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For the cretins defending him, claiming that he is not a treacherous self serving arshole, then explain his nonsense about Nato and the EU being responsible for Russia attacking Ukraine.
Ukraine is a sovereign state and should be free to do as it pleases, with regard to who it aligns with. Was that not what the Russians told Farage to say ?
Note how the righties are defending Putin. Trump, Fox News and Farage jumping now their paymaster has cracked the whip.
This latter day William Joyce told us Russia would not attack the Ukraine. Nato is not the EU, but it does not stop this traitor from speaking as if they were..
Farages sort were interned during WW2, and the French gave them and their kind short shrift after the war, as we did with Joyce, and Italy did with Mussolini.
Neither they nor I can help how things “come across” to people wearing blinkers.
Putin is an awful individual and of course the invasion is unjustified. But you seem to have no concept that pacifism and de-escalation starts at home.
We need to be a lot better given our recent record. But of course you almost certainly don’t see that.
Whilst Anti War ≠Anti West, it always ends up like that, always.
Israel gets a million more times attention with regards to what it does to Palestine opposed to what Russia does, or what China continues to do.
Surely looking at Putin shows that it isn't possible to de-escalate all conflicts, how do you de-escalate it? Just let him have the Ukraine? Then what - Russia won;'t be happy until the old USSR is all back under it's control. How can that be de escalated?
Those who want everything de-escalated may have good intentions, but they end up with their own biases, and it's just not realistic with humankind. De escalation basically means appease bullies, and you can't appease a bully because all it does is see them wanting more.
Look at Hitler when he tried to fight on both Eastern and Western fronts on WW2, Putin cares not a jot for the people of Russia, he'll send them to their deaths in their thousands.
EDIT - And to go back to thread you posted by CC, she notes that the Skripal poisoining was a military act on our shores, and the reaction from the Labour front bench at that time was naive at best, compliant at worst - neither a good look
NATO has plenty of blood on it’s hands in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan. It is also failing to react to conflicts in places such as Myanmar.
There is a lot to be said and criticise in general, even if justified in existence time to time.
I’d like to live in a world where everyone is happy and gets along, which requires wider long term considerations of power structure in all forms. That’s how we get there.
That just seems a naive view to me. Putin would probably have made this move regardless of NATO. Indeed it’s quite possible he’s done this BECAUSE Ukraine are not in NATO. Soem people just want to watch the world burn and all that.
One could assume Corbyn’s pacifist ideals would have seen him throw the Ukrainians under a bus by refusing to supply weapons or impose any sanctions “to de-escalate”.
That just seems a naive view to me. Putin would probably have made this move regardless of NATO. Indeed it’s quite possible he’s done this BECAUSE Ukraine are not in NATO. Soem people just want to watch the world burn and all that.
One could assume Corbyn’s pacifist ideals would have seen him throw the Ukrainians under a bus by refusing to supply weapons or impose any sanctions “to de-escalate”.
Military escalation he’d have been against all along, but why would you assume he wouldn’t push for sanctions? He was pushing for them against Russia years ago before they became suddenly popular in the last week.
That just seems a naive view to me. Putin would probably have made this move regardless of NATO. Indeed it’s quite possible he’s done this BECAUSE Ukraine are not in NATO. Soem people just want to watch the world burn and all that.
One could assume Corbyn’s pacifist ideals would have seen him throw the Ukrainians under a bus by refusing to supply weapons or impose any sanctions “to de-escalate”.
Corbyn has been vocally active in sanctions for years, as someone already said.
Arguably as PM his network of disinfo and fifth columns would either have dead tentacles in the UK by now.
To talk about things like this, you need a factual grasp of recent political history I don't think you have, based on the fact you think he'd refuse to sanction anyone.
Corbyn has been vocally active in sanctions for years, as someone already said.
Arguably as PM his network of disinfo and fifth columns would either have dead tentacles in the UK by now.
To talk about things like this, you need a factual grasp of recent political history I don't think you have, based on the fact you think he'd refuse to sanction anyone.
That’s only half of it addressed though… they can’t defend themselves with sanctions.
Where do they think Putin is justified invading Ukraine?
You can believe Putin is very dangerous but the more hawkish NATO figures are a threat too – particularly because it’s Putin on the other side. And the ramping up of tension over the past decade or more hasn’t helped.
It would be much better if the spheres of influence were more civilian and democratic rather than military and economic. I don’t think that’s a particularly extreme view – in fact, it’s eminently more sensible.
"Where do they think Putin is justified in invading Ukraine"?
The Tories are awash with Russian money because they are greedy and think they can control them and that they only want a it of lobbying when it has always been more
Corbyn, and his former leadership team, are incredibly naive with regards to Russia, and their anti-West, anti-Imperial world view means that they can't help but think the person attacking the West is justified in doing so, even when that person is a madman.
