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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 11:21 - Dec 26 by Chrisd
Our batting has been shown up as poor, however our bowling is just as toothless. Got to say it, but I think it’s about time we moved on from Broad and Anderson now. They have been incredible bowlers for England for years, but this series and the one in India has shown they are now past their best. I feel for Leach as he’s expected to preform at the highest level having not played any competitive cricket for his county or England for months, then what are we left with? Robinson certainly has promise for me, but we’ve got too many bowlers that bowl the same pace, the same length and are all right handers, we’ve got zero variation apart Wood with his pace. Our bowling is so one dimensional, it’s incredible anyone believes there will be a different outcome.
[Post edited 26 Dec 2021 11:25]
Bowlers have been okay. Root lost a lot of respect form me calling out the bowlers rather than the batting after the 2nd test.
They have settled into rarely using broad and anderson at the same time, which must be right save in English conditions. Leach has never really been good enough.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:21 - Dec 26 with 1388 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 12:54 - Dec 26 by ZXBlue
Bowlers have been okay. Root lost a lot of respect form me calling out the bowlers rather than the batting after the 2nd test.
They have settled into rarely using broad and anderson at the same time, which must be right save in English conditions. Leach has never really been good enough.
Like football, it’s about opinions and I’m going to respectfully disagree with you. Our bowlers have been mediocre with poor fielding which doesn’t help matters. The Aussie first innings scores this series to set the platform - 425 - 1st test, 473 - 2nd test and I’ve no doubt it’ll be another 300+ score for this first innings, that isn’t good enough from our point of view. So yes, I think our bowling has been flagged up as being average and predictable. Leach is our best spin option, but he doesn’t get to play to refine his art, so how do you expect him to improve?
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:21 - Dec 26 by Chrisd
Like football, it’s about opinions and I’m going to respectfully disagree with you. Our bowlers have been mediocre with poor fielding which doesn’t help matters. The Aussie first innings scores this series to set the platform - 425 - 1st test, 473 - 2nd test and I’ve no doubt it’ll be another 300+ score for this first innings, that isn’t good enough from our point of view. So yes, I think our bowling has been flagged up as being average and predictable. Leach is our best spin option, but he doesn’t get to play to refine his art, so how do you expect him to improve?
The fielding was a major issue, but the pitch was innocuous. High scores are common in Aus.
Bowling is predictable because 4 right arm medium fasts are picked each game. I dont say they are exceptional but they have largely done their job. Only Root in the batting order has done his job consistently for years now. Without him, I doubt we would have won a test over the last 3 years.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:35 - Dec 26 with 1378 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:26 - Dec 26 by ZXBlue
The fielding was a major issue, but the pitch was innocuous. High scores are common in Aus.
Bowling is predictable because 4 right arm medium fasts are picked each game. I dont say they are exceptional but they have largely done their job. Only Root in the batting order has done his job consistently for years now. Without him, I doubt we would have won a test over the last 3 years.
I don’t disagree about the batting, but our bowling is also a huge issue too. All the same pace, all right handers with little variation if it doesn’t swing. When I look at Cook’s side that won in Australia in 2010/11. You had a real good mix and a balance to our bowling attack with a top quality spinner like Swann who knew his craft. We also had Tremlett and Finn that could get significant bounce to unsettle the Aussie batsmen. Our seam bowlers now are invariably all the same the bowler, apart from Wood. Let’s bring on another bowler that bowls right handed at 85mph!
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:35 - Dec 26 by Chrisd
I don’t disagree about the batting, but our bowling is also a huge issue too. All the same pace, all right handers with little variation if it doesn’t swing. When I look at Cook’s side that won in Australia in 2010/11. You had a real good mix and a balance to our bowling attack with a top quality spinner like Swann who knew his craft. We also had Tremlett and Finn that could get significant bounce to unsettle the Aussie batsmen. Our seam bowlers now are invariably all the same the bowler, apart from Wood. Let’s bring on another bowler that bowls right handed at 85mph!
Thats a selection issue rather than performance though
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:42 - Dec 26 with 1368 views
How many more times does it need to be shown we do not have any good enough English cricket coaches. Need an overseas coach.
Whilst player performance has been poor the whole slide started 15 months ago with the awful preagreed rest and rotation before a ball has even been bowled and the awful match tactics as well as selection. All 3 are Silverwoods main responsibility.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:42 - Dec 26 with 1365 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:42 - Dec 26 by Ace_High1
Silverwood out.
The word England coach along with Moores.
