| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now 11:07 - Dec 21 with 4931 views | StokieBlue |
Due to staff absences from covid, mostly likely Omicron one would guess.
- 100 ambulances out of commission in London
- 40 out of 142 fire engines out of commission in London
- Nearly 5000 NHS staff absent in London
- 100 Scot rail trains cancelled
- LNER cancelling 16 mainline services
Going to be hard for some people to get home for Christmas on public transport at this rate. Also getting a bit dangerous if emergency services are losing large portions of their workforce.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |  |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:11 - Dec 21 with 2840 views | SaleAway |
There is a takeaway from this of course...
London should be locked down.
If you look at hospitalisations, London is the only region with a spike. When that happened to Manchester, it had special rules.
Again, when it hits London, the whole country gets a threat. How about we throw a ring of steel round the M25, don't let anyone out. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:13 - Dec 21 with 2829 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Can't upvote because it is bad news but you are spot on.
Stay safe people, if not for your own sake, then for the sake of others. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:15 - Dec 21 with 2813 views | bluelagos |
Didn't Khan declare a local emergency based on shortages of key staff? And where London goes, no doubt the rest of the country will be following in the coming days/weeks.
The idea that you wait until the NHS is over run before you take steps to prevent the NHS being over run is criminal imho. They've just buried their heads because they don't want to make hard/unpopular decisions.
A govt of inept populists dithering and each day you delay, the restrictions will need to be longer to be effective... |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:16 - Dec 21 with 2802 views | StokieBlue |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:11 - Dec 21 by SaleAway |
There is a takeaway from this of course...
London should be locked down.
If you look at hospitalisations, London is the only region with a spike. When that happened to Manchester, it had special rules.
Again, when it hits London, the whole country gets a threat. How about we throw a ring of steel round the M25, don't let anyone out. |
Might have had a point about 10 days ago, far too late now, Omicron is growing steadily everywhere, it's already dominant in Manchester according to the reports.
Rates in Manchester are the highest they have been at any stage of the pandemic:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/coronavirus
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:17 - Dec 21 with 2797 views | monytowbray |
This government will always prioritise the economy and will never learn. And they are inept at the basics of their job roles to boot.
Same old from day one. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:18 - Dec 21 with 2797 views | Mookamoo |
Child #1 runs a team that places agency staff in some of the London hospitals. He and most of his team are off with Omicron having all got it at their Christmas party. 2 of the 4 teams are all off, which is about 30 staff. They are doing what they can from home when feeling up to it, but it's chaos apparently. |  | | |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:25 - Dec 21 with 2733 views | JDB23 |
This is all very concerning.
Question for you Stokie, and slightly away from the original post so apologies. How are we actually going to get out of this? It appears to me the vaccine's main quality is preventing hospitalisation but infection is still fairly common. I myself caught Covid after 2 jabs and a work colleague is currently quite bad with it after 3 jabs. Given this, is it to be expected that we will just come to a point where there are endless mutations and eventually one will come along that gives a big FU to the vaccine and we're back at square 1 again?
Are there any pharma/research groups out there trying to develop a different strand of vaccine more targeted at preventing infection for example? | | | |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:31 - Dec 21 with 2693 views | giant_stow |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:11 - Dec 21 by SaleAway |
There is a takeaway from this of course...
London should be locked down.
If you look at hospitalisations, London is the only region with a spike. When that happened to Manchester, it had special rules.
Again, when it hits London, the whole country gets a threat. How about we throw a ring of steel round the M25, don't let anyone out. |
Back at the beginning of all this rumours went through London of tanks and troops on the M25 for that very reason. That was exciting briefly. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:39 - Dec 21 with 2650 views | BLUEBEAT |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:31 - Dec 21 by giant_stow |
Back at the beginning of all this rumours went through London of tanks and troops on the M25 for that very reason. That was exciting briefly. |
During the very first strict lockdown, military vehicles were regularly parked up on sliproads to the M25
That was a very weird time as I remember whipping round the North side of M25 and being the only vehicle on there - felt very 28 Days Later. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:40 - Dec 21 with 2645 views | StokieBlue |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:25 - Dec 21 by JDB23 |
This is all very concerning.
Question for you Stokie, and slightly away from the original post so apologies. How are we actually going to get out of this? It appears to me the vaccine's main quality is preventing hospitalisation but infection is still fairly common. I myself caught Covid after 2 jabs and a work colleague is currently quite bad with it after 3 jabs. Given this, is it to be expected that we will just come to a point where there are endless mutations and eventually one will come along that gives a big FU to the vaccine and we're back at square 1 again?
Are there any pharma/research groups out there trying to develop a different strand of vaccine more targeted at preventing infection for example? |
I think there is room for optimism.
As it stands the booster isn't really effective at specifically targeting Omicron, it's more like adding an extra set of soldiers to your army and even though they aren't well trained or equipped if you have enough of them they can be effective.
A dedicated Omicron vaccine will solve that and we are back to where we were plodding along under Delta. There will still be transmission but we can't stop that medically at the moment.