Which one is more damaging? At the moment probably the Tory one as they are the one sin power - but if Corbyn was in Number 10 when all this was going on it would be terrifying
The irony of course is that Putin is the world's biggest imperialist, yet Stop the War happily paints "NATO expansion" as the aggressor and not his regime.
The irony of course is that Putin is the world's biggest imperialist, yet Stop the War happily paints "NATO expansion" as the aggressor and not his regime.
Another radical centrist hot take.
That’s b@ll@cks. There’s universal condemnation of Putin’s aggression and the Russian invasion from STW.
They’re certainly also condemning NATO’s role in building up tension. As you’d also expect from an anti-war movement.
That’s b@ll@cks. There’s universal condemnation of Putin’s aggression and the Russian invasion from STW.
They’re certainly also condemning NATO’s role in building up tension. As you’d also expect from an anti-war movement.
Why the need to lie about them?
Such a strong condemnation of Putin's aggression here, a real focal point of their statement:
Stop the War condemns the movement of Russian forces into Ukraine and urges that they immediately withdraw. We call for an immediate ceasefire alongside the resumption of diplomatic negotiations to resolve the crisis.
This dispute could and should be resolved peacefully, and that remains the only basis for a lasting settlement, rather than the imposition of military solutions. That it has not been resolved is not, however, the responsibility of the Russian or Ukrainian governments alone.
The conflict is the product of thirty years of failed policies, including the expansion of NATO and US hegemony at the expense of other countries as well as major wars of aggression by the USA, Britain and other NATO powers which have undermined international law and the United Nations.
The British government has played a provocative role in the present crisis, talking up war, decrying diplomacy as appeasement and escalating arms supplies and military deployments to Eastern Europe.
If there is to be a return to diplomacy, as there should be, the British government should pledge to oppose any further eastward expansion of NATO and should encourage a return to the Minsk-2 agreement, already signed by both sides, by all parties as a basis for ending the crisis in relations between Ukraine and Russia.
Beyond that, there now needs to be a unified effort to develop pan-European security arrangements which meet the needs of all states, something that should have been done when the Warsaw Pact was wound up at the end of the Cold War. The alternative is endless great power conflict with all the attendant waste of resources and danger of bloodshed and destruction.
We send our solidarity to all those campaigning for an end to the war, often under very difficult conditions, in Russia and Ukraine. Stop the War can best support them by demanding a change in Britain’s own policy, which can be seen to have failed.
Such a strong condemnation of Putin's aggression here, a real focal point of their statement:
Stop the War condemns the movement of Russian forces into Ukraine and urges that they immediately withdraw. We call for an immediate ceasefire alongside the resumption of diplomatic negotiations to resolve the crisis.
This dispute could and should be resolved peacefully, and that remains the only basis for a lasting settlement, rather than the imposition of military solutions. That it has not been resolved is not, however, the responsibility of the Russian or Ukrainian governments alone.
The conflict is the product of thirty years of failed policies, including the expansion of NATO and US hegemony at the expense of other countries as well as major wars of aggression by the USA, Britain and other NATO powers which have undermined international law and the United Nations.
The British government has played a provocative role in the present crisis, talking up war, decrying diplomacy as appeasement and escalating arms supplies and military deployments to Eastern Europe.
If there is to be a return to diplomacy, as there should be, the British government should pledge to oppose any further eastward expansion of NATO and should encourage a return to the Minsk-2 agreement, already signed by both sides, by all parties as a basis for ending the crisis in relations between Ukraine and Russia.
Beyond that, there now needs to be a unified effort to develop pan-European security arrangements which meet the needs of all states, something that should have been done when the Warsaw Pact was wound up at the end of the Cold War. The alternative is endless great power conflict with all the attendant waste of resources and danger of bloodshed and destruction.
We send our solidarity to all those campaigning for an end to the war, often under very difficult conditions, in Russia and Ukraine. Stop the War can best support them by demanding a change in Britain’s own policy, which can be seen to have failed.
-My considered opinion:
Stop the War condemns the movement of Russian forces into Ukraine and urges that they immediately withdraw. We call for an immediate ceasefire alongside the resumption of diplomatic negotiations to resolve the crisis.
- fair
This dispute could and should be resolved peacefully, and that remains the only basis for a lasting settlement, rather than the imposition of military solutions. That it has not been resolved is not, however, the responsibility of the Russian or Ukrainian governments alone.
- Just Russia's responsibility, as the aggressor
The conflict is the product of thirty years of failed policies, including the expansion of NATO and US hegemony at the expense of other countries as well as major wars of aggression by the USA, Britain and other NATO powers which have undermined international law and the United Nations.
- Bollox.
The British government has played a provocative role in the present crisis, talking up war, decrying diplomacy as appeasement and escalating arms supplies and military deployments to Eastern Europe.
