| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 16:52 - Dec 23 with 2233 views | gordon |
Can't be long before Dan Hodges, Toby Young or Allison Pearson says that they ought to just carry on working when they've got the virus. |  | |  |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:02 - Dec 23 with 2206 views | TractorWood |
The NHS is the biggest employer in Europe and one of the biggest in the world. This covid sickness rate is broadly equivalent to between one and two people being off at a 100 person company. I appreciate it's not ideal but it's defo not statistically an enormous deal.
It's like when some bad news comes out for a business on the stock market and its share price goes down 1% and media say 'this news has wiped £8bn off the company!' It might not be wrong but it's not really being fairly presented in context. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 17:05]
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:03 - Dec 23 with 2187 views | EastTownBlue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 16:52 - Dec 23 by gordon |
Can't be long before Dan Hodges, Toby Young or Allison Pearson says that they ought to just carry on working when they've got the virus. |
You can just see it now. Toby Young will write a whole article that he is not allowed to say that NHS staff should carry on working while ill with covid. |  | | |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:21 - Dec 23 with 2134 views | pointofblue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:03 - Dec 23 by EastTownBlue |
You can just see it now. Toby Young will write a whole article that he is not allowed to say that NHS staff should carry on working while ill with covid. |
It will get to a point where people will be told to work through Covid - how many people used to go in with a cold? We're not there yet but it'll happen one day. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:25 - Dec 23 with 2102 views | StokieBlue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 16:52 - Dec 23 by gordon |
Can't be long before Dan Hodges, Toby Young or Allison Pearson says that they ought to just carry on working when they've got the virus. |
We've had that on here already.
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:53 - Dec 23 with 2031 views | homer_123 |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:02 - Dec 23 by TractorWood |
The NHS is the biggest employer in Europe and one of the biggest in the world. This covid sickness rate is broadly equivalent to between one and two people being off at a 100 person company. I appreciate it's not ideal but it's defo not statistically an enormous deal.
It's like when some bad news comes out for a business on the stock market and its share price goes down 1% and media say 'this news has wiped £8bn off the company!' It might not be wrong but it's not really being fairly presented in context. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 17:05]
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The ever so slight difference is that the NHS cares for sick people as opposed to trading stocks and shares.
So.. when an already understaffed NHS loses more staff too, it kills people as opposed to losing a few billion.
But hey...who cares. |  |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:55 - Dec 23 with 2029 views | homer_123 |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:21 - Dec 23 by pointofblue |
It will get to a point where people will be told to work through Covid - how many people used to go in with a cold? We're not there yet but it'll happen one day. |
I've never understood why we have such a society where people feel they have to go to work when sick. Cold or worse....never understood it. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:02 - Dec 23 with 2008 views | jeera |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:55 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
I've never understood why we have such a society where people feel they have to go to work when sick. Cold or worse....never understood it. |
Because we have created a society where financial gain and social status is more important than actual people? [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 18:02]
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:12 - Dec 23 with 1986 views | TractorWood |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:53 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
The ever so slight difference is that the NHS cares for sick people as opposed to trading stocks and shares.
So.. when an already understaffed NHS loses more staff too, it kills people as opposed to losing a few billion.
But hey...who cares. |
My example was more about trying to contextualise enormous numbers as opposed to a direct comparison.
Ie it's easy to assume 19k people is an enormous amount but it's actually reasonably trivial for an organisation so unbelievably huge as the NHS, but hey...who cares about statistics and context when we can have emotive rhetoric. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:15 - Dec 23 with 1960 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:25 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
We've had that on here already.
SB |
If we get to the point where the harm to the greater good/health from people not working but who can exceeds the risk then why wouldn't you. The move to 7 rather than 10 days isolation suggests this process has already started.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59768366 |  |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:17 - Dec 23 with 1947 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:53 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
The ever so slight difference is that the NHS cares for sick people as opposed to trading stocks and shares.
So.. when an already understaffed NHS loses more staff too, it kills people as opposed to losing a few billion.
But hey...who cares. |
Indeed. That’s why every NHS and care worker should be compulsory vaccinated. I’d go so far as to extend that to anybody who works with the general public.
