| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? 20:16 - Jan 6 with 5001 views | Zapers |
Given that two jurors have been exposed for lying about their past.
Personally I feel she should be retried since it’s inconceivable that their own experience did not impact on their judgement, and possibly the judgement of other jurors.
I’m not in anyway sympathetic if she is definitely guilty, I’m just not so sure now given these revelations.
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:17 - Jan 6 with 1869 views | BlueBadger |
Christ, people are DESPERATE for her to get off, aren't they? |  |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:18 - Jan 6 with 1861 views | J2BLUE |
Yes. It would definitely have been a factor.
Still think it would be the same result based on what was reported. |  |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:23 - Jan 6 with 1831 views | Zapers |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:18 - Jan 6 by J2BLUE |
Yes. It would definitely have been a factor.
Still think it would be the same result based on what was reported. |
You would like to think so but there’s always that nagging doubt. | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:25 - Jan 6 with 1815 views | footers |
Sure, why not. Atm it would be like San Marino playing Germany so I'd be up for it. Cricket score of convictions. |  |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:28 - Jan 6 with 1798 views | footers |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:17 - Jan 6 by BlueBadger |
Christ, people are DESPERATE for her to get off, aren't they? |
Yes. But also I hate the elites in society or someting. I definitely don't hate those poor foreigners, not one bit. I'm with them and am on Jacob Rees-Mogg's side.
God knows how it works now, really. | |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:28 - Jan 6 with 1797 views | Seablu |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:17 - Jan 6 by BlueBadger |
Christ, people are DESPERATE for her to get off, aren't they? |
If she looked like Myra Hindley, I don’t think she’d be getting half the support she’s garnering from certain odd individuals on here. |  | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:34 - Jan 6 with 1753 views | BABLUE |
Make it best of three perhaps? |  | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:35 - Jan 6 with 1749 views | Ryorry |
On the basis that 2 jurors in the first trial were themselves survivors of sexual abuse? I thought it was just one, so another has presumably made the revelation.
Why shouldn't the jury have two such people involved? Jurors are comprised of people with life experience, & sadly, sexual abuse is not that uncommon. |  |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:42 - Jan 6 with 1723 views | bluestandard |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:17 - Jan 6 by BlueBadger |
Christ, people are DESPERATE for her to get off, aren't they? |
I don’t hear that in the OP. I think she is guilty, and want to see her go to jail for life, but not at the expense of due process.
The sad truth is that those who think a it will be a simple re-run and the same result could be very disappointed imo. Firstly, it will be very difficult to convene a jury who hasn’t heard the result of this trial and there will be strong arguments that she can’t now get a fair trial. Secondly, that idiot juror spouted his mouth of about several details in the case that the jury were privy to but not the general public. These disclosures mean there is at least a doubt about whether that information will be available to jury no2.
Perhaps the FIA should handle the trial, since a last minute change of the rules is what’s needed here…….oh dear I’m still not over it lol. | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:44 - Jan 6 with 1709 views | Bluedicea |
The problem with this case and many other high profile US cases, is they will very rarely get a fair trial. The media frenzy in the run up and during will have an effect on people and very few people will be truly immune to the influence, they will have formed an opinion one way or the other already, whether this opinion changes during the trial and deliberation is immaterial. They are starting from a compromised position.
This is unfortunately why a larger proportion of high profile cases end up with retrial or objections and a lot of 'clearly guilty' people can get off on technicalities.
This problem is more acute in the modern era of 24/7 news soundbites and social media being more about opinions than facts and treating the rich and popular like deities.
Do I think there should be a retrial? No, it would just prolong the circus. I'm doubtful future juries would change the verdict, and it would just allow more chances for her to escape on a technicality rather than be cleared of any wrongdoing, which in my opinion would be an abuse of the laws designed to protect people. |  |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:46 - Jan 6 with 1693 views | Zapers |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:35 - Jan 6 by Ryorry |
On the basis that 2 jurors in the first trial were themselves survivors of sexual abuse? I thought it was just one, so another has presumably made the revelation.
