| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... 09:24 - Jan 21 with 4708 views | unstableblue |
... moved further down the pecking order by one place
Harper clearly has failed overall on the pitch, but I did think he some really good attributes when he started..just needed to work on other aspects of his game
Certainly he must have expected to be a regular dropping down a tier |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:26 - Jan 21 with 2988 views | Kieran_Knows |
Carroll to leave permanently this month with El Mizouni going out on loan. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:29 - Jan 21 with 2958 views | OwainG1992 |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:26 - Jan 21 by Kieran_Knows |
Carroll to leave permanently this month with El Mizouni going out on loan. |
Idris and Harper I could see going out on loan.
Carrol I wouldn't be surprised to see kept until the end of season for cover. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:29 - Jan 21 with 2957 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Should only think Harper is bothered. Carrol won't be around for long and El Miz is just finding his way, needs a L2 loan to get game time. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:32 - Jan 21 with 2917 views | itfcjoe |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:29 - Jan 21 by Wallingford_Boy |
Should only think Harper is bothered. Carrol won't be around for long and El Miz is just finding his way, needs a L2 loan to get game time. |
Idris has had 2 loans into League 2, he needs to be playing in this division - us being mid table in the third tier with this squad is an issue in that regard! |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:36 - Jan 21 with 2869 views | Herbivore |
Think El Miz and possibly Harper too need a loan spell at this level to get some game time and develop. Harper hasn't shown enough yet but has potential, hard to fulfil that when he's not playing here though. El Miz has done pretty well overall when given game time but he's not ready yet to be a mainstay for us in midfield so some more regular minutes elsewhere might be best for his development. I don't really have an issue with us looking to strengthen in midfield, we have numbers there but not enough players we can rely on. Evans is too inconsistent for me and I expect Bakinson will be pushing him hard for a starting spot. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:41 - Jan 21 with 2833 views | jayessess |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:29 - Jan 21 by OwainG1992 |
Idris and Harper I could see going out on loan.
Carrol I wouldn't be surprised to see kept until the end of season for cover. |
People talk about sending players like Pigott and Harper out on loan, but it'd be incredibly complicated to get that sort of deal done. Harper and Pigott have both played plenty of games at this level or levels above, you can't really say to them "we need you to develop your game more to play in League One" and you can't really offer "go smash it at Salford and you'll push your way up the pecking order" as an incentive.
From the club's perspective it's hard to see how a loan spell develops either player in a way that helps us. At best they go play games, get a bit of form, just in time for everyone to head off for their Summer holidays!
What we ultimately want from both players is to develop their game so they can put their obvious talents to work in our first team, which surely is a job for McKenna to be doing on the training ground rather than just a matter of getting games into them.
For me, you loan out senior players with significant first team experience when they're half way out the door and you either can't arrange a permanent transfer or because you want to leave the door ever so slightly ajar, not for development. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:54 - Jan 21 with 2768 views | Guthrum |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:41 - Jan 21 by jayessess |
People talk about sending players like Pigott and Harper out on loan, but it'd be incredibly complicated to get that sort of deal done. Harper and Pigott have both played plenty of games at this level or levels above, you can't really say to them "we need you to develop your game more to play in League One" and you can't really offer "go smash it at Salford and you'll push your way up the pecking order" as an incentive.
From the club's perspective it's hard to see how a loan spell develops either player in a way that helps us. At best they go play games, get a bit of form, just in time for everyone to head off for their Summer holidays!
What we ultimately want from both players is to develop their game so they can put their obvious talents to work in our first team, which surely is a job for McKenna to be doing on the training ground rather than just a matter of getting games into them.
For me, you loan out senior players with significant first team experience when they're half way out the door and you either can't arrange a permanent transfer or because you want to leave the door ever so slightly ajar, not for development. |
The problem being there is no proper competition for First Team reserve players to hone their skills outside of the League and cups (the latter of which we are no longer in, anyway). The U23s are limited and risk stunting the development of younger players if flooded with seniors all the time.