How many more times does it need to be shown we do not have any good enough English cricket coaches. Need an overseas coach.
Whilst player performance has been poor the whole slide started 15 months ago with the awful preagreed rest and rotation before a ball has even been bowled and the awful match tactics as well as selection. All 3 are Silverwoods main responsibility.
Not sure how anyone concludes its about the coach.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 14:23 - Dec 26 with 1344 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 11:21 - Dec 26 by Chrisd
Our batting has been shown up as poor, however our bowling is just as toothless. Got to say it, but I think it’s about time we moved on from Broad and Anderson now. They have been incredible bowlers for England for years, but this series and the one in India has shown they are now past their best. I feel for Leach as he’s expected to preform at the highest level having not played any competitive cricket for his county or England for months, then what are we left with? Robinson certainly has promise for me, but we’ve got too many bowlers that bowl the same pace, the same length and are all right handers, we’ve got zero variation apart Wood with his pace. Our bowling is so one dimensional, it’s incredible anyone believes there will be a different outcome.
[Post edited 26 Dec 2021 11:25]
I think with Broad and Anderson It depends. In English conditions there are none better. Both still capable of mesmerising spells but I think we could see them both retire after this series but in Aus they have never really done it and for 2 such top class bowlers to still get it so wrong over there is baffling. Yes they are handicapped by not being the pacey tall bowlers that suit Oz but they would have so much more success by bowling that bit fuller.
Speed and bounce are helpful there....but not essential and you can mitigate against the lack off it if you bowl tonthe conditions
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 14:23 - Dec 26 by BlueandTruesince82
I think with Broad and Anderson It depends. In English conditions there are none better. Both still capable of mesmerising spells but I think we could see them both retire after this series but in Aus they have never really done it and for 2 such top class bowlers to still get it so wrong over there is baffling. Yes they are handicapped by not being the pacey tall bowlers that suit Oz but they would have so much more success by bowling that bit fuller.
Speed and bounce are helpful there....but not essential and you can mitigate against the lack off it if you bowl tonthe conditions
The batting has been abject for a long long time. Bowling is the least of our concerns.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 14:55 - Dec 26 with 1321 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 14:35 - Dec 26 by ZXBlue
The batting has been abject for a long long time. Bowling is the least of our concerns.
I agree the batting has been awful for more than just this series but none the less the bowling has been one dimensional and wrong for the conditions.
Broad and Anderson have been around long enough and played enough in Aus where they should have learned by now and they should be capable of bowling to the captains requirement.
I think the batting would improve if we had 2 decent openers. Stokes, butler, bairstow are far better having even a semblance of a platform to build from..The reality is that Burns, Hameed (who at least you can say its his 1st tour down under) Crawley are sadly the best we have. Who else do you pick? I think in that instance they are doing the best they can, unfortunately its not good enough. It fine to say they need to be better but I just don't think they can be. Broad and Anderson on the other hand can and by bowling a fuller length they would be giving themselves more of a chance, we know they can bowl full. We know they are still world class bowlers and you need your best players to step up when the team is struggling. Same for Stokes and Woakes, granted Stoakes has had no cricket prior to this but both need to better with bat and ball and we do know both can bat but coming in with 140/150 on the board is never going to suit them.
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 14:55 - Dec 26 by BlueandTruesince82
I agree the batting has been awful for more than just this series but none the less the bowling has been one dimensional and wrong for the conditions.
Broad and Anderson have been around long enough and played enough in Aus where they should have learned by now and they should be capable of bowling to the captains requirement.
I think the batting would improve if we had 2 decent openers. Stokes, butler, bairstow are far better having even a semblance of a platform to build from..The reality is that Burns, Hameed (who at least you can say its his 1st tour down under) Crawley are sadly the best we have. Who else do you pick? I think in that instance they are doing the best they can, unfortunately its not good enough. It fine to say they need to be better but I just don't think they can be. Broad and Anderson on the other hand can and by bowling a fuller length they would be giving themselves more of a chance, we know they can bowl full. We know they are still world class bowlers and you need your best players to step up when the team is struggling. Same for Stokes and Woakes, granted Stoakes has had no cricket prior to this but both need to better with bat and ball and we do know both can bat but coming in with 140/150 on the board is never going to suit them.
The whole horrendous Rashid saga, with more players now also making public their experiences of racism within various counties, makes you wonder what other talent is being held back or screened out before they've even had a chance.