Longer term I would expect the next generation of vaccines to try and cover more possible mutations of the spike proteins and also attempt to reduce the viral load and thus transmission. Whether this is possible remains to be seen but it has to be the goal.
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-next-generation-covid-19-vaccines-could-he
Unfortunately given how widespread covid is now there is always the scope for a mutation such as the one you suggest, although any mutated variant now has to have a high R (or greater immune escape) than Omicron or it's not going to outcompete it and take over.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:42 - Dec 21 with 2614 views | TractorWood |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:15 - Dec 21 by bluelagos |
Didn't Khan declare a local emergency based on shortages of key staff? And where London goes, no doubt the rest of the country will be following in the coming days/weeks.
The idea that you wait until the NHS is over run before you take steps to prevent the NHS being over run is criminal imho. They've just buried their heads because they don't want to make hard/unpopular decisions.
A govt of inept populists dithering and each day you delay, the restrictions will need to be longer to be effective... |
I don't disagree. I see lots in the media about uncertainty and dithering but aren't the gov just waiting to see if Omicron leads to hugely increased hospitalisations?
If they lockdown every time cases go up then we end up endless cycles of alarmism like petrol gate, pingdemic etc. It also means everyone affected will need stimulus.
The gov can be slated for basically everything in the last 2 years but I don't think they can actually do a great deal more until we have definitive data on the severity of Omicron considering our massive booster efforts.
Most people with any sense are avoiding social interaction and wfh if they can. I think there is a reasonably obvious line between creating uncertainty and not being able to tell the future of a complicated virus. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:44 - Dec 21 with 2591 views | BarcaBlue |
In Spain the restrictions are down to each autonomous region. This in theory would allow the worst hit areas to introduce stricter measures. What happens in reality is purely political.
From Thursday Catalunya will impose a night time curfew, bars and restaurants limited to 50% inside, nightclubs and pubs closed, civil servants wfh, maximum 10 people meeting up inside. Madrid has no plans to impose any new measures. Both have similar infection rates but one is not Spain and one is run by a right wing "libertarian". |  | | |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:50 - Dec 21 with 2550 views | BlueBadger |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:17 - Dec 21 by monytowbray |
This government will always prioritise the economy and will never learn. And they are inept at the basics of their job roles to boot.
Same old from day one. |
As far back as LAST year, MD in Private Eye pointed out that countries that controlled spread better were able to enjoy more earlier and more prolonged times of 'opening' and note that it wasn't a choice between 'control spread' and 'protect the economy' but that one often followed the other. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 22:48]
|  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:53 - Dec 21 with 2514 views | bluelagos |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:42 - Dec 21 by TractorWood |
I don't disagree. I see lots in the media about uncertainty and dithering but aren't the gov just waiting to see if Omicron leads to hugely increased hospitalisations?
If they lockdown every time cases go up then we end up endless cycles of alarmism like petrol gate, pingdemic etc. It also means everyone affected will need stimulus.
The gov can be slated for basically everything in the last 2 years but I don't think they can actually do a great deal more until we have definitive data on the severity of Omicron considering our massive booster efforts.
Most people with any sense are avoiding social interaction and wfh if they can. I think there is a reasonably obvious line between creating uncertainty and not being able to tell the future of a complicated virus. |
They are waiting yes.
Would you wait until one of your kids crashed a car before suggesting driving lessons would be a good idea? Course not.
The point is, by waiting, if the variant is deadly etc. it may be too late to prevent significant harm/deaths.
You can introduce restrictions for a couple of weeks and release them if/when it turns out Omicron isn't all that. Surely that is a more sensible way of governing? | |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:58 - Dec 21 with 2490 views | StokieBlue |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:42 - Dec 21 by TractorWood |
I don't disagree. I see lots in the media about uncertainty and dithering but aren't the gov just waiting to see if Omicron leads to hugely increased hospitalisations?
If they lockdown every time cases go up then we end up endless cycles of alarmism like petrol gate, pingdemic etc. It also means everyone affected will need stimulus.
The gov can be slated for basically everything in the last 2 years but I don't think they can actually do a great deal more until we have definitive data on the severity of Omicron considering our massive booster efforts.
Most people with any sense are avoiding social interaction and wfh if they can. I think there is a reasonably obvious line between creating uncertainty and not being able to tell the future of a complicated virus. |
Unfortunately, whilst I understand they want to have something firm to point at in order to support any further restrictions, hospitalisations tend to trail infections by around two weeks (as cited by experts yesterday) so they might have to make a decision without having that data available.
Waiting for the data might simply be too late if it's bad. This is where they should be leaning heavily on their experts, such as Whitty, rather than waiting to see something with their own eyes.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:27 - Dec 21 with 2351 views | clive_baker |
Even outside of London it's impacting staffing too. My wife is a nurse and has been tee'd up to go in January and do a number of KIT days which weren't meant to be until later next year, as the expectation is that they'll be under resourced.