Rotation in the League is constrained by the limit on squad size for outfield players over the age of 20.
Our only alternative is loaning them to fellow L1 sides, which could damage Town's own chances of promotion and, in any case, may not be affordable for them if our wage structure is more generous than the average. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 10:05 - Jan 21 with 2714 views | chrismakin |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:41 - Jan 21 by jayessess |
People talk about sending players like Pigott and Harper out on loan, but it'd be incredibly complicated to get that sort of deal done. Harper and Pigott have both played plenty of games at this level or levels above, you can't really say to them "we need you to develop your game more to play in League One" and you can't really offer "go smash it at Salford and you'll push your way up the pecking order" as an incentive.
From the club's perspective it's hard to see how a loan spell develops either player in a way that helps us. At best they go play games, get a bit of form, just in time for everyone to head off for their Summer holidays!
What we ultimately want from both players is to develop their game so they can put their obvious talents to work in our first team, which surely is a job for McKenna to be doing on the training ground rather than just a matter of getting games into them.
For me, you loan out senior players with significant first team experience when they're half way out the door and you either can't arrange a permanent transfer or because you want to leave the door ever so slightly ajar, not for development. |
This is my frustration with the new signing
I had hoped someone like KM would come in bring on the likes of Harper, idris etc rather than shopping at the first opportunity when ideally imo we have issues in other areas of the squad that need priority.
I appreciate what Herbz is saying. But we are a midtable league 1 side.. we shouldn't be looking to loan out players to midtable league 1 sides, they should be playing games here or being let go completely if they aren't making the grade.
Imo |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 11:02 - Jan 21 with 2587 views | franz_tyson |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:32 - Jan 21 by itfcjoe |
Idris has had 2 loans into League 2, he needs to be playing in this division - us being mid table in the third tier with this squad is an issue in that regard! |
SPL or Scottish Championship level ( not Hamilton) as loans? Ndaba and Drinan had decent loans at Ayr. I think for El Miz and Harper it’s important to get them first team football. Lowly L1 teams maybe the best option, but anywhere where they’ve got a good chance of week in, week out football. |  | | |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 11:05 - Jan 21 with 2561 views | StokieBlue |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 10:05 - Jan 21 by chrismakin |
This is my frustration with the new signing
I had hoped someone like KM would come in bring on the likes of Harper, idris etc rather than shopping at the first opportunity when ideally imo we have issues in other areas of the squad that need priority.
I appreciate what Herbz is saying. But we are a midtable league 1 side.. we shouldn't be looking to loan out players to midtable league 1 sides, they should be playing games here or being let go completely if they aren't making the grade.
Imo |
So you expect McKenna to just work with what he has?
Perhaps he doesn't rate those players or wants someone with different attributes? Perhaps he thinks those players aren't ready for his first team?
Perhaps he doesn't think we have issues in other areas or perhaps he's still working on deals in those areas?
In the end both McKenna and the neighbours cat have more coherent opinions on football than you so perhaps it's time to take a step back and give him a chance rather than jumping all over every thing.
You've never been wiling to give him a chance, he's smarmy after all.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 11:10 - Jan 21 with 2520 views | chrismakin |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 11:05 - Jan 21 by StokieBlue |
So you expect McKenna to just work with what he has?
Perhaps he doesn't rate those players or wants someone with different attributes? Perhaps he thinks those players aren't ready for his first team?
Perhaps he doesn't think we have issues in other areas or perhaps he's still working on deals in those areas?
In the end both McKenna and the neighbours cat have more coherent opinions on football than you so perhaps it's time to take a step back and give him a chance rather than jumping all over every thing.
You've never been wiling to give him a chance, he's smarmy after all.
SB |
I'm surprised cm has been seen as one which requires immediate strengthening yes. Not sure where I'm not giving KM a chance SB that's your own thought. This new signing may work well and we all applaud the loan. We will find out.
