| Fans Impatience 05:39 - Nov 29 with 3630 views | pennblue |
I think one of the main issues is we have had so many years of underachievement, that when a new manager walks into the football club these days, it is almost like the fans are behaving like they have been here 3 years already.
If you watch the Paul Cook post match interview, you can't argue with anything he is saying, where one of the main issues we have right now, is inconsistency, both from game to game and during 90 mins.
I think the big question is, how long can it take to build these good habits, this winning culture? another six months? another 2 years? 5 years? I mean you look at clubs like Brentford, Brighton etc.. they have progressively improved season upon season. If we were to accept this view, then really, we should basically be looking for incremental improvement at the end of each season. If that happens, then the club is moving in the right direction.
Top six for me this season is progression. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 06:09 - Nov 29 with 2020 views | Churchman |
I don’t disagree with any of that. Chances of us making the top six are slim though so if we don’t, where is the progression?
Whatever sense he makes in interviews or otherwise, Cook has been awful since he’s been here and is lucky to still be in a job. The big question is where do we go from here? We have a group of players but not a team. Capable of beating both Charlton and Wigan, but struggling against the likes of Crewe. Throwing a bunch of players together doesn’t often work without time and changing a few things, adding and losing a player or two.
How long? My expectation was not necessarily results immediately, but gradual improvement over the season and by May, a team that was challenging for promotion as a bare minimum. A terrible start has really hurt us.
Assuming Cook isn’t binned, my new expectation is that the football club itself continues to rebuild and given most of the players are on three year contracts that a really strong side is emerging. Not much of an ambition, but the rebuild of the club itself after the Evans plague years is for me the most important thing. With that, we will get out of this dross league at some point, with or without Cook. When? No idea. |  | | |
| Fans Impatience on 06:21 - Nov 29 with 2009 views | pennblue |
| Fans Impatience on 06:09 - Nov 29 by Churchman |
I don’t disagree with any of that. Chances of us making the top six are slim though so if we don’t, where is the progression?
Whatever sense he makes in interviews or otherwise, Cook has been awful since he’s been here and is lucky to still be in a job. The big question is where do we go from here? We have a group of players but not a team. Capable of beating both Charlton and Wigan, but struggling against the likes of Crewe. Throwing a bunch of players together doesn’t often work without time and changing a few things, adding and losing a player or two.
How long? My expectation was not necessarily results immediately, but gradual improvement over the season and by May, a team that was challenging for promotion as a bare minimum. A terrible start has really hurt us.
Assuming Cook isn’t binned, my new expectation is that the football club itself continues to rebuild and given most of the players are on three year contracts that a really strong side is emerging. Not much of an ambition, but the rebuild of the club itself after the Evans plague years is for me the most important thing. With that, we will get out of this dross league at some point, with or without Cook. When? No idea. |
I think if we don't make Top Six, then I would agree, there has been no progression, or not enough at least.
I still think we will recruit well in January, and we will see the team move up another level with those new additions. Achieving a level of consistency is not just about tactics and formations, it is having a set of players you can rely on to perform theirs jobs well. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 06:28 - Nov 29 with 1999 views | Keaneish |
| Fans Impatience on 06:09 - Nov 29 by Churchman |
I don’t disagree with any of that. Chances of us making the top six are slim though so if we don’t, where is the progression?
Whatever sense he makes in interviews or otherwise, Cook has been awful since he’s been here and is lucky to still be in a job. The big question is where do we go from here? We have a group of players but not a team. Capable of beating both Charlton and Wigan, but struggling against the likes of Crewe. Throwing a bunch of players together doesn’t often work without time and changing a few things, adding and losing a player or two.
How long? My expectation was not necessarily results immediately, but gradual improvement over the season and by May, a team that was challenging for promotion as a bare minimum. A terrible start has really hurt us.
Assuming Cook isn’t binned, my new expectation is that the football club itself continues to rebuild and given most of the players are on three year contracts that a really strong side is emerging. Not much of an ambition, but the rebuild of the club itself after the Evans plague years is for me the most important thing. With that, we will get out of this dross league at some point, with or without Cook. When? No idea. |
I find the idea that we can’t make the top six absurd given it’s the end of November and we’re only 7 pts off. 7 pts in this league is a good week versus a bad week. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 06:43 - Nov 29 with 1935 views | Churchman |
| Fans Impatience on 06:21 - Nov 29 by pennblue |
I think if we don't make Top Six, then I would agree, there has been no progression, or not enough at least.
