| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... 14:23 - Feb 25 with 4775 views | unstableblue |
... the Snake Island 'heroes', the woman confronting the soldier, the car mown down by a missile carrier, the scenes of aggression...
now 18,000 machine guns distributed to Kiev citizens, instructions on molotov cocktails...
... I predict Russia is about to have its own Leningrad.... and i'm just not sure their troops have the stomach, nor the volumes for that?
One thing is for sure, there are going to be a lot of casualties.
70% of Ukrainians voted to join the EU; the Orange protests were mass and ousted a Russian puppet elected falsely. This is not a people who are Russian sympathisers or feel some allegiance to Moscow.
I just hope the citizens of St Petersburg and Moscow look past the state media, get out in numbers and defy the mass arrests, combine that with oligarchs/mafia turning on Putin |  |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:35 - Feb 25 with 1810 views | Guthrum |
I doubt any war crimes tribunal will get a look-in on what's happened in Ukraine. |  |
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| [Redacted] on 15:36 - Feb 25 with 1803 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:35 - Feb 25 by jeera |
Yes I've read it.
Ok, but no tongues on the first date. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:37 - Feb 25 with 1805 views | Coastalblue |
Seeing that video of that tank swerving to roll over a civilian vehicle made me feel first sick to my stomach, and secondly very, very angry.
I'm fairly certain that if I was witnessing that on the streets of London, outside my window my blood would run hot and I would want to do anything I could to hurt and potentially kill the invaders.
I cannot imagine what those people are going through, nobody should have to face that in the 21st Century, in Europe of all places. |  |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:44 - Feb 25 with 1777 views | bluelagos |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:35 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
I doubt any war crimes tribunal will get a look-in on what's happened in Ukraine. |
Why not? An ICC prosecutor has already stated he may investigate.
Any targeting of civilians is a war crime and would make those who do it subject to possible prosecution.
These war crimes are being videoed so there is plenty of evidence of war crimes taking place. |  |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:46 - Feb 25 with 1771 views | blueasfook |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:06 - Feb 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Russia are already attacking civilian targets. It's all over the news.
If this was happening in London I, as a civilian, would be looking to fight. |
You should read accounts of what the Red Army did once the war turned in their favour and they started to advance on Germany.
Extreme savagery. |  |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:54 - Feb 25 with 1731 views | Guthrum |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:44 - Feb 25 by bluelagos |
Why not? An ICC prosecutor has already stated he may investigate.
Any targeting of civilians is a war crime and would make those who do it subject to possible prosecution.
These war crimes are being videoed so there is plenty of evidence of war crimes taking place. |
Maybe so. But I can't see any of the perpetrators (let alone initiators) ending up stood in front of a court in The Hague.
Edit: Not without some really startling change in the world order. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 15:57]
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:02 - Feb 25 with 1707 views | DinDjarin |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:37 - Feb 25 by Coastalblue |
Seeing that video of that tank swerving to roll over a civilian vehicle made me feel first sick to my stomach, and secondly very, very angry.
I'm fairly certain that if I was witnessing that on the streets of London, outside my window my blood would run hot and I would want to do anything I could to hurt and potentially kill the invaders.
I cannot imagine what those people are going through, nobody should have to face that in the 21st Century, in Europe of all places. |
I see that video although no idea if Russian or Ukranian.
There is a lot of false image being shared around so its hard to verify what is fact or from another conflict somewhere else. |  | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:04 - Feb 25 with 1693 views | DinDjarin |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 15:46 - Feb 25 by blueasfook |
You should read accounts of what the Red Army did once the war turned in their favour and they started to advance on Germany.
Extreme savagery. |
Most of that was because of what the Germans done while advancing through Russia. And you are correct the Russians were as bad if not worse but the victors always write the history books.
Not sure the Russians would have the same grievances with Ukranian civvies, not on the level you mentioned at least. | | | |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:07 - Feb 25 with 1679 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:02 - Feb 25 by DinDjarin |
I see that video although no idea if Russian or Ukranian.
There is a lot of false image being shared around so its hard to verify what is fact or from another conflict somewhere else. |
It's obviously an Ukrainian tank because the Russians are peacekeeping. |  | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:53 - Feb 25 with 1619 views | DinDjarin |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:07 - Feb 25 by Eireannach_gorm |
It's obviously an Ukrainian tank because the Russians are peacekeeping. |
Various reports coming out that it was 1 of 2 Ukranian vehicles under fire that lost control and watching the video it does seem to lose control.
The vehicle is a Strela-10 model which is in use by the Ukranian forces and in an area where there yet no Russians.
Best wait for the facts either way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 16:57]
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:58 - Feb 25 with 1610 views | Guthrum |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:02 - Feb 25 by DinDjarin |
I see that video although no idea if Russian or Ukranian.
There is a lot of false image being shared around so its hard to verify what is fact or from another conflict somewhere else. |
I'm slightly dubious for a different reason. Watching the video and looking back along the track-marks, I wonder if it's the case that the driver of the armoured vehicle has cornered badly, lost control, skidded and accidentally ploughed over the car.
Given the amount of traffic on the road (from that and other clips of the same incident), it seems odd that they singled out that car if done deliberately. Also, if there was some kind of initial skid or collision with street furniture, that might explain why a number of people started filming.
Of course, the armoured vehicle simply reversing back and driving off without checking on the car's occupant(s) is indefensible. Also, with a comment made by someone in Belarus a few days ago*, the military driver may have been drunk.
* 'They like drinking and selling their diesel' | |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:00 - Feb 25 with 1596 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not offended, I just disagree with you. No I haven't had training (bit of rifle range stuff but not sure that counts for much!) I doubt most of the Ukrainian civilians have either, hence the term 'civilians.' That won't stop them fighting to defend their country, and it wouldn't me either.
