| It's written into my managers contracts that... 22:18 - Feb 16 with 3467 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
...they have final sign off on any transfer.
Thought that was an interesting snippet from Mark Ashton. |  |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:21 - Feb 16 with 2663 views | J2BLUE |
Good to hear it but fairly obvious for those of us (including you) who didn't swallow the Bristol City bitter tears.
That's the way it works at the vast majority of clubs. There is input from others but people are rarely signed for a manager without their consent.
I wonder if those confidently stating that Cook did not sign certain players will now hold their hands up. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 8:35]
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:24 - Feb 16 with 2633 views | Churchman |
I thought so too and it directly contradicts some of the suggestions that were made on here. The who does what appears to be clear between them and that’s crucial. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 8:55]
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:24 - Feb 16 with 2619 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:21 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
Good to hear it but fairly obvious for those of us (including you) who didn't swallow the Bristol City bitter tears.
That's the way it works at the vast majority of clubs. There is input from others but people are rarely signed for a manager without their consent.
I wonder if those confidently stating that Cook did not sign certain players will now hold their hands up. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 8:35]
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I guess Cook signed an Evans contract, but if anything that would have given him more power not less.
Either way, Ashton has made it clear how he works. | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:27 - Feb 16 with 2581 views | J2BLUE |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:24 - Feb 16 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I guess Cook signed an Evans contract, but if anything that would have given him more power not less.
Either way, Ashton has made it clear how he works. |
Actually that is a very good point. It definitely wasn't the job Cook sign up for in fairness but I think it's safe to say players were not being signed for him without his consent. | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:31 - Feb 16 with 2546 views | FrimleyBlue |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:21 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
Good to hear it but fairly obvious for those of us (including you) who didn't swallow the Bristol City bitter tears.
That's the way it works at the vast majority of clubs. There is input from others but people are rarely signed for a manager without their consent.
I wonder if those confidently stating that Cook did not sign certain players will now hold their hands up. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 8:35]
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Nope as no one has said the managers don't have a say ( never saw the BC fan posts so maybe they did? ) . What has been said at least by me and which is also how it does work at some other clubs, manager/coach asks recruitment team to find a player for a position ( profile ) manager then agrees to said player joining from short list supplied. ( for example KM talked of Bakinson fitting profile. He met him for first time as KM confirmed after he had signed.
Happy for people to have their view. I'm happy and comfortable with mine. It doesn't matter either way as long as it works.
Let's be honest we had Hurst picking his and Lambert picking his.. can't get any worse lol. [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 22:37]
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:37 - Feb 16 with 2475 views | J2BLUE |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:31 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
Nope as no one has said the managers don't have a say ( never saw the BC fan posts so maybe they did? ) . What has been said at least by me and which is also how it does work at some other clubs, manager/coach asks recruitment team to find a player for a position ( profile ) manager then agrees to said player joining from short list supplied. ( for example KM talked of Bakinson fitting profile. He met him for first time as KM confirmed after he had signed.
Happy for people to have their view. I'm happy and comfortable with mine. It doesn't matter either way as long as it works.
Let's be honest we had Hurst picking his and Lambert picking his.. can't get any worse lol. [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 22:37]
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Swans in for Fraser supposedly by FrimleyBlue 25 Jan 2022 12:47Another example for me of a signing not chosen by the manager
Again it's not a negative way of recruiting its done all over the world. But it's something we haven't seen at town for a long while if ever and something to get used to.
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:41 - Feb 16 with 2440 views | Veggie |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:21 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
Good to hear it but fairly obvious for those of us (including you) who didn't swallow the Bristol City bitter tears.
That's the way it works at the vast majority of clubs. There is input from others but people are rarely signed for a manager without their consent.
I wonder if those confidently stating that Cook did not sign certain players will now hold their hands up. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 8:35]
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What was the ‘no recruitment room’ comment all about I wonder? |  | | |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:47 - Feb 16 with 2400 views | FrimleyBlue |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:37 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
Swans in for Fraser supposedly by FrimleyBlue 25 Jan 2022 12:47Another example for me of a signing not chosen by the manager
Again it's not a negative way of recruiting its done all over the world. But it's something we haven't seen at town for a long while if ever and something to get used to.
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Yeah and I stick to that J2. What I meant by chosen is Targeted by PC and wanted by PC specifically I don't see that he was. I do think PC asked for a creative midfielder and he was part of the short list supplied by Ashton and his recruitment team. Same as Edwards. Harper. Imo.