I still think we will recruit well in January, and we will see the team move up another level with those new additions. Achieving a level of consistency is not just about tactics and formations, it is having a set of players you can rely on to perform theirs jobs well. |
I agree with that. It depends on who is available of course. I guess it’s about evolving a team now rather than throwing one together, which was of course what was done during the summer.
Slightly left field, but I think the moving on of a few of the Lambert era players (Norwood and co) might help a bit too, I can’t see how having players around who are surplus to requirements can be helpful to anyone. | | | |
| Fans Impatience on 06:56 - Nov 29 with 1880 views | pennblue |
| Fans Impatience on 06:43 - Nov 29 by Churchman |
I agree with that. It depends on who is available of course. I guess it’s about evolving a team now rather than throwing one together, which was of course what was done during the summer.
Slightly left field, but I think the moving on of a few of the Lambert era players (Norwood and co) might help a bit too, I can’t see how having players around who are surplus to requirements can be helpful to anyone. |
Yes I think there are a few more players to move on in January. It's time to move out players that have been at the club > 1 year and are still not cutting it. The players need to know there is a baseline now at the club, and if you can't reach the right level, you will be out the door.
Left back is a huge position we need to sort out in January. It is a real shame Coulson has been injured, as he is probably 'an answer' to that problem. But I do feel Penney has been very effective going forward and we look far stronger down that left hand side with him in the team. We seem to have just shelved him due to defensive mistakes, but why not try him on the left wing, he has a great left foot on him. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:00 - Nov 29 with 1862 views | PioneerBlue |
Absolutely agree with you | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:08 - Nov 29 with 1829 views | Mullet |
You couldn’t have named two worse clubs to make your point. Both have made that progress by getting rid of managers as soon as they go backwards, all their success is built off field in the structure.
If anything this forgetting Cook was here last season, and blew a decent chance of the playoffs before his “demolition man” stuff is more remarkable. He chose to rip the squad up and has been backed more than most, perhaps anyone relative to our level ever, and hasn’t improved things during his tenure.
The idea we are impatient as a fan base is laughable. Even in ITFC terms we see people learning g their lesson from last time they got entitled, cheering relegation and rather than behaving as you suggest are overly forgiving of a new man.
Even Hurst had his devotees far too long and there are people still more interested in the fortunes of Cook over club. You can’t change human psychology in that instance. It’s weird that a win attracted boos, but it’s also rather telling isn’t it as to just how badly this season has gone?
The real problem is how long we let this fester and hope for recovery or do we make a change. Cook is starting to look and sound like a man who knows which way the wind is blowing. He really has to produce some minor miracles just to deserve a chance before we waste the window. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:22 - Nov 29 with 1772 views | homer_123 |
| Fans Impatience on 06:21 - Nov 29 by pennblue |
I think if we don't make Top Six, then I would agree, there has been no progression, or not enough at least.
I still think we will recruit well in January, and we will see the team move up another level with those new additions. Achieving a level of consistency is not just about tactics and formations, it is having a set of players you can rely on to perform theirs jobs well. |
Recruit in January.
You might be right but to be perfectly honest with you, the current squad is easily good enough for this division. I'm not convinced signing one or two new players will do the trick - the issues remain the same since Cook joined.
We struggle with any kind of consistency, we have a soft underbelly. We lack cohesion, I'm still not sure 'how' he is wanting us to play.
Will these be fixed by a new player?
Who in our current squad would you think needs replacing? At a push Nsiala and possibly Donacien but does that solve the above issues? We might talk about a left back, given Coulson's injury issues? |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:29 - Nov 29 with 1750 views | Bobbychase |
I've mentioned this in other threads but we also have to accept there is unfortunately a vocal minority in our support who are happiest when complaining. And they should not be indulged because as soon as they get a manager sacked, they pipe down for a bit then get on the back of the new man.
We will not make progress as a club if we hire and fire like it's a computer game. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:29 - Nov 29 with 1739 views | pennblue |
| Fans Impatience on 07:08 - Nov 29 by Mullet |
You couldn’t have named two worse clubs to make your point. Both have made that progress by getting rid of managers as soon as they go backwards, all their success is built off field in the structure.
If anything this forgetting Cook was here last season, and blew a decent chance of the playoffs before his “demolition man” stuff is more remarkable. He chose to rip the squad up and has been backed more than most, perhaps anyone relative to our level ever, and hasn’t improved things during his tenure.
The idea we are impatient as a fan base is laughable. Even in ITFC terms we see people learning g their lesson from last time they got entitled, cheering relegation and rather than behaving as you suggest are overly forgiving of a new man.