Send your family out (or get them out), but I'd be right back in there. What history teaches you it's best to run away and leave your country to be taken over? I think the French resistance, for example, would argue otherwise. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:02 - Feb 25 with 1584 views | jeera |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:00 - Feb 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not offended, I just disagree with you. No I haven't had training (bit of rifle range stuff but not sure that counts for much!) I doubt most of the Ukrainian civilians have either, hence the term 'civilians.' That won't stop them fighting to defend their country, and it wouldn't me either.
Send your family out (or get them out), but I'd be right back in there. What history teaches you it's best to run away and leave your country to be taken over? I think the French resistance, for example, would argue otherwise. |
I've held a few bottles in my time but not sure that counts as training! |  |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:04 - Feb 25 with 1577 views | DinDjarin |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:58 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
I'm slightly dubious for a different reason. Watching the video and looking back along the track-marks, I wonder if it's the case that the driver of the armoured vehicle has cornered badly, lost control, skidded and accidentally ploughed over the car.
Given the amount of traffic on the road (from that and other clips of the same incident), it seems odd that they singled out that car if done deliberately. Also, if there was some kind of initial skid or collision with street furniture, that might explain why a number of people started filming.
Of course, the armoured vehicle simply reversing back and driving off without checking on the car's occupant(s) is indefensible. Also, with a comment made by someone in Belarus a few days ago*, the military driver may have been drunk.
* 'They like drinking and selling their diesel' |
Reports I have read suggest recently armed Ukranian militia opened fire on the vehicles believing them to be Russian hence the speed and loss of control.
The civilian survived which is the main thing. Not sure how though!! [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 17:05]
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:08 - Feb 25 with 1560 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:02 - Feb 25 by jeera |
I've held a few bottles in my time but not sure that counts as training! |
I'm brilliant at paper cuts, have a lot of expertise in that and they hurt like hell. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| [Redacted] on 17:24 - Feb 25 with 1519 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:00 - Feb 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not offended, I just disagree with you. No I haven't had training (bit of rifle range stuff but not sure that counts for much!) I doubt most of the Ukrainian civilians have either, hence the term 'civilians.' That won't stop them fighting to defend their country, and it wouldn't me either.
Send your family out (or get them out), but I'd be right back in there. What history teaches you it's best to run away and leave your country to be taken over? I think the French resistance, for example, would argue otherwise. |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:26 - Feb 25 with 1512 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 16:53 - Feb 25 by DinDjarin |
Various reports coming out that it was 1 of 2 Ukranian vehicles under fire that lost control and watching the video it does seem to lose control.
The vehicle is a Strela-10 model which is in use by the Ukranian forces and in an area where there yet no Russians.
Best wait for the facts either way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 16:57]
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The firing appeared to have stopped when it ran over the car.
Thanks for putting me right about the Russian Skreala 10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K35_Strela-10
What area was it? | | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:32 - Feb 25 with 1492 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
They have invited Europeans to go and help defend Kyiv if you fancy it. |  |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:33 - Feb 25 with 1482 views | DinDjarin |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:26 - Feb 25 by Eireannach_gorm |
The firing appeared to have stopped when it ran over the car.
Thanks for putting me right about the Russian Skreala 10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K35_Strela-10
What area was it? |
Think they were moving away from the fire hence the speed and loss of control on the corner.
Obolon suburb of Kyiv | | | |
| This from Monbiot is seering and true on 17:47 - Feb 25 with 1452 views | Mercian |
| This from Monbiot is seering and true on 14:44 - Feb 25 by unstableblue |
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Tucker Carlson is a first rate pr^^k. He after Trump is possibly responsible for more Covid deaths in The US than any other. He supports Russia because they only "recognise two genders" and "Don't eat dogs" A thoroughly nasty piece of work. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 17:48]
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:51 - Feb 25 with 1432 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:33 - Feb 25 by DinDjarin |
Think they were moving away from the fire hence the speed and loss of control on the corner.
Obolon suburb of Kyiv |
I think they must have lost control in the fog if war. Thank goodness the driver survived, miraculous. | |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:51 - Feb 25 with 1430 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:33 - Feb 25 by DinDjarin |
Think they were moving away from the fire hence the speed and loss of control on the corner.
Obolon suburb of Kyiv |
I'm a bit confused. If this is a Ukrainian military vehicle and the Russians were not in the area, who was shooting at it? | | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:55 - Feb 25 with 1410 views | Coastalblue |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:51 - Feb 25 by Eireannach_gorm |
I'm a bit confused. If this is a Ukrainian military vehicle and the Russians were not in the area, who was shooting at it? |
Presumably a very jumpy militia who just saw an armoured vehicle. | |
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| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:57 - Feb 25 with 1392 views | Mercian |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 17:55 - Feb 25 by Coastalblue |
Presumably a very jumpy militia who just saw an armoured vehicle. |
I think he was being sarcastic mate. | | | |
| Ukrainian citizens are getting galvanised by acts of defiance and atrocity... on 18:04 - Feb 25 with 1377 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not sure the relevance of your first bit.
"Survival over bravado"?!?! That's rather insulting to people wanting to defend their country, to boil it down to just bravado.
I mentioned the French Resistance in WW2, which you haven't commented on. Was that just "bravado"?
I take your point that untrained people with weapons can and would cause problems. But on balance I can understand healthy men wanting to stay and fight for their home. And I think "more harm than use" may be overstating things. Again, were the French Resistance more harm than use?
In an ideal situation you wouldn't have civilians taking up arms, of course not. But this isn't an ideal situation. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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