| Fans Impatience 05:39 - Nov 29 with 4080 views | pennblue |
I think one of the main issues is we have had so many years of underachievement, that when a new manager walks into the football club these days, it is almost like the fans are behaving like they have been here 3 years already.
If you watch the Paul Cook post match interview, you can't argue with anything he is saying, where one of the main issues we have right now, is inconsistency, both from game to game and during 90 mins.
I think the big question is, how long can it take to build these good habits, this winning culture? another six months? another 2 years? 5 years? I mean you look at clubs like Brentford, Brighton etc.. they have progressively improved season upon season. If we were to accept this view, then really, we should basically be looking for incremental improvement at the end of each season. If that happens, then the club is moving in the right direction.
Top six for me this season is progression. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:05 - Nov 29 with 1403 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 07:54 - Nov 29 by Mullet |
But you seem to be using goals scored as the metric and a very subjective “more enjoyable” scale, when the rest of the world uses the league table etc.
I’m sure every manager has produced enjoyable games, but has this season as a whole been more enjoyable? I’m not sure the odd wonderful performance is enough when it’s cancelled out by the Bolton, Rotherham and various late concessions of points too for the fan base.
You can’t really be a work in progress and the best squad ever/in the division/ since August or whatever as we head into December and not then look at the person failing to produce with them. After he blamed the players last season too from a position of strength. |
People who want Cook out don't have a monopoly on frustration by the way. I want us to win every game we play and I hate the way the league table looks currently.
But the people who boo a win, who say we are worse than we were under Lambert and the football is no better to watch need to accept there is a different outlook. Cook hasn't "lost the crowd" as someone stated elsewhere on here. He's lost some of them. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:05 - Nov 29 with 1404 views | Herbivore |
| Fans Impatience on 07:55 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
You see no difference between Lambert's side of last season and this one? No difference at all? We're a worse team now? We've gone backwards in squad quality? |
We've got fewer points. If the squad is that much better - and I agree it is, on paper - that merely highlights how poorly Cook is doing in getting them performing. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:07 - Nov 29 with 1399 views | homer_123 |
| Fans Impatience on 07:55 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
You see no difference between Lambert's side of last season and this one? No difference at all? We're a worse team now? We've gone backwards in squad quality? |
"We've gone backwards in squad quality?"
Absolutely not but doesn't that actually make things for Cook worse? He's got a better squad, better resources at his disposal yet his return is worse!
I'd say we are capable of playing more pleasing football and we do score more goals but we actually have the same issues under Cook as Lambert. We switch off, we are soft, we are prone to mistakes.
So, yes, in some measurements we have improved but in the most significant and important measures we haven't. [Post edited 29 Nov 2021 8:08]
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| Fans Impatience on 08:09 - Nov 29 with 1391 views | Mullet |
| Fans Impatience on 08:05 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
People who want Cook out don't have a monopoly on frustration by the way. I want us to win every game we play and I hate the way the league table looks currently.
But the people who boo a win, who say we are worse than we were under Lambert and the football is no better to watch need to accept there is a different outlook. Cook hasn't "lost the crowd" as someone stated elsewhere on here. He's lost some of them. |
I agree about the booing etc but how is your approach any different to theirs? You seem to be doing the same things from the opposite conclusions.
I’m baffled you’d talk about frustrations after lauding so much about Cook and his team. It seems a very odd position rooted in some sort moral superiority towards the man, at the expense of the club. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:11 - Nov 29 with 1384 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 08:09 - Nov 29 by Mullet |
I agree about the booing etc but how is your approach any different to theirs? You seem to be doing the same things from the opposite conclusions.
I’m baffled you’d talk about frustrations after lauding so much about Cook and his team. It seems a very odd position rooted in some sort moral superiority towards the man, at the expense of the club. |
Why is it baffling that someone can be frustrated but not want the manager sacked? They're not mutually exclusive positions. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:16 - Nov 29 with 1374 views | textbackup |
| Fans Impatience on 08:05 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
People who want Cook out don't have a monopoly on frustration by the way. I want us to win every game we play and I hate the way the league table looks currently.