Even Hurst had his devotees far too long and there are people still more interested in the fortunes of Cook over club. You can’t change human psychology in that instance. It’s weird that a win attracted boos, but it’s also rather telling isn’t it as to just how badly this season has gone?
The real problem is how long we let this fester and hope for recovery or do we make a change. Cook is starting to look and sound like a man who knows which way the wind is blowing. He really has to produce some minor miracles just to deserve a chance before we waste the window. |
The managers will always be transient, whether they are here for six months or twenty years. My point is that those clubs did not get there in six months.
I don't think anyone here is a Cook 'devotee'. It really comes down to how long are you prepared to give a manager to get it right.
I think, if in January, we strengthen some of the weaker links, it will make a huge difference. I don't think we are as far off as you may think. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:31 - Nov 29 with 1731 views | Mullet |
| Fans Impatience on 07:29 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
I've mentioned this in other threads but we also have to accept there is unfortunately a vocal minority in our support who are happiest when complaining. And they should not be indulged because as soon as they get a manager sacked, they pipe down for a bit then get on the back of the new man.
We will not make progress as a club if we hire and fire like it's a computer game. |
What has Cook done here for you that means people should shut up and continue to applaud him? | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:36 - Nov 29 with 1706 views | Mullet |
| Fans Impatience on 07:29 - Nov 29 by pennblue |
The managers will always be transient, whether they are here for six months or twenty years. My point is that those clubs did not get there in six months.
I don't think anyone here is a Cook 'devotee'. It really comes down to how long are you prepared to give a manager to get it right.
I think, if in January, we strengthen some of the weaker links, it will make a huge difference. I don't think we are as far off as you may think. |
I’ve looked at the table, we definitely are. That’s after a much needed win too.
If managers are indeed transient and you want winning habits, why keep one who can’t produce them with so much free rein and backing? You keep undermining your own argument. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:37 - Nov 29 with 1703 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 07:31 - Nov 29 by Mullet |
What has Cook done here for you that means people should shut up and continue to applaud him? |
Assembled the best squad we've had in years, in conjunction with the owners and Ashton.
And turned us from a team that couldn't score more than one in a game last season - and sometimes couldn't score or create chances at all - to one of the top scoring sides in the division. Only MK Dons have scored more than us and we have scored more than Sunderland, Wigan, Rotherham, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday. We are on course to match last season's entire goals tally before the end of the year. Scoring goals is quite important in football.
We're still a work in progress and I had hoped we would be further ahead than we are. I'm also fed up to the back teeth of people whose solution to every issue is to sack the manager and start again. We got handed a golden ticket in the summer with the Gamechanger lot arriving. Maybe they've earned the right for us to be patient? Just a thought. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:37 - Nov 29 with 1692 views | Herbivore |
| Fans Impatience on 06:28 - Nov 29 by Keaneish |
I find the idea that we can’t make the top six absurd given it’s the end of November and we’re only 7 pts off. 7 pts in this league is a good week versus a bad week. |
We need to sustain just shy of 2 points per game for the rest of the season to make the play offs. If you'd seen much of us this season you'd understand why fans are concerned that the play offs are looking a tough ask at this point. We've just played the best and the worst side in the league at home a few days apart; we got played off the park by the best side and ran very close by the bottom side. We aren't good enough to put together the form we need to at this point in time. And Cook is already reverting back to blaming the players again, this time with a squad that he signed for big bucks for this level. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:37 - Nov 29 with 1704 views | homer_123 |
| Fans Impatience on 07:29 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
I've mentioned this in other threads but we also have to accept there is unfortunately a vocal minority in our support who are happiest when complaining. And they should not be indulged because as soon as they get a manager sacked, they pipe down for a bit then get on the back of the new man.
We will not make progress as a club if we hire and fire like it's a computer game. |
It's interesting though isn't it.
If we look at the Club objectively:
Roy Keane - 624 days
Paul Jewell - 650 days
Mick McCarthy - 1986 days
Paul Hurst - 148 days
Paul Lambert - 855 days
Paul Cook - 270 days
Hurst is the standout as being the shortest - we certainly have never 'hired and fired' - Magilton and Royle were over 1,000 days each as well.
However, for all that period, has that approach provided success? I'm not advocating hiring and firing but I think I would be right that many of the above got way, way more time than they would have at other clubs and still didn't/ couldn't deliver.
I like Cook, as a person he seems a really good fit for the Club but on the evidence we are seeing with our own eyes, was are Lambert levels since he joined, in fact in terms of points return it might be even less than Lambert?