- Absolute bollox
If there is to be a return to diplomacy, as there should be, the British government should pledge to oppose any further eastward expansion of NATO and should encourage a return to the Minsk-2 agreement, already signed by both sides, by all parties as a basis for ending the crisis in relations between Ukraine and Russia.
- Not written by a Ukrainian.
Beyond that, there now needs to be a unified effort to develop pan-European security arrangements which meet the needs of all states, something that should have been done when the Warsaw Pact was wound up at the end of the Cold War. The alternative is endless great power conflict with all the attendant waste of resources and danger of bloodshed and destruction.
- Fair
We send our solidarity to all those campaigning for an end to the war, often under very difficult conditions, in Russia and Ukraine. Stop the War can best support them by demanding a change in Britain’s own policy, which can be seen to have failed.
- 1st half fair, 2nd half bollox.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Bit bold to have a forced block put on so I can't see your content and then post this (I only saw this due to being logged out and I have no one on my ignore list).
Not sure if Phil decided to do this on his own accord but I doubt it. It was almost certainly requested.
Either way, he's p1ssing on mods backs and claiming it's raining over and over to paint posters in a certain light that entertains his endless need to never admit fault or grow. Many posters see through it but the board mods don't.
Bit bold to have a forced block put on so I can't see your content and then post this (I only saw this due to being logged out and I have no one on my ignore list).
Not sure if Phil decided to do this on his own accord but I doubt it. It was almost certainly requested.
Either way, he's p1ssing on mods backs and claiming it's raining over and over to paint posters in a certain light that entertains his endless need to never admit fault or grow. Many posters see through it but the board mods don't.
Anyway, when I took a look at it, this is the all-important context: it’s not the context of military aggression in Crimea but a response to the vote afterwards where the majority ethnic Russians in Crimea voted to be a part of Russia. Not the destabilising military force or Putin’s general aggression and meddling which the author condemned.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree with the author’s conclusion that Russia edge the discussion just because the Crimeans want it. I’d give that slight advantage the other way to NATO although still with no doubt that NATO are part of the problem not the solution.
Anyway, when I took a look at it, this is the all-important context: it’s not the context of military aggression in Crimea but a response to the vote afterwards where the majority ethnic Russians in Crimea voted to be a part of Russia. Not the destabilising military force or Putin’s general aggression and meddling which the author condemned.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree with the author’s conclusion that Russia edge the discussion just because the Crimeans want it. I’d give that slight advantage the other way to NATO although still with no doubt that NATO are part of the problem not the solution.
Such a strong condemnation of Putin's aggression here, a real focal point of their statement:
Stop the War condemns the movement of Russian forces into Ukraine and urges that they immediately withdraw. We call for an immediate ceasefire alongside the resumption of diplomatic negotiations to resolve the crisis.
This dispute could and should be resolved peacefully, and that remains the only basis for a lasting settlement, rather than the imposition of military solutions. That it has not been resolved is not, however, the responsibility of the Russian or Ukrainian governments alone.
The conflict is the product of thirty years of failed policies, including the expansion of NATO and US hegemony at the expense of other countries as well as major wars of aggression by the USA, Britain and other NATO powers which have undermined international law and the United Nations.
The British government has played a provocative role in the present crisis, talking up war, decrying diplomacy as appeasement and escalating arms supplies and military deployments to Eastern Europe.
If there is to be a return to diplomacy, as there should be, the British government should pledge to oppose any further eastward expansion of NATO and should encourage a return to the Minsk-2 agreement, already signed by both sides, by all parties as a basis for ending the crisis in relations between Ukraine and Russia.
Beyond that, there now needs to be a unified effort to develop pan-European security arrangements which meet the needs of all states, something that should have been done when the Warsaw Pact was wound up at the end of the Cold War. The alternative is endless great power conflict with all the attendant waste of resources and danger of bloodshed and destruction.
We send our solidarity to all those campaigning for an end to the war, often under very difficult conditions, in Russia and Ukraine. Stop the War can best support them by demanding a change in Britain’s own policy, which can be seen to have failed.
That’s fair enough. I agree with that.
No support for Putin there, and sufficiently aware of the overall context and thus critical of NATO’s role. A NATO they can lobby to avoid conflicts and wars, unlike Putin.
Like most things in life, the context is not black and white or good vs. bad. And ultimately STW’s main concern is for the ordinary people and their safety that these military interventions and posturing jeopardise.
No support for Putin there, and sufficiently aware of the overall context and thus critical of NATO’s role. A NATO they can lobby to avoid conflicts and wars, unlike Putin.
Like most things in life, the context is not black and white or good vs. bad. And ultimately STW’s main concern is for the ordinary people and their safety that these military interventions and posturing jeopardise.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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