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I was of the opinion that we should not get involved as it is non nato country and also (and probably more importantly) Putin is a nutcase and there is a real risk of a nuclear expansion
But...I think we need to get involved now, we simply cannot watch this happen.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:43 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan
I've changed my mind.
I was of the opinion that we should not get involved as it is non nato country and also (and probably more importantly) Putin is a nutcase and there is a real risk of a nuclear expansion
But...I think we need to get involved now, we simply cannot watch this happen.
Yeah I was beginning to wonder what in reality the tipping point is.
I know it's not genocide of the Srebrenica or Rwanda type but flattening entire cities at the loss of thousands of innocent lives can't be too far off.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:43 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan
I've changed my mind.
I was of the opinion that we should not get involved as it is non nato country and also (and probably more importantly) Putin is a nutcase and there is a real risk of a nuclear expansion
But...I think we need to get involved now, we simply cannot watch this happen.
I feel the same.
I know people say emotions are getting in the way of sense, but we have emotions don't we.
How could anyone not feel emotional and upset and angry.
But I do acknowledge it's big of me because I'm ok to take the chance sitting here, whereas people with little children will understandably want them to be safe first and foremost and be afraid of any potential attack here.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:47 - Mar 9 by belgablue
Yeah I was beginning to wonder what in reality the tipping point is.
I know it's not genocide of the Srebrenica or Rwanda type but flattening entire cities at the loss of thousands of innocent lives can't be too far off.
I feel Putin is doing this to goad the west into military action because his war isn't going well. I'll sound like I have a heart of stone, but we musn't rise to it.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:50 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
I feel Putin is doing this to goad the west into military action because his war isn't going well. I'll sound like I have a heart of stone, but we musn't rise to it.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:50 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
I feel Putin is doing this to goad the west into military action because his war isn't going well. I'll sound like I have a heart of stone, but we musn't rise to it.
I'm with you I'm afraid. Putin wants a hot war with the west. His USSR ideology demands it. I have a 14 year old lad, who is terrified.
What has become clear through this, is if you have a nuclear 'deterrent' and you act as though you are prepared to use it, you can do whatever you like, up to and including war crimes.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:56 - Mar 9 by jeera
At what point does the goading work?
I don't think it's goading, but worried at the number of miscalculations the Russians seem to have made about this whole mess from sanctions to taking Kiev in two days to logistics etc.. What will be the next miscalculation?
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:56 - Mar 9 by Cheltenham_Blue
I'm with you I'm afraid. Putin wants a hot war with the west. His USSR ideology demands it. I have a 14 year old lad, who is terrified.
What has become clear through this, is if you have a nuclear 'deterrent' and you act as though you are prepared to use it, you can do whatever you like, up to and including war crimes.
I feel for your lad. I remember experiencing the same fear as a kid in the 80s after watching a Newsround about nuclear war.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:50 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
I feel Putin is doing this to goad the west into military action because his war isn't going well. I'll sound like I have a heart of stone, but we musn't rise to it.
I'll stand by my original interpretation of what was going on. The readying of the nuclear forces, shelling of refugee corridors and now this despicable atrocity are all to bring pressure to get this ended.
A deal will be done. The "independent" conclaves will become Russian, Ukraine will agree not to join NATO, Russia won't default on international debts and Germany will have central heating next winter.
In exchange Ukraine will be allowed to join the EU.
A win for Putin in his (heavily censored) homeland.
A result of sorts, and hope of a better future, for Zelensky and Ukraine.
A nuclear war is averted, and the global capitalist machine (powered by fossil fuels) grinds on.
And the Oligarchs will be back at The Dorchester for a convivial Christmas fundraiser for the Tory party.
Much as it is a disgusting, sickening prospect, it is actually the best we can hope for.
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Targeting hospitals now? on 17:07 - Mar 9 with 1866 views
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:00 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
Honestly not sure, but if things go badly, we could be talking about multiple children's hospitals being wiped out in an instance.
It is natural to want to protect ourselves and our own.
But also at some point people have to risk themselves in order to do the right thing.
Otherwise no war would ever have been fought ever and every bully that ever lived would have just helped themselves without retribution.
The world stood by for too long as Jewish people were annihilated. The inevitable happened anyway so surely it's best to jump in whilst some can still be saved, even at personal cost?
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:03 - Mar 9 by ArnoldMoorhen
I'll stand by my original interpretation of what was going on. The readying of the nuclear forces, shelling of refugee corridors and now this despicable atrocity are all to bring pressure to get this ended.
A deal will be done. The "independent" conclaves will become Russian, Ukraine will agree not to join NATO, Russia won't default on international debts and Germany will have central heating next winter.
In exchange Ukraine will be allowed to join the EU.
A win for Putin in his (heavily censored) homeland.
A result of sorts, and hope of a better future, for Zelensky and Ukraine.
A nuclear war is averted, and the global capitalist machine (powered by fossil fuels) grinds on.
And the Oligarchs will be back at The Dorchester for a convivial Christmas fundraiser for the Tory party.
Much as it is a disgusting, sickening prospect, it is actually the best we can hope for.
Good post. and for what's worth, agree that I can't see much of a better outcome.
I'm aware we're all potentially under the influence of war propaganda, but that said, it does seem possible that the Ukrainians might even push the Russians back, but then what happens? I think WOMD would follow , at least in the Ukraine. so yeah, no good outcomes, except maybe a final spur to get off fosil fuel purely out of security of supply concerns.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:07 - Mar 9 by jeera
It is natural to want to protect ourselves and our own.