At this stage they aren't seeing too many going in with Covid though. Hopefully it's a trend that continues but I don't suppose we'll know until we have more data on the Omicron variant. I can't see any publicly available Covid hospitalisation data more recent than 14th December, not sure why. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:32 - Dec 21 with 2303 views | BlueBadger |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:27 - Dec 21 by clive_baker |
Even outside of London it's impacting staffing too. My wife is a nurse and has been tee'd up to go in January and do a number of KIT days which weren't meant to be until later next year, as the expectation is that they'll be under resourced.
At this stage they aren't seeing too many going in with Covid though. Hopefully it's a trend that continues but I don't suppose we'll know until we have more data on the Omicron variant. I can't see any publicly available Covid hospitalisation data more recent than 14th December, not sure why. |
I'm currently about 7 days into 10 days forced time off work due to Mrs Badger having a positive lat flow and PCR. I now have TWO negative PCRs and 7 negative lat flows to my name. Can't work until midnight Christmas Eve, though.
Under government guidelines, I COULD go down the pub or to football though.
I'm not, but I COULD. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 12:36]
| |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:32 - Dec 21 with 2295 views | TractorWood |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:53 - Dec 21 by bluelagos |
They are waiting yes.
Would you wait until one of your kids crashed a car before suggesting driving lessons would be a good idea? Course not.
The point is, by waiting, if the variant is deadly etc. it may be too late to prevent significant harm/deaths.
You can introduce restrictions for a couple of weeks and release them if/when it turns out Omicron isn't all that. Surely that is a more sensible way of governing? |
Well, they didn't invent the seatbelt until they invented the car. Point being you can't predict the future. Closing down our economy and infrastructure has dire consequences for a multitude of reasons. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 12:34]
| |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:52 - Dec 21 with 2134 views | GavTWTD |
I seem to be incredibly intolerant atm, but I've removed dribbler2 from the forum and this thread. No need to talk about him and the derailment of this thread. Nothing more needs to be said on him please. |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:53 - Dec 21 with 2103 views | BlueBadger |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:52 - Dec 21 by GavTWTD |
I seem to be incredibly intolerant atm, but I've removed dribbler2 from the forum and this thread. No need to talk about him and the derailment of this thread. Nothing more needs to be said on him please. |
So, did you remove my thread because I'd credited Phil for it? [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 12:58]
| |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:53 - Dec 21 with 2088 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:32 - Dec 21 by TractorWood |
Well, they didn't invent the seatbelt until they invented the car. Point being you can't predict the future. Closing down our economy and infrastructure has dire consequences for a multitude of reasons. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 12:34]
|
And yet, as Badger points out above, failing to do so when it is obvious that it is needed had far worse consequences on the economy, length of lockdowns and death rates. | |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:54 - Dec 21 with 2072 views | Fixed_It |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:52 - Dec 21 by GavTWTD |
I seem to be incredibly intolerant atm, but I've removed dribbler2 from the forum and this thread. No need to talk about him and the derailment of this thread. Nothing more needs to be said on him please. |
Never saw a thing. Literally. I clicked on 'a post' and it disappeared before I could read it. Clearly my imagination. Carry on... |  |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:56 - Dec 21 with 2038 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 11:44 - Dec 21 by BarcaBlue |
In Spain the restrictions are down to each autonomous region. This in theory would allow the worst hit areas to introduce stricter measures. What happens in reality is purely political.
From Thursday Catalunya will impose a night time curfew, bars and restaurants limited to 50% inside, nightclubs and pubs closed, civil servants wfh, maximum 10 people meeting up inside. Madrid has no plans to impose any new measures. Both have similar infection rates but one is not Spain and one is run by a right wing "libertarian". |
It's like there should be an independent health committee making decisions on a region-by-region basis? Or the politicians should act on advice rather than misguided popularism. | |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 13:09 - Dec 21 with 1978 views | TractorWood |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:53 - Dec 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And yet, as Badger points out above, failing to do so when it is obvious that it is needed had far worse consequences on the economy, length of lockdowns and death rates. |
I don't disagree with the conclusion holistically. I just am hesitant to say a full, penal lockdown is irrefutably required yet. I don't think there is sufficient evidence to say that.
We've made a massive effort to booster people on top of a massive vaccination campaign. Cases are worryingly high but it could be that this is nature of life now and the science behind large scale immunisation is robust enough to shelter us from the previous waves where we were materially unvaccinated. | |
| |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 13:12 - Dec 21 with 1952 views | BarcaBlue |
| Infrastructure seems to be taking a big hit now on 12:56 - Dec 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It's like there should be an independent health committee making decisions on a region-by-region basis? Or the politicians should act on advice rather than misguided popularism. |
That would make sense but would infringe on the autonomy of the autonomous regions, apparently. What complicates the situation is that any restrictions will be challenged in each autonomous region so in the end it's the courts that decide on lockdown measures. If a region decides to do nothing, there's no judicial interference.
It's a mess. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