I want him to succeed but, taking yesterdays match there is a lot there that we have seen from Town under Hurst, Lambert and Cook that hasn't been addressed.
Do we continue to do what Town have always done with their managers and stick with Cook - if we do, evidence suggests, so far, that we'll struggle to get out of this division.
The frustration is that, for me, this squad should easily be good enough to be in and around the top 2 - but we are so far from being that team it's amazing. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:42 - Nov 29 with 1679 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 07:37 - Nov 29 by homer_123 |
It's interesting though isn't it.
If we look at the Club objectively:
Roy Keane - 624 days
Paul Jewell - 650 days
Mick McCarthy - 1986 days
Paul Hurst - 148 days
Paul Lambert - 855 days
Paul Cook - 270 days
Hurst is the standout as being the shortest - we certainly have never 'hired and fired' - Magilton and Royle were over 1,000 days each as well.
However, for all that period, has that approach provided success? I'm not advocating hiring and firing but I think I would be right that many of the above got way, way more time than they would have at other clubs and still didn't/ couldn't deliver.
I like Cook, as a person he seems a really good fit for the Club but on the evidence we are seeing with our own eyes, was are Lambert levels since he joined, in fact in terms of points return it might be even less than Lambert?
I want him to succeed but, taking yesterdays match there is a lot there that we have seen from Town under Hurst, Lambert and Cook that hasn't been addressed.
Do we continue to do what Town have always done with their managers and stick with Cook - if we do, evidence suggests, so far, that we'll struggle to get out of this division.
The frustration is that, for me, this squad should easily be good enough to be in and around the top 2 - but we are so far from being that team it's amazing. |
Fair enough, but I'm looking at the period since Mick left. We went from having the same manager for several seasons to getting rid of Hurst quickly after he had implemented a massive overhaul, then Lambert after two seasons when he had also tried to rip things up and start again and now people want Cook out too after we brought in 19 new players in the summer. If we change again another manager will want his own players too. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:43 - Nov 29 with 1670 views | Herbivore |
| Fans Impatience on 07:37 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
Assembled the best squad we've had in years, in conjunction with the owners and Ashton.
And turned us from a team that couldn't score more than one in a game last season - and sometimes couldn't score or create chances at all - to one of the top scoring sides in the division. Only MK Dons have scored more than us and we have scored more than Sunderland, Wigan, Rotherham, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday. We are on course to match last season's entire goals tally before the end of the year. Scoring goals is quite important in football.
We're still a work in progress and I had hoped we would be further ahead than we are. I'm also fed up to the back teeth of people whose solution to every issue is to sack the manager and start again. We got handed a golden ticket in the summer with the Gamechanger lot arriving. Maybe they've earned the right for us to be patient? Just a thought. |
Cook has assembled the best squad we've had in years and yet we're in the lowest position we've been as a club at this stage of the season in over half a century. He's massively underachieving with the resources at his disposal, just as he did last season. It's been 9 months of failure from him so far. He has to show something soon to suggest that he is actually capable of taking us forward. The last two games the performances have been poor at a time when we should be getting better. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:43 - Nov 29 with 1676 views | Mullet |
| Fans Impatience on 07:37 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
Assembled the best squad we've had in years, in conjunction with the owners and Ashton.
And turned us from a team that couldn't score more than one in a game last season - and sometimes couldn't score or create chances at all - to one of the top scoring sides in the division. Only MK Dons have scored more than us and we have scored more than Sunderland, Wigan, Rotherham, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday. We are on course to match last season's entire goals tally before the end of the year. Scoring goals is quite important in football.
We're still a work in progress and I had hoped we would be further ahead than we are. I'm also fed up to the back teeth of people whose solution to every issue is to sack the manager and start again. We got handed a golden ticket in the summer with the Gamechanger lot arriving. Maybe they've earned the right for us to be patient? Just a thought. |
Yet we find ourselves where relative to that prior team? You don’t need to patronise with the goals scored stuff, but you seem to neglect the goals against and how that’s impacted the runs of wins and points haul.
All those teams you list are above us by some way, so if those things are as is important as you say, then hadn’t he failed even by that most generous of appraisals?
He wasn’t their appointment and they have been more than generous with him, it wouldn’t be perverse or out of hand to move him on weeks ago let alone now. Gamechanger did not come here to sit in Marcus Evans shadow. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:43 - Nov 29 with 1672 views | homer_123 |
| Fans Impatience on 07:42 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
Fair enough, but I'm looking at the period since Mick left. We went from having the same manager for several seasons to getting rid of Hurst quickly after he had implemented a massive overhaul, then Lambert after two seasons when he had also tried to rip things up and start again and now people want Cook out too after we brought in 19 new players in the summer. If we change again another manager will want his own players too. |
"...If we change again another manager will want his own players too."