But the people who boo a win, who say we are worse than we were under Lambert and the football is no better to watch need to accept there is a different outlook. Cook hasn't "lost the crowd" as someone stated elsewhere on here. He's lost some of them. |
he's lost the ones that will be heard saying "i'd rather watch MM football over this" and they'll have been the same ones at brentford calling MM a nonce.
im not hugely impressed of late, and starting to worry, but i'm sticking by to see how we look at the end of dec, massive month for PC and his team |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:18 - Nov 29 with 1368 views | Mullet |
| Fans Impatience on 08:11 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
Why is it baffling that someone can be frustrated but not want the manager sacked? They're not mutually exclusive positions. |
Because you seem to see that as one of only two positions, and that opposing you is people wanting Cook sacked as being more important than wanting ITFC to do the bare minimum.
I don’t really see how we can persevere with someone who has only managed to fail consistently, he has to change that with a run of wins and hasn’t managed that at all here. Surely it’s reasonable to accept that and that perhaps “better football” is sparse amongst the terrible stuff he’s produced overall. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:20 - Nov 29 with 1361 views | Bobbychase |
| Fans Impatience on 08:16 - Nov 29 by textbackup |
he's lost the ones that will be heard saying "i'd rather watch MM football over this" and they'll have been the same ones at brentford calling MM a nonce.
im not hugely impressed of late, and starting to worry, but i'm sticking by to see how we look at the end of dec, massive month for PC and his team |
That's partly my point. Some of the usual offenders around me yesterday wanted MM out, to the point they would refuse to celebrate winning goals in some games because it meant he could hang on. They went after Hurst, Lambert and now they're after Cook. If they get their way, they won't suddenly start supporting the team without agenda, they'll wait for reasons to hate the new guy. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:21 - Nov 29 with 1356 views | pennblue |
| Fans Impatience on 07:36 - Nov 29 by Mullet |
I’ve looked at the table, we definitely are. That’s after a much needed win too.
If managers are indeed transient and you want winning habits, why keep one who can’t produce them with so much free rein and backing? You keep undermining your own argument. |
I don't think he has had enough time yet, that is my view. I also think to strengthen in a couple of areas can have a massive difference. If you have weaknesses in your team, the opposition will exploit it. The amount of confidence they get from this, cannot be under estimated. Football is all about the dynamic of the game, and if you can stop a team getting any momentum, they soon get frustrated and heads drop. You give them a ray of hope, you have a completely different game on your hands.
So I do think if we strengthen (in defence) it will make a huge difference. It is not our only issue of course, but I don't know why people think these issues won't be resolved, one way or another.
New manager would want new playing style, would want new players. Hitting the reset button again so quickly, it makes no sense.
I think we have to get behind the manager and the team this season, good or bad, up or down, and we can judge at the end of the season. If we are still a scared, misfiring team at the end of the season, I would agree entirely with you, we should make a change. But I think you have to give a manager a full season at it (with his own team), and at least two transfer windows.
The reason I 'write off' last season is that those players were not his players, and they were not able to play the style he wants to play. So I just don't think you can judge him on last season. You can say he did not manage to get anything out of last seasons team, but for me, that is not really that relevant. What he does this season with his team, playing his style is far more relevant. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:21 - Nov 29 with 1357 views | textbackup |
| Fans Impatience on 08:20 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
That's partly my point. Some of the usual offenders around me yesterday wanted MM out, to the point they would refuse to celebrate winning goals in some games because it meant he could hang on. They went after Hurst, Lambert and now they're after Cook. If they get their way, they won't suddenly start supporting the team without agenda, they'll wait for reasons to hate the new guy. |
its the same people, time after time.
and they will be the ones that want burley and dyer to take over until the end of the season. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:33 - Nov 29 with 1324 views | wkj |
My impatience is simply this - I don't see overall improvement. There are many things that I feel Cook does better than Lambert - but the truth is that Lambert has out performed Cook in the old points department.