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 14:23 - Dec 26 by BlueandTruesince82
I think with Broad and Anderson It depends. In English conditions there are none better. Both still capable of mesmerising spells but I think we could see them both retire after this series but in Aus they have never really done it and for 2 such top class bowlers to still get it so wrong over there is baffling. Yes they are handicapped by not being the pacey tall bowlers that suit Oz but they would have so much more success by bowling that bit fuller.
Speed and bounce are helpful there....but not essential and you can mitigate against the lack off it if you bowl tonthe conditions
The ECB really need to look at the whole system - county structure, selection, coaching and the players. We are back to where we were late 90s just before Duncan Fletcher became involved. There’s quite a lot of sides better than us in the test arena - Australia, India, NZ, Pakistan to name a few.
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:21 - Dec 26 by Chrisd
Like football, it’s about opinions and I’m going to respectfully disagree with you. Our bowlers have been mediocre with poor fielding which doesn’t help matters. The Aussie first innings scores this series to set the platform - 425 - 1st test, 473 - 2nd test and I’ve no doubt it’ll be another 300+ score for this first innings, that isn’t good enough from our point of view. So yes, I think our bowling has been flagged up as being average and predictable. Leach is our best spin option, but he doesn’t get to play to refine his art, so how do you expect him to improve?
Lord Selvey made a good point about the bowling though, if the England bowlers were bowling at the England batters, and had the Aussies catching for them, do you think theyd have taken more wickets ?
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 17:21 - Dec 26 with 1227 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 00:38 - Dec 26 by Ryorry
Seems to me there's something fundamentally wrong with a sport if the outcome of a major match can be decided by the toss or draw, before the game itself has even started.
Maybe for an Ashes series where one side is already 2-0 down, the trailing side could be awarded the automatic right to choose whether to bat/bowl? Even most Australians would prefer to see something of a contest, I think.
England could have won the toss and regardless of choosing to bat or bowl first,we'd still be losing this game, the toss is making no difference except amusing the Australians, because they are taking the proverbial by winning the toss and choosing to bowl first, its almost considered unAustralian not to bat first at the MCG if you win the toss.
and the pitch isnt making Buttler in the last over before tea choose to go for a massive hoik,the boundaries are huge at the MCG,you are not knocking the ball there for a casual flick for four or six over a fielders head no matter what your T20 credentials are, so its a stupidly risky shot.
so why do it ? with the game at that situation, when youve been told by your captain stay in the game at all costs, he showed at Adelaide he can do it, and Malan in the morning session was showing how to do it, scored 9 I think it was off 30-40 odd balls, then was maybe unlucky he picked the wrong line to lose his wicket, but Cummings had been teeing him up for it for a while.
so if England just keep chucking away their wickets because they think they are playing in the big bash and not a 5 day test match, they will just keep losing.
the ECB wont do anything because come the summer, the grounds will be full again, the ball will be looping round corners, the team will look like world beaters against South Africa and theyll ignore all the problems created by focusing on short game cricket for another 4 years.
this Australian side are nowhere near the quality of the ones who used to demolish even good England sides, England are making them look good because we really are that bad.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 17:44 - Dec 26 with 1212 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 17:21 - Dec 26 by stonojnr
England could have won the toss and regardless of choosing to bat or bowl first,we'd still be losing this game, the toss is making no difference except amusing the Australians, because they are taking the proverbial by winning the toss and choosing to bowl first, its almost considered unAustralian not to bat first at the MCG if you win the toss.
and the pitch isnt making Buttler in the last over before tea choose to go for a massive hoik,the boundaries are huge at the MCG,you are not knocking the ball there for a casual flick for four or six over a fielders head no matter what your T20 credentials are, so its a stupidly risky shot.
so why do it ? with the game at that situation, when youve been told by your captain stay in the game at all costs, he showed at Adelaide he can do it, and Malan in the morning session was showing how to do it, scored 9 I think it was off 30-40 odd balls, then was maybe unlucky he picked the wrong line to lose his wicket, but Cummings had been teeing him up for it for a while.
so if England just keep chucking away their wickets because they think they are playing in the big bash and not a 5 day test match, they will just keep losing.
the ECB wont do anything because come the summer, the grounds will be full again, the ball will be looping round corners, the team will look like world beaters against South Africa and theyll ignore all the problems created by focusing on short game cricket for another 4 years.
this Australian side are nowhere near the quality of the ones who used to demolish even good England sides, England are making them look good because we really are that bad.