Why shouldn't the jury have two such people involved? Jurors are comprised of people with life experience, & sadly, sexual abuse is not that uncommon. |
Because when they filled in the questionnaire they lied about having suffered abuse | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:47 - Jan 6 with 1685 views | eireblue |
“Exposed for lying” bit dramatic.
Why discount someone that has been abused to serve on the Jury for her trial?
If someone was being tried for a racist or homophobic attack, should the jury only consist of people that hadn’t been subject to racism or homophobia? |  | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:54 - Jan 6 with 1641 views | Ryorry |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:46 - Jan 6 by Zapers |
Because when they filled in the questionnaire they lied about having suffered abuse |
So her defence would have tried to have had them ruled out? That in itself seems like an abuse of justice to me.
They wouldn't try to exclude 2 people who'd themselves been victims of burglary, from sitting on juries in the trial of a burglar.
So my answer to your OP is obviously 'no'. | |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:54 - Jan 6 with 1647 views | Bluedicea |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:47 - Jan 6 by eireblue |
“Exposed for lying” bit dramatic.
Why discount someone that has been abused to serve on the Jury for her trial?
If someone was being tried for a racist or homophobic attack, should the jury only consist of people that hadn’t been subject to racism or homophobia? |
Jury members have to declare if they have been a victim of the same or similar crimes as to the one they are hearing. This is to try to stop any bias being formed by past experiences.
As the jurors are there only to look at the facts of the case in front of them, bringing up past personal experiences to decide another person's guilt is not an honest and impartial way to decide if someone should be punished for a crime or not. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:57 - Jan 6 with 1626 views | Ryorry |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:54 - Jan 6 by Bluedicea |
Jury members have to declare if they have been a victim of the same or similar crimes as to the one they are hearing. This is to try to stop any bias being formed by past experiences.
As the jurors are there only to look at the facts of the case in front of them, bringing up past personal experiences to decide another person's guilt is not an honest and impartial way to decide if someone should be punished for a crime or not. |
Trying to ensure their complete exclusion would not be representative though. It's not as if all 12 jury members had such an experience in their lives. | |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:59 - Jan 6 with 1620 views | Zapers |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:54 - Jan 6 by Bluedicea |
Jury members have to declare if they have been a victim of the same or similar crimes as to the one they are hearing. This is to try to stop any bias being formed by past experiences.
As the jurors are there only to look at the facts of the case in front of them, bringing up past personal experiences to decide another person's guilt is not an honest and impartial way to decide if someone should be punished for a crime or not. |
Thank you. | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:09 - Jan 6 with 1588 views | Guthrum |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:57 - Jan 6 by Ryorry |
Trying to ensure their complete exclusion would not be representative though. It's not as if all 12 jury members had such an experience in their lives. |
It's not to automatically exclude them, but to give the defence the information they need if they wish to lodge an objection to that person.
If the juror in question was asked whether they had had such an experience (which seems to have been the case) and was truthful in their response (which is in doubt), followed by neither the defence nor prosecution objecting to their sitting in the trial, then they are perfectly entitled to use what happened to them in changing the minds of the other members.