I want to see this club improve its stature in the game and we're not really showing signs of doing much in that regard. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 08:38 - Nov 29 with 1316 views | Churchman |
| Fans Impatience on 08:16 - Nov 29 by textbackup |
he's lost the ones that will be heard saying "i'd rather watch MM football over this" and they'll have been the same ones at brentford calling MM a nonce.
im not hugely impressed of late, and starting to worry, but i'm sticking by to see how we look at the end of dec, massive month for PC and his team |
I’d be very interested to know how CEO, Chairman and the owners see things. Their ambition can hardly be mid table, but that looks to be where we are heading.
The club has undergone so much change in the past nine months, is it right to go through another manager and all that goes with it? On the other side of it, Cook has been undeniably poor. Do we stick with it and hope a player or two in January completes the team or cut our losses, be decisive and ditch him?
In the cold light of day, I’m in two minds to be honest. Here we sit wallowing deservedly in mid table yet it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if we went out and smashed Charlton/Wigan or got taken apart ourselves. By comparison,last season, the home game beatings we took mid season were literally forgone conclusions.
I agree with you that perhaps seeing where we are at the end of Dec is the way forward for now. |  | | |
| Fans Impatience on 08:58 - Nov 29 with 1289 views | 3_5_2 |
agree with that apart from the top 6 bit
I hope you are right but cant see us going on the kind of run we will need |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 09:10 - Nov 29 with 1254 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
If you look at Cooks history it's usually end season where it all clicks.
I still think managers need and deserve 2 years unless relation is clearly on the cards. It takes time and this expectation of instant success is just fanciful.
I'm just pleased to a sensible post on the matter at last |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 09:11 - Nov 29 with 1253 views | thebooks |
I really couldn’t disagree more with this – it’s the latest iteration of the low expectations Town fans have.
The aim is very simple for ITFC at the moment. We have to get promoted from the 3rd tier. Sure, build some form of “culture” or whatever, but it is absurd to argue that we can’t get promoted automatically with this squad, or that being unhappy in the 3rd tier is somehow being impatient.
Apart from that, I guess getting in the play-offs is, technically speaking, an improvement on where Paul Cook had us last season, but not really on where Lambert and Gill had us when he took over. But what an absurdly low bar — and that’s before you take into account he’s bought 19 new players.
Brentford and Brighton have been top level Championship/PL teams for years. They didn’t mess around in League One. |  | | |
| Fans Impatience on 09:16 - Nov 29 with 1242 views | mattrolow |
| Fans Impatience on 07:46 - Nov 29 by Bobbychase |
I was asked how Cook has progressed us. He has turned us into a team who are (mostly) very enjoyable to watch and score plenty of goals. We complained for years about the lack of entertainment. Now we have it.
We haven't got the results I would have wanted and our defensive deficiencies are frustrating but the idea he hasn't taken the team forward is a nonsense to me. |
Have to agree.
Lets not forget that Mick was driven out of this club, not solely based on results, but because of the style of football and wanting something entertaining to watch.
This is the brief Cook has been given, along with going up. To build a culture of attractive and exciting football and winning takes time.
For me, Cook is the right man. I have been around clubs he has managed in the past and there are a lot of parallels to be seen in terms of the style of play and the squad he builds. They were successful teams.
It feels far off at points, but we've got it right at one end of the pitch. Individual errors are costing us at the back.
We were all happy to forgive him/the team for the first 10 games of the season. We can't now turn that back on them, without those games we would be right up there in the play-off mix. | | | |
| Fans Impatience on 09:17 - Nov 29 with 1241 views | Radlett_blue |
Yes, you're probably right, but Town are currently 11th in the table and aren't showing any signs that is a false position. If Town don't make the play offs this season, this is a poor return from Cook & the investment he has had & we're entitled to question if he is the right man. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 09:18 - Nov 29 with 1233 views | itfcjoe |
| Fans Impatience on 09:16 - Nov 29 by mattrolow |
Have to agree.
