be "safe", but it probably doesn't feel that way to the refugees themselves.
2) There are limits. The traffickers are prepared to put out small boats from secluded beaches, in all weathers and at night. Rubber dinghies, very low in the water, are pretty invisible on radar. So they need to be spotted visually, which is not easy for such small targets, perhaps hidden by waves, trying not to be detected.
France doesn't have that many seagoing patrol and coastguard vessels not based overseas. About nine, plus, presumably, small inshore boats as well. That's not many to cover probably a hundred miles of coastline which is also swarming with other small craft - legitimate leisure boats, fishing vessels and so on.
It isn't that easy a task. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot go unintercepted on this side, too, at least until they land. |  |
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| This is horrible news on 19:36 - Nov 24 with 1606 views | mutters |
| This is horrible news on 19:13 - Nov 24 by Mullet |
No. It was a response to GBs first sentence. Which is obviously understood by the vast majority who actually read both posts.
By all means tell me how the current moral panic about a few immigrants in a boat isn’t fuelled by a media propping up a government who at its softer end, launched go home vans.
I’m more than keen to hear the explanation for the attitude being discussed. |
I note that the OP has edited the posting, so if I have taken something out of context then that might be the situation here.
However as it currently stands, it was the first response, no reference was made to the tradegy just straight into attacking the governmenet. Not a moment to pause to reflect on the loss of life. Seemed a bit callous to me.
However, if I had misread it due to the situation then I will retract it. | |
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| This is horrible news on 19:40 - Nov 24 with 1580 views | MattinLondon |
| This is horrible news on 19:30 - Nov 24 by Lord_Lucan |
So if you spoke French and not English right now you would risk your life in a boat to travel in all weathers from Dover to Calais? |
No, personally I wouldn’t. But then again I’m not fleeing from a war zone and desperately want a better life for myself and my family. | | | |
| This is horrible news on 19:40 - Nov 24 with 1579 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is horrible news on 18:51 - Nov 24 by eireblue |
You sort have answered your own questions.
UK doesn’t provide safe easy legal routes.
UK doesn’t provide an easy way to allow refugees to reunite with family.
Some people have voted for this.
On 1. This has been done before. European Court of Human Rights has found that France has been violating migrants human rights.
“Of particular concern is the risk to unaccompanied children and vulnerable adults such as women and survivors of torture, who are not protected by the French asylum system and are at risk of trafficking and slavery.” |
This from full fact seems to suggest we take more from legal routes than anyone else - unless I’ve read it wrong.
The fact we still take less overall is probably because many aren’t crazy enough or even rich enough to go the nautical route.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-refugees-does-uk-take/ | |
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| This is horrible news on 19:52 - Nov 24 with 1512 views | Mullet |
| This is horrible news on 19:36 - Nov 24 by mutters |
I note that the OP has edited the posting, so if I have taken something out of context then that might be the situation here.
However as it currently stands, it was the first response, no reference was made to the tradegy just straight into attacking the governmenet. Not a moment to pause to reflect on the loss of life. Seemed a bit callous to me.
However, if I had misread it due to the situation then I will retract it. |
The edit had absolutely nothing to do with you completely misreading the thread.
I notice you didn't attempt to contextualise your defence of the current status quo either. Why is that? You were so adamant how wrong I was. | |
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| This is horrible news on 19:56 - Nov 24 with 1493 views | eireblue |
That article doesn’t negate what I said.
The bits that seem pertinent are “ Technically correct, but resettled refugees are only a subset of all refugees a country might take in.”
And in the section titled “ A number of EU countries grant asylum to more refugees than the UK does”
You may have missed
“ Excluding asylum applications where the outcome was unknown, but including those who were successful after appealing an initial rejection, 35% of asylum applicants to the UK were granted asylum or another form of protection in 2017–the lowest level since 2006.”
E.g. on percentage terms, the U.K. was reducing the number being accepted. | | | |
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