Fraser for me was the first signing that made me think about the recruitment set up. His signing when you look back made 0 sense to a strict PC formation. Again not an issue at all just a feeling
Again tho it's my opinion. It doesn't matter if anyone agrees with it. | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:48 - Feb 16 with 2392 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:31 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
Nope as no one has said the managers don't have a say ( never saw the BC fan posts so maybe they did? ) . What has been said at least by me and which is also how it does work at some other clubs, manager/coach asks recruitment team to find a player for a position ( profile ) manager then agrees to said player joining from short list supplied. ( for example KM talked of Bakinson fitting profile. He met him for first time as KM confirmed after he had signed.
Happy for people to have their view. I'm happy and comfortable with mine. It doesn't matter either way as long as it works.
Let's be honest we had Hurst picking his and Lambert picking his.. can't get any worse lol. [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 22:37]
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Quite a few have talked of "Ashton buys" v "Paul Cook buys" . | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:49 - Feb 16 with 2377 views | J2BLUE |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:47 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
Yeah and I stick to that J2. What I meant by chosen is Targeted by PC and wanted by PC specifically I don't see that he was. I do think PC asked for a creative midfielder and he was part of the short list supplied by Ashton and his recruitment team. Same as Edwards. Harper. Imo.
Fraser for me was the first signing that made me think about the recruitment set up. His signing when you look back made 0 sense to a strict PC formation. Again not an issue at all just a feeling
Again tho it's my opinion. It doesn't matter if anyone agrees with it. |
So did Cook sign off on Fraser in your opinion? | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:57 - Feb 16 with 2329 views | FrimleyBlue |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:49 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
So did Cook sign off on Fraser in your opinion? |
I personally don't think he had a choice not too unless he went at the time with no influential midfielder. He'd had offers on a handful of Wigan players rejected. Binned off our squad and needed help getting players in. So yes I think he signed it off without even actually thinking long term what was he actually going to do with him. All I will say is thank fk ashton does have his recruitment arm as I dread to think how our squad would have looked without it. [Post edited 16 Feb 2022 22:58]
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 07:29 - Feb 17 with 1999 views | Fixed_It |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:21 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
Good to hear it but fairly obvious for those of us (including you) who didn't swallow the Bristol City bitter tears.
That's the way it works at the vast majority of clubs. There is input from others but people are rarely signed for a manager without their consent.
I wonder if those confidently stating that Cook did not sign certain players will now hold their hands up. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 8:35]
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Bristol Rovers? That'll upset them - bravo! |  |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 07:54 - Feb 17 with 1945 views | WD19 |
If we are being pedantic, Ashton wasn't involved in the contract for Cook so it likely wouldn't have been written in to that one.
More importantly there is 'final say' and 'final say'. I read it as essentially a power of veto, which means that the manager will potentially have the choice between saying "no" and having no player versus saying a begrudging "OK, lets give it a try"....which may lead to a bloated and unbalanced squad with lots of spares they didn't particularly fancy. |  | | |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:34 - Feb 17 with 1850 views | PrideOfTheEast |
From a legal perspective it is a very odd thing to include in a contract - it gives so much scope for breach of terms and therefore for one party (the manager) to argue breach.
Have an unwritten agreement that the manager will have the final say, which I imagine plenty of clubs do, of course. |  | | |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:34 - Feb 17 with 1841 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:24 - Feb 16 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I guess Cook signed an Evans contract, but if anything that would have given him more power not less.
Either way, Ashton has made it clear how he works. |
Indeed. There is no way an Evans contract would contain a clause that favourable to the employee | | | |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:35 - Feb 17 with 1832 views | bournemouthblue |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 07:54 - Feb 17 by WD19 |
If we are being pedantic, Ashton wasn't involved in the contract for Cook so it likely wouldn't have been written in to that one.
More importantly there is 'final say' and 'final say'. I read it as essentially a power of veto, which means that the manager will potentially have the choice between saying "no" and having no player versus saying a begrudging "OK, lets give it a try"....which may lead to a bloated and unbalanced squad with lots of spares they didn't particularly fancy. |
I don't doubt that's the case but how much autonomy a manager has nowadays will vary greatly across clubs
I know nowadays, there are a lot of clubs almost with an entire transfer team and strategy which virtually supercedes the manager
I'm led to believe MM given his experience did quite a lot of the work for us though and was generally left to his own devices |  |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:35 - Feb 17 with 1830 views | J2BLUE |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 07:29 - Feb 17 by Fixed_It |
Bristol Rovers? That'll upset them - bravo! |
Oops! | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:48 - Feb 17 with 1784 views | Stadiumofdark |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 22:49 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
So did Cook sign off on Fraser in your opinion? |
Just pass him a spade.... |  | | |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:57 - Feb 17 with 1732 views | FrimleyBlue |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:48 - Feb 17 by Stadiumofdark |
Just pass him a spade.... |
If you think agreeing to signing a player is the same as actually choosing a player to sign that's up to you and you're entitled to that thought. I don't believe it's the same. So was and am happy with my response to J2 | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:13 - Feb 17 with 1703 views | BloomBlue |
Although surely that depends how this list of potential signings is complied.