Lets not forget that Mick was driven out of this club, not solely based on results, but because of the style of football and wanting something entertaining to watch.
This is the brief Cook has been given, along with going up. To build a culture of attractive and exciting football and winning takes time.
For me, Cook is the right man. I have been around clubs he has managed in the past and there are a lot of parallels to be seen in terms of the style of play and the squad he builds. They were successful teams.
It feels far off at points, but we've got it right at one end of the pitch. Individual errors are costing us at the back.
We were all happy to forgive him/the team for the first 10 games of the season. We can't now turn that back on them, without those games we would be right up there in the play-off mix. |
It's not individual errors at the back, it's a lack of team structure there |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 09:34 - Nov 29 with 1210 views | timothyeo |
This thread, started by you, is evidence that our fans aren't impatient at all, it's much more the other direction. We're FAR too patient.
Look at West Ham fans. Look at Wolves fans. Heck, look at Brighton fans at the weekend - they boo'd a 0-0 draw against Leeds where they were absolutely dominant and sit 8th in the Premier League.
Take a look at the fans of pretty much every other club and the changeover of managers etc as a result.
How many examples are there of similarly sized clubs under-achieving to the same degree as us for the same period of time? Or have all the other clubs actually benefitted from fans actually demanding things to be better?
When things go bad here, we just stop making noise, the atmosphere drops, but no-one really says anything past a few grumbles. Not really.
Cook has no right to even begin to question the fans - 90% of them gave him a completely free pass last season for performing worse than Lambert who many of the same 90% criticised as one of our worst ever managers.
Well, newsflash. He's still underperforming Lambert. With a significantly better squad - which I attribute mostly to our new football structure as opposed to Cook himself.
Can you imagine if our supporters actually demanded better from this football club? Maybe after the past 10 years especially, we could perhaps give that a go? | | | |
| Fans Impatience on 09:51 - Nov 29 with 1186 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Fans Impatience on 09:34 - Nov 29 by timothyeo |
This thread, started by you, is evidence that our fans aren't impatient at all, it's much more the other direction. We're FAR too patient.
Look at West Ham fans. Look at Wolves fans. Heck, look at Brighton fans at the weekend - they boo'd a 0-0 draw against Leeds where they were absolutely dominant and sit 8th in the Premier League.
Take a look at the fans of pretty much every other club and the changeover of managers etc as a result.
How many examples are there of similarly sized clubs under-achieving to the same degree as us for the same period of time? Or have all the other clubs actually benefitted from fans actually demanding things to be better?
When things go bad here, we just stop making noise, the atmosphere drops, but no-one really says anything past a few grumbles. Not really.
Cook has no right to even begin to question the fans - 90% of them gave him a completely free pass last season for performing worse than Lambert who many of the same 90% criticised as one of our worst ever managers.
Well, newsflash. He's still underperforming Lambert. With a significantly better squad - which I attribute mostly to our new football structure as opposed to Cook himself.
Can you imagine if our supporters actually demanded better from this football club? Maybe after the past 10 years especially, we could perhaps give that a go? |
It's fine to demand and expect better but it's unrealistic to expect that to happen instantly. Impending a new culture to new players takes time but we can see evidence of it happening, Style of play etc.
As for using Brighton fans booing a nil nil at tbe weekend well that doesn't make it right and those fans are a prime example of what is wrong with football today. I wouldn't blame Potter for walking after that. If Brighton fans all jumped off a cliff would do that too? (That last bit was deliberately obtuse to make point I shod say, given how easily context gets lost on here) | |
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| Fans Impatience on 09:55 - Nov 29 with 1182 views | Herbivore |
| Fans Impatience on 09:51 - Nov 29 by BlueandTruesince82 |
It's fine to demand and expect better but it's unrealistic to expect that to happen instantly. Impending a new culture to new players takes time but we can see evidence of it happening, Style of play etc.