Clearly by the OP I'm not the only one surprised by the move. But not surprised it's my post specifically you pick out to reply to.
Again You have a certain rule for what opinion is allowed. According to your reply. You're not allowed to have an opinion on a signing, you should blind follow what KM does.. not sure that would work when people post their lineups for a weekend or form an opinion on a player.. that's what this place is for no? [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 11:20]
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 11:57 - Jan 21 with 2372 views | Horseboy |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 11:10 - Jan 21 by chrismakin |
I'm surprised cm has been seen as one which requires immediate strengthening yes. Not sure where I'm not giving KM a chance SB that's your own thought. This new signing may work well and we all applaud the loan. We will find out.
Clearly by the OP I'm not the only one surprised by the move. But not surprised it's my post specifically you pick out to reply to.
Again You have a certain rule for what opinion is allowed. According to your reply. You're not allowed to have an opinion on a signing, you should blind follow what KM does.. not sure that would work when people post their lineups for a weekend or form an opinion on a player.. that's what this place is for no? [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 11:20]
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On average one in three signings are a success. | | | |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:09 - Jan 21 with 2285 views | clive_baker |
I like a lot about Harper from what we saw of him. It wasn't working with Evans admittedly, but then a lot about that side wasn't working at the time. At the age he is, with the atleticism and energy he has I really had and still have hopes he could be be that central beast we seem to have lacked for years. Showed real promise going forward too in his fleeting opportunities. He was a regular for Birmingham in the Championship this time last year, he's clearly got something about him. Wouldn't be averse to seeing him and Morsy partnered together tbh. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:09 - Jan 21 with 2271 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 09:32 - Jan 21 by itfcjoe |
Idris has had 2 loans into League 2, he needs to be playing in this division - us being mid table in the third tier with this squad is an issue in that regard! |
Not sure we'd be keen to loan him out to a L1 side.
I think just getting game time is what matters, ideally with a strong L2 side. | |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:10 - Jan 21 with 2243 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 10:05 - Jan 21 by chrismakin |
This is my frustration with the new signing
I had hoped someone like KM would come in bring on the likes of Harper, idris etc rather than shopping at the first opportunity when ideally imo we have issues in other areas of the squad that need priority.
I appreciate what Herbz is saying. But we are a midtable league 1 side.. we shouldn't be looking to loan out players to midtable league 1 sides, they should be playing games here or being let go completely if they aren't making the grade.
Imo |
But all this is based on the presumption that Bakinson waltzes straight into the team or matchday squad.
Perhaps he is the cover? Or has been brought in to give other options? Just because a loan player is signed does not mean the manager has given up on the players already there. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:11 - Jan 21 with 2233 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 10:05 - Jan 21 by chrismakin |
This is my frustration with the new signing
I had hoped someone like KM would come in bring on the likes of Harper, idris etc rather than shopping at the first opportunity when ideally imo we have issues in other areas of the squad that need priority.
I appreciate what Herbz is saying. But we are a midtable league 1 side.. we shouldn't be looking to loan out players to midtable league 1 sides, they should be playing games here or being let go completely if they aren't making the grade.
Imo |
Every time someone signs someone complains "this isn't a priority." And every time I say the same thing - this signing doesn't prevent any other signings from happening. Signings don't happen in priority order, they happen when deals are able to be completed, for a variety of reasons.
Before Cook's 19 all came in people were fretting for the same reasons. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:13 - Jan 21 with 2198 views | chrismakin |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:10 - Jan 21 by OriginalMarkyP |
But all this is based on the presumption that Bakinson waltzes straight into the team or matchday squad.