It could be 'Manager here is the list of 5 players I want the club to sign which ones do you approve?' and if Manager doesn't approve any he goes away and selects another 5
Which is a big difference to a manager supplying the list of 5 players he wants |  | | |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:20 - Feb 17 with 1669 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 07:54 - Feb 17 by WD19 |
If we are being pedantic, Ashton wasn't involved in the contract for Cook so it likely wouldn't have been written in to that one.
More importantly there is 'final say' and 'final say'. I read it as essentially a power of veto, which means that the manager will potentially have the choice between saying "no" and having no player versus saying a begrudging "OK, lets give it a try"....which may lead to a bloated and unbalanced squad with lots of spares they didn't particularly fancy. |
Yes, I stated that yesterday. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 9:20]
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:22 - Feb 17 with 1647 views | Guthrum |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:34 - Feb 17 by PrideOfTheEast |
From a legal perspective it is a very odd thing to include in a contract - it gives so much scope for breach of terms and therefore for one party (the manager) to argue breach.
Have an unwritten agreement that the manager will have the final say, which I imagine plenty of clubs do, of course. |
Not sure it's that odd, in the sense of defined areas of responsibility. Indeed, it could be phrased as an assurance that players will never be foisted upon the Manager without his express approval.
It also shares the responsibility - the Manager cannot complain they never wanted any particular signing if they have had to formally approve each of them. |  |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:35 - Feb 17 with 1585 views | Guthrum |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:13 - Feb 17 by BloomBlue |
Although surely that depends how this list of potential signings is complied.
It could be 'Manager here is the list of 5 players I want the club to sign which ones do you approve?' and if Manager doesn't approve any he goes away and selects another 5
Which is a big difference to a manager supplying the list of 5 players he wants |
Tho all transfer wish lists will have an element of that. The players have to be realistic targets which the club can actually get. A Manager can demand Messi, but he is neither available nor achievable for a League One setup.
In addition, the Manager may not be the only person at the club with extensive football contacts*, who might be able to identify candidates whom nobody else has thought of, or have personal routes to access those players. Doubly so when we actually have a department devoted to that task, as mentioned in the interview.
Plus our current Gaffer does not have the same kind of roster of blokes who've played for him before and who can be drafted in again (tho there will be those he's spotted as Youths at Spurs and ManU).
* Admittedly, that's a situation we've got too used to over the last decade and a half. | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:49 - Feb 17 with 1531 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:13 - Feb 17 by BloomBlue |
Although surely that depends how this list of potential signings is complied.
It could be 'Manager here is the list of 5 players I want the club to sign which ones do you approve?' and if Manager doesn't approve any he goes away and selects another 5
Which is a big difference to a manager supplying the list of 5 players he wants |
If the manager supplied the entire list, that would be a terrible system. | |
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| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 09:50 - Feb 17 with 1523 views | HighgateBlue |
| It's written into my managers contracts that... on 08:34 - Feb 17 by PrideOfTheEast |
From a legal perspective it is a very odd thing to include in a contract - it gives so much scope for breach of terms and therefore for one party (the manager) to argue breach.
Have an unwritten agreement that the manager will have the final say, which I imagine plenty of clubs do, of course. |
No, 'from a legal perspective' it is standard.
It's common in managers' contracts. A manager is an employee. If that aspect of decision-making is not referred to in the contract, there is far more scope for dispute. There have been numerous cases of a manager claiming constructive dismissal when others have had the final say on transfers. The most notorious of which was perhaps that of Keegan winning a constructive dismissal claim for just this reason at Newcastle.
The first two paragraphs of this Guardian report on the Keegan case provide ample rationale for making it clear beyond doubt who has the final say on player transfers:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/oct/02/kevin-keegan-constructive-dismi
The suggestion of an unwritten agreement making things better is obviously ridiculous in employment law terms. Again that creates far more scope for dispute as to what was agreed. An employment that is oral is still enforceable. Writing it down just provides evidence of what was agreed. Why on earth would it be sensible to have an agreement that is not documented? |  | | |
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