As for using Brighton fans booing a nil nil at tbe weekend well that doesn't make it right and those fans are a prime example of what is wrong with football today. I wouldn't blame Potter for walking after that. If Brighton fans all jumped off a cliff would do that too? (That last bit was deliberately obtuse to make point I shod say, given how easily context gets lost on here) |
I don't see much evidence that we're developing a style of play. I'm seeing really quite limited progress, unfortunately. This was the time of the season we were meant to be hitting our stride, instead we're stumbling along wondering if our season will ever catch light. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 10:00 - Nov 29 with 1165 views | timothyeo |
| Fans Impatience on 09:51 - Nov 29 by BlueandTruesince82 |
It's fine to demand and expect better but it's unrealistic to expect that to happen instantly. Impending a new culture to new players takes time but we can see evidence of it happening, Style of play etc.
As for using Brighton fans booing a nil nil at tbe weekend well that doesn't make it right and those fans are a prime example of what is wrong with football today. I wouldn't blame Potter for walking after that. If Brighton fans all jumped off a cliff would do that too? (That last bit was deliberately obtuse to make point I shod say, given how easily context gets lost on here) |
I agree with the Brighton fans. It's ridiculous.
But it serves as an example - how patient our fanbase is comparatively. They get boo'd when they're significantly over-achieving.
Plenty on here want to see Cook given significantly more time for underachieving.
We aren't an impatient fan base.
I guess the difference is I really can't see the progression you seem to be able to. And the results tend to support me on that - because regardless of style of play this squad should be doing significantly better than they are. | | | |
| Fans Impatience on 10:10 - Nov 29 with 1151 views | NthQldITFC |
There will never be consensus on this, and there's deeply engrained emotional response and entrenched positions on both sides unfortunately.
I hanker for the old days, meself.
The only cure for it will be success, but that becomes harder for players and management under almost instant and constant pressure. |  |
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| Fans Impatience on 10:13 - Nov 29 with 1139 views | Herbivore |
| Fans Impatience on 10:10 - Nov 29 by NthQldITFC |
There will never be consensus on this, and there's deeply engrained emotional response and entrenched positions on both sides unfortunately.
I hanker for the old days, meself.
The only cure for it will be success, but that becomes harder for players and management under almost instant and constant pressure. |
I fairness the murmurs of discontent from within the ground have only started recently, the team and manager have been well backed until now. I don't think they can really have too many complaints about backing from the fans. I don't agree with booing for what it's worth, but a few boos is hardly extreme given how the season has panned out thus far. | |
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| Fans Impatience on 10:26 - Nov 29 with 1107 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Fans Impatience on 10:00 - Nov 29 by timothyeo |
I agree with the Brighton fans. It's ridiculous.
But it serves as an example - how patient our fanbase is comparatively. They get boo'd when they're significantly over-achieving.
Plenty on here want to see Cook given significantly more time for underachieving.
We aren't an impatient fan base.
I guess the difference is I really can't see the progression you seem to be able to. And the results tend to support me on that - because regardless of style of play this squad should be doing significantly better than they are. |
In terms of results thus far nonu agree and belive me I am equally frustrated but I do think we play better football to a plan, I can see what we are trying to do and whilst we have had some really poor showings equally we have seen when it clicks, it really clicks (Pomey for EG).
I just think that expectation of how quickly things happen needs to be tempered. I know the amount of time managers get has changed but I don't think that's right and it's doing nothing for the game so for me I'll be patient and let Cook have a fair crack as I don't want Town to be the graveyard where managers come to die...
.as for Brighton well that reflects a degree of self entitlement that saldy goes well beyond football these days but all this proves one thing, we're mot in the matrix | |
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