It all turns on how truthfully they completed the paperwork during the jury selection process. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 21:17]
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:10 - Jan 6 with 1577 views | Zapers |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:57 - Jan 6 by Ryorry |
Trying to ensure their complete exclusion would not be representative though. It's not as if all 12 jury members had such an experience in their lives. |
Ryorry, they have to disclose certain facts during jury selection, it's the norm. Any individual that could show bias as a result of previous history would be discounted. It really could be any factor, however in a case involving sexual abuse, it's fairly obvious the victim, in this case the two jurors, could show huge bias in their deliberations. | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:12 - Jan 6 with 1565 views | Guthrum |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:46 - Jan 6 by Zapers |
Because when they filled in the questionnaire they lied about having suffered abuse |
May have. That is not yet certain, altho the fact the prosecution has directed they appoint lawyers would suggest it is the case and they are likely to find themselves in deep trouble. | |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:13 - Jan 6 with 1562 views | lowhouseblue |
the u.s. system of jury selection is bonkers. this is another example of it. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:14 - Jan 6 with 1554 views | Zapers |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:10 - Jan 6 by Zapers |
Ryorry, they have to disclose certain facts during jury selection, it's the norm. Any individual that could show bias as a result of previous history would be discounted. It really could be any factor, however in a case involving sexual abuse, it's fairly obvious the victim, in this case the two jurors, could show huge bias in their deliberations. |
And as Guthrum states, equally importantly, they may have lied | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:14 - Jan 6 with 1555 views | eireblue |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:54 - Jan 6 by Bluedicea |
Jury members have to declare if they have been a victim of the same or similar crimes as to the one they are hearing. This is to try to stop any bias being formed by past experiences.
As the jurors are there only to look at the facts of the case in front of them, bringing up past personal experiences to decide another person's guilt is not an honest and impartial way to decide if someone should be punished for a crime or not. |
That also creates a bias.
An all white jury, for instance, does not have the life experience to understand what is racist.
Happens quite a lot, people decide what isn’t racist or homophobic, when they aren’t the target of such abuse.
How can a member of the public, that has no knowledge of abuse, understand what it is like to be abused, and so assess the veracity of a witness.
If the entire jury was filled with people that had all suffered the same crime, and all of whom had not seen justice served, sure, that would more likely to be a bias jury.
A minority of jury members with relevant life experience, that seems perfectly reasonable. | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:16 - Jan 6 with 1548 views | bluestandard |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:47 - Jan 6 by eireblue |
“Exposed for lying” bit dramatic.
Why discount someone that has been abused to serve on the Jury for her trial?
If someone was being tried for a racist or homophobic attack, should the jury only consist of people that hadn’t been subject to racism or homophobia? |
Turn that on its head and ask if you would be comfortable as someone from an ethnic minority having someone with known racist views on the jury? | | | |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:16 - Jan 6 with 1546 views | Guthrum |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:54 - Jan 6 by Ryorry |
So her defence would have tried to have had them ruled out? That in itself seems like an abuse of justice to me.
They wouldn't try to exclude 2 people who'd themselves been victims of burglary, from sitting on juries in the trial of a burglar.
So my answer to your OP is obviously 'no'. |
Except that there is the possibility of bias against burglars (or, in this case, sexual predators), which may colour their interpretation of the evidence. Jurors are not supposed to have expertise in the field, just be open-minded, rational individuals capable of making a decision.
Altho, interestingly, in the Middle ages, jurors were actually a panel of people with some knowlege or expertise in the case. The bit about impartial verdict delivery only came later. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 21:17]
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| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 21:16 - Jan 6 with 1545 views | Bluedicea |
| Do people feel Ghislaine Maxwell should be retried? on 20:57 - Jan 6 by Ryorry |
Trying to ensure their complete exclusion would not be representative though. It's not as if all 12 jury members had such an experience in their lives. |
True. It's more about trying to limit miscarriages of justice rather than exclude people. A victim of the same crime could potentially harbour grudges against the defendant and so not be honest in the assessment of facts, they also are potentially likely to suffer flashbacks or other feelings of anxiety or fear due to the nature of the evidence being quite graphic, so this protects them from harm and also acts as way that the juror cannot later claim the trial damaged them mentally as they agreed they had no strong views either way about the crime involved.
A side note. I was always puzzled by that, society rightly condemns certain crimes and most people have strong views on such. Yet a jury member has to have no strong opinion of the crime involved either way, to prove impartiality.
It's one way I have been told you can get out of jury service, whatever the crime is you're being asked about, write all criminals should be hanged, they will decline you for jury service because of the extreme views. | |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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