And no one should ever go to work when they are Ill. That’s a big change from how it used to be, but an entirely needed change of work culture. |  |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:19 - Dec 23 with 1936 views | homer_123 |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:12 - Dec 23 by TractorWood |
My example was more about trying to contextualise enormous numbers as opposed to a direct comparison.
Ie it's easy to assume 19k people is an enormous amount but it's actually reasonably trivial for an organisation so unbelievably huge as the NHS, but hey...who cares about statistics and context when we can have emotive rhetoric. |
My point being that for an under resourced NHS...that 19k is potentially hugely significant.
It unlikely that those 19k are evenly distributed across all roles and locations...for example.
But hey...stats and all that. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 18:27]
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:23 - Dec 23 with 1909 views | TractorWood |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:19 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
My point being that for an under resourced NHS...that 19k is potentially hugely significant.
It unlikely that those 19k are evenly distributed across all roles and locations...for example.
But hey...stats and all that. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 18:27]
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You'd hope there is some spread over the 52.6% clinical professionals over 1.2m staff. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:48 - Dec 23 with 1834 views | BlueBadger |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:23 - Dec 23 by TractorWood |
You'd hope there is some spread over the 52.6% clinical professionals over 1.2m staff. |
19K over 223 Acute hospital trusts works out to roughly 85 people per Trust, per day.
Even allowing for half of that, that's still over 40 clinical people per Test off sick.
That's at least one person per ward(potentially more, in smaller Trusts like Paget or West Suffolk) in your average district general. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 18:50]
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 19:05 - Dec 23 with 1782 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 18:17 - Dec 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. That’s why every NHS and care worker should be compulsory vaccinated. I’d go so far as to extend that to anybody who works with the general public.
And no one should ever go to work when they are Ill. That’s a big change from how it used to be, but an entirely needed change of work culture. |
Sick pay for the self employed....no fekkin chance! | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 20:22 - Dec 23 with 1670 views | MattinLondon |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 19:05 - Dec 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Sick pay for the self employed....no fekkin chance! |
From what people have told me who are self-employed - they enjoy working the hours that they choose to do, enjoy working for themselves and enjoy paying less tax.
Guess paid sick pay is the price a lot of the above. |  | | |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 20:43 - Dec 23 with 1641 views | jeera |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 20:22 - Dec 23 by MattinLondon |
From what people have told me who are self-employed - they enjoy working the hours that they choose to do, enjoy working for themselves and enjoy paying less tax.
Guess paid sick pay is the price a lot of the above. |
Less tax?
People on PAYE don't tend to get large VAT bills to pay. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 21:34 - Dec 23 with 1583 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 17:55 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
I've never understood why we have such a society where people feel they have to go to work when sick. Cold or worse....never understood it. |
I know you're a good guy Homey so I'm not arguing for the sake of it - but I can't understand why someone wouldn't go to work if they were feeling sick, as long as they were well enough to do their job. |  |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 21:50 - Dec 23 with 1543 views | StokieBlue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 21:34 - Dec 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I know you're a good guy Homey so I'm not arguing for the sake of it - but I can't understand why someone wouldn't go to work if they were feeling sick, as long as they were well enough to do their job. |
Historically that has been the attitude but surely you must concede that we need to change our approach to things going forward and there should be not shame in staying home when sick and no pressure applied from management in those circumstances?
If not then I fear you've learnt absolutely nothing over the last two years.
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:03 - Dec 23 with 1506 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 21:34 - Dec 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I know you're a good guy Homey so I'm not arguing for the sake of it - but I can't understand why someone wouldn't go to work if they were feeling sick, as long as they were well enough to do their job. |
To prevent themselves passing on whatever they've got to their colleagues?
I always used to go into work whenever I was ill as I feel guilty about taking time off, but in recent years I've realised it's actually pretty inconsiderate. |  | | |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:04 - Dec 23 with 1487 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 21:50 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
Historically that has been the attitude but surely you must concede that we need to change our approach to things going forward and there should be not shame in staying home when sick and no pressure applied from management in those circumstances?
If not then I fear you've learnt absolutely nothing over the last two years.