I have to disagree here - the squad we have includes players that I think quite a few managers would be looking to keep and utilise. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:46 - Nov 29 with 1644 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 07:43 - Nov 29 by Mullet |
Yet we find ourselves where relative to that prior team? You don’t need to patronise with the goals scored stuff, but you seem to neglect the goals against and how that’s impacted the runs of wins and points haul.
All those teams you list are above us by some way, so if those things are as is important as you say, then hadn’t he failed even by that most generous of appraisals?
He wasn’t their appointment and they have been more than generous with him, it wouldn’t be perverse or out of hand to move him on weeks ago let alone now. Gamechanger did not come here to sit in Marcus Evans shadow. |
I was asked how Cook has progressed us. He has turned us into a team who are (mostly) very enjoyable to watch and score plenty of goals. We complained for years about the lack of entertainment. Now we have it.
We haven't got the results I would have wanted and our defensive deficiencies are frustrating but the idea he hasn't taken the team forward is a nonsense to me. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:49 - Nov 29 with 1621 views | Herbivore |
| Fans Impatience on 07:46 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
I was asked how Cook has progressed us. He has turned us into a team who are (mostly) very enjoyable to watch and score plenty of goals. We complained for years about the lack of entertainment. Now we have it.
We haven't got the results I would have wanted and our defensive deficiencies are frustrating but the idea he hasn't taken the team forward is a nonsense to me. |
I mean, he hasn't taken the team forward. We're lower in the league now than when he came in. We've accrued fewer points per game under him than we managed under Lambert. That we've dished out three big wins this season doesn't change that. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:54 - Nov 29 with 1610 views | Mullet |
| Fans Impatience on 07:46 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
I was asked how Cook has progressed us. He has turned us into a team who are (mostly) very enjoyable to watch and score plenty of goals. We complained for years about the lack of entertainment. Now we have it.
We haven't got the results I would have wanted and our defensive deficiencies are frustrating but the idea he hasn't taken the team forward is a nonsense to me. |
But you seem to be using goals scored as the metric and a very subjective “more enjoyable” scale, when the rest of the world uses the league table etc.
I’m sure every manager has produced enjoyable games, but has this season as a whole been more enjoyable? I’m not sure the odd wonderful performance is enough when it’s cancelled out by the Bolton, Rotherham and various late concessions of points too for the fan base.
You can’t really be a work in progress and the best squad ever/in the division/ since August or whatever as we head into December and not then look at the person failing to produce with them. After he blamed the players last season too from a position of strength. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:54 - Nov 29 with 1603 views | textbackup |
| Fans Impatience on 06:28 - Nov 29 by Keaneish |
I find the idea that we can’t make the top six absurd given it’s the end of November and we’re only 7 pts off. 7 pts in this league is a good week versus a bad week. |
JD talking on radio suffolk pre match was great, when brenner asked him if the top 2 had gone his reply of "arent we still in november?!"
as long as the players believe anything is possible we should be onboard really too. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:55 - Nov 29 with 1597 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 07:49 - Nov 29 by Herbivore |
I mean, he hasn't taken the team forward. We're lower in the league now than when he came in. We've accrued fewer points per game under him than we managed under Lambert. That we've dished out three big wins this season doesn't change that. |
You see no difference between Lambert's side of last season and this one? No difference at all? We're a worse team now? We've gone backwards in squad quality? | |
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| Fans Impatience on 07:58 - Nov 29 with 1587 views | Steve_M |
One of the main reasons fans are impatient is because this is the fourth successive season of failure in a row; the third one where the first team manager has consistently failed to produce team performances out of the players available to him.
Yes, we are inconsistent but that's up to Cook to solve. If, after 20 matches this season we look less coherent than we did in August then the strange behaviour isn't from those thinking that the level of performances isn't good enough. We're mid-table in the third division with a budget that is almost certainly one of the two largest.
I think most fans could look past a slow start if there were signs of any momentum building, if we were winning matches regularly. We're not though, Cook has only managed successive league wins once since he's been here. There's no way we can close the gap to the top six unless that changes.
Brentford and Brighton put in a structure that works without the manager, one where a change does not impact the direction of the club. That's clearly the direction we are going in off the pitch so, in that regard, there's even less reason to cling to Cook as being a necessary part of any success we might have. |  |
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