Perhaps he is the cover? Or has been brought in to give other options? Just because a loan player is signed does not mean the manager has given up on the players already there. |
I somehow can't see him being happy to sit in the background of a league 1 club when he wasn't happy not to be playing for a champ side. Of course could be wrong. But I'd imagine we will see him in the lineup quite soon if not tomorrow. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 12:15]
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:15 - Jan 21 with 2186 views | Radlett_blue |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:10 - Jan 21 by OriginalMarkyP |
But all this is based on the presumption that Bakinson waltzes straight into the team or matchday squad.
Perhaps he is the cover? Or has been brought in to give other options? Just because a loan player is signed does not mean the manager has given up on the players already there. |
I hope he's been signed because McKenna thinks he is a player who can make a difference & not one of these regular, near pointless signings who clutter up an already bloated squad & make a few fleeting appearances from the bench. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:19 - Jan 21 with 2117 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:15 - Jan 21 by Radlett_blue |
I hope he's been signed because McKenna thinks he is a player who can make a difference & not one of these regular, near pointless signings who clutter up an already bloated squad & make a few fleeting appearances from the bench. |
Managers are greedy by nature.
Give them the option of two talented players in one position and they'll take it.
Give them the option of three and they'll take that too.
Cook and Ashton got too greedy and gourged themselves and we're still trying to sort the fallout of that.
I think KMcK will be a little more sensible than that. I hope he will anyway. | |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:19 - Jan 21 with 2123 views | hoppy |
Hopefully they're feeling up for the challenge of working harder to impress and earn their place ahead of someone just coming in. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:24 - Jan 21 with 2065 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:11 - Jan 21 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Every time someone signs someone complains "this isn't a priority." And every time I say the same thing - this signing doesn't prevent any other signings from happening. Signings don't happen in priority order, they happen when deals are able to be completed, for a variety of reasons.
Before Cook's 19 all came in people were fretting for the same reasons. |
Ah yes, this one again. Because those fretting that we were signing a lot of attacking players and needed to bring defenders in quickly have been proven spectacularly wrong, haven’t they? |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:35 - Jan 21 with 1995 views | FightingEssex |
We need to move the lot on, along with Nolan and Edwards, just wasting wages. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:36 - Jan 21 with 1991 views | cbower |
When Harper was playing, it was in a two with Evans and they were more often than not, completely overrun. Since the arrival of Morsy, Harper has barely had a look in in central midfield and there was talk of him playing no 10, but we are overstocked in that position as it is! I did think he might make his way back into the squad at least with us playing variations of set ups but with three in the midfield but that does not seem to be the case. Shame really, he seems to have all the attributes but the player that Bakinson purports to be is precisely what we had expected from Harper in the first place. For me, whilst players have to take responsibility for themselves, Cook is also to blame as Harper is just one of his signings that he simply mismanaged and played badly out of position - see also Fraser for example. |  |
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| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 13:02 - Jan 21 with 1887 views | RobTheMonk |
From what I've seen of Harper, he's technically very good but is prone to some brain fart passes. I think you could have him in a midfield three but not in a two.
El Miz needs to be playing games. A good ankle biter player with an eye for a shot. Another who I think would be better in a three than a two. Colchester loan would be good lol.
Carroll... Unfortunately looks off it at the moment. Looks short on confidence and lightweight. The game the other week when he had 30 yards of space to run into and turned backwards was a proper 'wtf are you doing?' lack of confidence moment.
We're still not sure what formation we're going to be implementing going forward. 3-5-2 suits our current squad but that is largely Cook's old squad. |  | | |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 13:19 - Jan 21 with 1771 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| So how are Harper, El Miz and Carrol feeling this morning... on 12:13 - Jan 21 by chrismakin |
I somehow can't see him being happy to sit in the background of a league 1 club when he wasn't happy not to be playing for a champ side. Of course could be wrong. But I'd imagine we will see him in the lineup quite soon if not tomorrow. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 12:15]
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The only two people who have said he wasn’t happy not playing at BC are Nigel Pearson and you.
And we’ve no idea what’s gone on between Pearson and him but this article is interesting.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/nigel-pearson-tyreeq-bakinson-brist |  |
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