But also at some point people have to risk themselves in order to do the right thing.
Otherwise no war would ever have been fought ever and every bully that ever lived would have just helped themselves without retribution.
The world stood by for too long as Jewish people were annihilated. The inevitable happened anyway so surely it's best to jump in whilst some can still be saved, even at personal cost?
[Post edited 9 Mar 2022 17:08]
I do see the logic of your argument, especially the final paragraph. Just not sure we're at that all of nothing point yet, again as harsh as that sounds.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:03 - Mar 9 by ArnoldMoorhen
I'll stand by my original interpretation of what was going on. The readying of the nuclear forces, shelling of refugee corridors and now this despicable atrocity are all to bring pressure to get this ended.
A deal will be done. The "independent" conclaves will become Russian, Ukraine will agree not to join NATO, Russia won't default on international debts and Germany will have central heating next winter.
In exchange Ukraine will be allowed to join the EU.
A win for Putin in his (heavily censored) homeland.
A result of sorts, and hope of a better future, for Zelensky and Ukraine.
A nuclear war is averted, and the global capitalist machine (powered by fossil fuels) grinds on.
And the Oligarchs will be back at The Dorchester for a convivial Christmas fundraiser for the Tory party.
Much as it is a disgusting, sickening prospect, it is actually the best we can hope for.
I think the best we can hope for is that Putin saves us all the time and skips straight to the bit where he goes to his bunker with a bottle of vodka and a cyanide pill. But I'm not hopeful.
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Targeting hospitals now? on 17:12 - Mar 9 with 1825 views
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:03 - Mar 9 by ArnoldMoorhen
I'll stand by my original interpretation of what was going on. The readying of the nuclear forces, shelling of refugee corridors and now this despicable atrocity are all to bring pressure to get this ended.
A deal will be done. The "independent" conclaves will become Russian, Ukraine will agree not to join NATO, Russia won't default on international debts and Germany will have central heating next winter.
In exchange Ukraine will be allowed to join the EU.
A win for Putin in his (heavily censored) homeland.
A result of sorts, and hope of a better future, for Zelensky and Ukraine.
A nuclear war is averted, and the global capitalist machine (powered by fossil fuels) grinds on.
And the Oligarchs will be back at The Dorchester for a convivial Christmas fundraiser for the Tory party.
Much as it is a disgusting, sickening prospect, it is actually the best we can hope for.
I'm not sure I agree with much of that, and as an aside, I don't think Ukraine would even qualify for The EU
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:50 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
I feel Putin is doing this to goad the west into military action because his war isn't going well. I'll sound like I have a heart of stone, but we musn't rise to it.
I'm inclined to agree.
Hopefully the sanctions against Russia have enough of an impact that they're no longer in much of a position to fund this military action, and they're left with little choice but to de-escalated this abhorrent attack on Ukraine pronto. Failing that, that they have enough of an impact where it at least tips the balance in favour of 'the west' should there be full on and prolongued warfare between the 2.
It's so difficult. The prospect of being at war with Russia is absolutely frightening, we would no doubt be on the receiving end of real military aggression, potentially nuclear. But at what point is the moral obligation to get involved too great? For me, the approach thus far is the right one, put pressure on by uniting in the west to absolutely obliterate Russia in the purse and continue to support Ukraine with weapons. I don't think there's a viable option beyond that.
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:11 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
I do see the logic of your argument, especially the final paragraph. Just not sure we're at that all of nothing point yet, again as harsh as that sounds.
Please don't think I'm trying to be clever let alone arguing.
My head is swimming from that article and I'm far from thinking straight, let alone calmly and calculatingly.
If I'd been in charge I'd have probably got us all killed in the first week.
This level of evil is beyond all our comprehension.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:43 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan
I've changed my mind.
I was of the opinion that we should not get involved as it is non nato country and also (and probably more importantly) Putin is a nutcase and there is a real risk of a nuclear expansion
But...I think we need to get involved now, we simply cannot watch this happen.
Saudi bomb hospitals in the Yemen all the time. Guess they’re our mates though. Weird how it doesn’t receive the same coverage. For the hard of thinking at the back; this is awful and Putin is either a maniac or does not have control of his forces anymore.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Targeting hospitals now? on 17:15 - Mar 9 by jeera
Please don't think I'm trying to be clever let alone arguing.
My head is swimming from that article and I'm far from thinking straight, let alone calmly and calculatingly.
If I'd been in charge I'd have probably got us all killed in the first week.
This level of evil is beyond all our comprehension.
No worries mr - its not reading like that. Its horrendous what's happening - I can hardly believe we're at this point. Seriously considering not watching news for a while - its just too much: ignorance and denial feel like decent options.
Edit: sorry, its all very well me saying that, I don;' live in Ukraine.
[Post edited 9 Mar 2022 17:23]
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:50 - Mar 9 by giant_stow
I feel Putin is doing this to goad the west into military action because his war isn't going well. I'll sound like I have a heart of stone, but we musn't rise to it.
There should be no British servicemen coming home in coffins.
Targeting hospitals now? on 16:43 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan
I've changed my mind.
I was of the opinion that we should not get involved as it is non nato country and also (and probably more importantly) Putin is a nutcase and there is a real risk of a nuclear expansion
But...I think we need to get involved now, we simply cannot watch this happen.
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