SB |
I think it depends on what sort of person you are and how you view life, rewards and responsibilities.
Personally I have a thing - I will not ask anyone to do what I am not prepared to do.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say actually, obviously it's difficult to comprehend ones opinion purely by text. If you are suggesting that someone should stay at home because they have a bit of a cold then I reckon you are nuts, if that isn't the case then I apologise - but employers have a duty to employees and vice versa
By the way, it's not just an old stiff upper lip thing. My lad RKD is a new age, politically correct activist type vegan who will tut at most things I say but boy - he puts a bloody big shift on at work and I would love to employ him.
He won't think about having a day off if he has a snuffle. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 22:08]
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:11 - Dec 23 with 1458 views | StokieBlue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:04 - Dec 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I think it depends on what sort of person you are and how you view life, rewards and responsibilities.
Personally I have a thing - I will not ask anyone to do what I am not prepared to do.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say actually, obviously it's difficult to comprehend ones opinion purely by text. If you are suggesting that someone should stay at home because they have a bit of a cold then I reckon you are nuts, if that isn't the case then I apologise - but employers have a duty to employees and vice versa
By the way, it's not just an old stiff upper lip thing. My lad RKD is a new age, politically correct activist type vegan who will tut at most things I say but boy - he puts a bloody big shift on at work and I would love to employ him.
He won't think about having a day off if he has a snuffle. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 22:08]
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The world has changed Lucan, whether you like it or not.
People should stay home when they are ill and there should be no shaming of them doing that. I wouldn't want you to come in if you were sick and working with me and in fact I think it's pretty unacceptable behaviour to your colleagues that you feel you would.
You are going to be in a minority position with this attitude. I know you don't think you are but times are changing. Just because you think it's a good thing that someone puts in a shift and wouldn't think of staying home with a cold doesn't mean it is a good thing.
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:15 - Dec 23 with 1436 views | pointofblue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:11 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
The world has changed Lucan, whether you like it or not.
People should stay home when they are ill and there should be no shaming of them doing that. I wouldn't want you to come in if you were sick and working with me and in fact I think it's pretty unacceptable behaviour to your colleagues that you feel you would.
You are going to be in a minority position with this attitude. I know you don't think you are but times are changing. Just because you think it's a good thing that someone puts in a shift and wouldn't think of staying home with a cold doesn't mean it is a good thing.
SB |
Thanks to Covid, due to the changes which have taken place because of it, those who have to work in an office environment will, more often that not, have the opportunity to work from home in the future when not 100% but well enough to carry out their job. The key thing will be whether employers let them. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:27 - Dec 23 with 1412 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:11 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
The world has changed Lucan, whether you like it or not.
People should stay home when they are ill and there should be no shaming of them doing that. I wouldn't want you to come in if you were sick and working with me and in fact I think it's pretty unacceptable behaviour to your colleagues that you feel you would.
You are going to be in a minority position with this attitude. I know you don't think you are but times are changing. Just because you think it's a good thing that someone puts in a shift and wouldn't think of staying home with a cold doesn't mean it is a good thing.
SB |
The thing is Stokie I don't agree with your opinion but I accept it, you however are telling me that things have changed whether I like it or not.
So, let's just say you aren't feeling quite 100%. You think it's ok to just not work?
Staggering attitute. | |
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| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:37 - Dec 23 with 1386 views | StokieBlue |
| Which feeble-minded tory backbencher on 22:27 - Dec 23 by Lord_Lucan |
The thing is Stokie I don't agree with your opinion but I accept it, you however are telling me that things have changed whether I like it or not.
So, let's just say you aren't feeling quite 100%. You think it's ok to just not work?
Staggering attitute. |
I would have agreed with you previously and there is huge scope around what "not feeling 100%" actually means. There should be discussions around that, discussions are good.
In general though, I don't agree with you anymore. If your symptomatic (for instance having a cold) then you shouldn't be in work if it's at all possible.
You say it's a staggering attitude but someone else has already replied to you with the same answer as me so perhaps it's not as unusual as you think.
Now of course I understand that every job is different and it's easier in some jobs than others but I certainly believe things are changing - you can see that even in this thread.
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