I know we're currently cr@p, and completely agree with all who've said that the ECB are stupidly focussed on short forms of the game, esp the ridiculous 100 (which I hate), at the expense of Tests, but that doesn't deal with the basic point that winning the toss shouldn't, imho, have so much influence in determinating the outcome of any sports match. Even you alluded to that happening in your first para re the MCG!
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 17:44 - Dec 26 by Ryorry
I know we're currently cr@p, and completely agree with all who've said that the ECB are stupidly focussed on short forms of the game, esp the ridiculous 100 (which I hate), at the expense of Tests, but that doesn't deal with the basic point that winning the toss shouldn't, imho, have so much influence in determinating the outcome of any sports match. Even you alluded to that happening in your first para re the MCG!
When Australia played India last year (4 tests, result 2-1 India) - all three tests with a result were won by the side losing the toss.
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 13:42 - Dec 26 by ZXBlue
Not sure how anyone concludes its about the coach.
Because he set the tone.
Wanted all the power as the chief selector and then instigated this genius rest and rotate system that saw us go 1-0 up against India and then send players home after one test and guess what we lost all momentum after winning in Sri Lanka and that first test in India. Since then we lost 3-1 to India, barely won a test all summer and not this in Australia.
Did we not learn with Moores? Root is an awful captain; he should just bat.
New leadership required.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 19:48 - Dec 26 with 1126 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 19:46 - Dec 26 by Ace_High1
Because he set the tone.
Wanted all the power as the chief selector and then instigated this genius rest and rotate system that saw us go 1-0 up against India and then send players home after one test and guess what we lost all momentum after winning in Sri Lanka and that first test in India. Since then we lost 3-1 to India, barely won a test all summer and not this in Australia.
Did we not learn with Moores? Root is an awful captain; he should just bat.
New leadership required.
Its the same problem as has been present for years.
The sending players home, amidst covid etc, was hardly a matter of choice and strategy
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 19:56 - Dec 26 with 1121 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 18:21 - Dec 26 by Ryorry
Yes, Guthers pointed this out and fair enough, well done India, but what are the stats over a much longer period of time, say the last 20 or 21 years?
Three of the original 5 venues for the Ashes are now drop-in pitches that get tweaked each year. This MCG pitch is supposed to be much improved on the Ashes one four years ago.
I'm not sure history of this in Australia is relevant - e.g. what happened on the old Adelaide pitch is of little relevance to a game on a drop-in with a pink ball under lights. Even with knowledge of recent Adelaide pink-ball tests, the ball didn't behave the way many thought it would before the game.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 20:33 - Dec 26 with 1073 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 17:44 - Dec 26 by Ryorry
I know we're currently cr@p, and completely agree with all who've said that the ECB are stupidly focussed on short forms of the game, esp the ridiculous 100 (which I hate), at the expense of Tests, but that doesn't deal with the basic point that winning the toss shouldn't, imho, have so much influence in determinating the outcome of any sports match. Even you alluded to that happening in your first para re the MCG!
well no because Cummins effetively nullified the advantage of winning the toss by giving Root the chance to bat first, and its not because the pitch is a crazy bowlers paradise, its because he's just confident our batting is so fragile they can bowl us out in under 3 sessions just by bowling balls in the right areas.
so winning or losing the toss is making no difference to the outcomes of these games, Australia lost the toss in the first game, and still beat England comfortably. if Cummins had thought we could post more than 300, theyd have batted first instead.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 20:45 - Dec 26 with 1065 views
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 19:48 - Dec 26 by ZXBlue
Its the same problem as has been present for years.
The sending players home, amidst covid etc, was hardly a matter of choice and strategy
There’s no doubt Silverwood isn’t up to the job and the fact he’s part of the selection process he needs some accountability. The wheels have been coming off since we won the first test in India.
2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 19:46 - Dec 26 by Ace_High1
Because he set the tone.
Wanted all the power as the chief selector and then instigated this genius rest and rotate system that saw us go 1-0 up against India and then send players home after one test and guess what we lost all momentum after winning in Sri Lanka and that first test in India. Since then we lost 3-1 to India, barely won a test all summer and not this in Australia.
Did we not learn with Moores? Root is an awful captain; he should just bat.
New leadership required.
Don't agree that Root is an awful captain. Whoever you think is the best captain in the world couldn't get this pathetic bunch to bat better.
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2-0 down, lost the toss. Do or die ... on 21:30 - Dec 26 with 1011 views
Here's my solution to fix English Cricket. Play County Championship games all through the summer Monday-Thursday leaving the weekend free for the White Ball stuff.
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