| Medieval Siege 08:41 - Apr 9 with 1198 views | Churchman |
The assault on Mariupol goes on.
Putin demands surrender to end the shelling. His deformed logic says the Ukrainians have brought misery upon themselves by not bending the knee. This form of assault and threat goes back through the ages to Caesar and way beyond. It was very much medieval convention too (e.g. 100 Years War) that if a town didn’t surrender immediately it would be sacked, the residents raped, massacred, carted off not least as a warning to the next town.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61035565
The only thing left of Mariupol after Putin has captured it and cleansed it will be the survivors’ tragic testimonies such as the attached link. After the truth has been re-engineered and people are tired, will the poor survivors be believed or taken seriously or will the only objective to be to forget it? I wouldn’t like to say.
On what the Russians have done in Mariupol alone this is a crime against humanity as far as I’m concerned. It’s as simple as that. Putin has to be held to account, regardless of the surrender agreement when it comes.
The only way to do it is to kill him, which is just about impossible. Alternatively isolate his country until there’s real change and they’ve paid for what they’ve done in Ukraine and other places.
[Post edited 9 Apr 2022 8:43]
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| Medieval Siege on 08:49 - Apr 9 with 1155 views | WeWereZombies |
If you can get to him to kill him then you can get to him to capture him. Putin needs to be put through a complete, exhaustive and comprehensive trial so that everyone, especially Russians, is left in no doubt about the extent of his crime and the circumstances that have allowed him to fester. [Post edited 9 Apr 2022 9:00]
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| Medieval Siege on 09:00 - Apr 9 with 1131 views | Churchman |
| Medieval Siege on 08:49 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
If you can get to him to kill him then you can get to him to capture him. Putin needs to be put through a complete, exhaustive and comprehensive trial so that everyone, especially Russians, is left in no doubt about the extent of his crime and the circumstances that have allowed him to fester. [Post edited 9 Apr 2022 9:00]
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Sadly I don’t think he’s ever been more popular in his own country or more secure. It’s very difficult to remove dictators. We can but hope, I suppose. | | | |
| Medieval Siege on 12:52 - Apr 9 with 1019 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Seems to be going down a storm on Russia. Besides the victors write history - I don’t recall many allied mass murderers being tried for war crimes. Nor even Japanese nor Germans if they had useful transferable skills such as germ warfare, rocket or nuclear expertise |  |
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| Medieval Siege on 12:56 - Apr 9 with 1018 views | J2BLUE |
| Medieval Siege on 08:49 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
If you can get to him to kill him then you can get to him to capture him. Putin needs to be put through a complete, exhaustive and comprehensive trial so that everyone, especially Russians, is left in no doubt about the extent of his crime and the circumstances that have allowed him to fester. [Post edited 9 Apr 2022 9:00]
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Really? Capturing him would be 1000x harder than killing him which is clearly pretty damn difficult itself. |  |
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| Medieval Siege on 14:55 - Apr 9 with 923 views | WeWereZombies |
| Medieval Siege on 12:56 - Apr 9 by J2BLUE |
Really? Capturing him would be 1000x harder than killing him which is clearly pretty damn difficult itself. |
One thousand times harder, are you sure, any chance of seeing your workings... | |
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| Medieval Siege on 15:56 - Apr 9 with 866 views | WD19 |
| Medieval Siege on 14:55 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
One thousand times harder, are you sure, any chance of seeing your workings... |
He is under a travel ban unfortunately, otherwise it would be a doddle. |  | | |
| Medieval Siege on 16:00 - Apr 9 with 842 views | Coastalblue |
| Medieval Siege on 15:56 - Apr 9 by WD19 |
He is under a travel ban unfortunately, otherwise it would be a doddle. |
Snatched off his towel in Benidorm? |  |
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| Medieval Siege on 16:01 - Apr 9 with 840 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Medieval Siege on 08:49 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
If you can get to him to kill him then you can get to him to capture him. Putin needs to be put through a complete, exhaustive and comprehensive trial so that everyone, especially Russians, is left in no doubt about the extent of his crime and the circumstances that have allowed him to fester. [Post edited 9 Apr 2022 9:00]
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"If you can get to him to kill him then you can get to him to capture him."
Are you sure? Any chance of seeing your workings... |  |
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| Medieval Siege on 16:03 - Apr 9 with 831 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
The longer the conflict lasts the worse it is not just for Ukrainians but the Russian people too. I still hold out hope that someone with sufficient access to Putin will realise this and get rid of him and that the replacement will be far better. Perhaps it as desperate a hope as our hopes of a play-off place. |  |
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| Medieval Siege on 16:05 - Apr 9 with 825 views | J2BLUE |
| Medieval Siege on 14:55 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
One thousand times harder, are you sure, any chance of seeing your workings... |
To have someone get to Putin is clearly very difficult. To have them be able to extract him from the country is clearly a much harder task. This is so obvious i'm surprised it needs an explanation. | |
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| Medieval Siege on 16:21 - Apr 9 with 791 views | jeera |
| Medieval Siege on 16:05 - Apr 9 by J2BLUE |
To have someone get to Putin is clearly very difficult. To have them be able to extract him from the country is clearly a much harder task. This is so obvious i'm surprised it needs an explanation. |
You put him in a bag.
Obviously. |  |
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| Medieval Siege on 16:28 - Apr 9 with 769 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Medieval Siege on 16:21 - Apr 9 by jeera |
You put him in a bag.
Obviously. |
He is an old man now. Ex-KGB or not, he isn't going to be able to put up a lot of resistance is he? | |
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| Medieval Siege on 10:32 - Apr 10 with 625 views | WeWereZombies |
| Medieval Siege on 16:01 - Apr 9 by Kropotkin123 |
"If you can get to him to kill him then you can get to him to capture him."
Are you sure? Any chance of seeing your workings... |
See also Osama Bin Laden - they had that compound surrounded, the Pakistani army and police were complicit, the targets were (unlike a Waco situation) unaware and they could have neutralised them with gas or tranquillser darts...unless it was more convenient for Bin Laden to be dead rather than singing.
Anyway, I didn't say it would be easier to capture Putin rather than kill him, just that if in the unlikely event you could arrange the logistics for an assassination then those same logistics could be modified to accomplish an arrest. It is not an uncommon situation in policing, although there is a backslide amongst reactionary types and those who kow tow to them to assume that capture is an impossibility and that slaughter is the only avenue left... | |
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| Medieval Siege on 10:40 - Apr 10 with 616 views | WeWereZombies |
| Medieval Siege on 16:21 - Apr 9 by jeera |
You put him in a bag.
Obviously. |
Or adapt the Carlos Ghosn model:
'The team hired to extract him from Tokyo had noticed that Japanese security did not follow Ghosn into hotels, which facilitated his escape. A few hours later, two men left the hotel carrying large containers, including an audio equipment box where Ghosn was hidden. The men then boarded a Bombardier Global Express private jet with Turkish registration TC-TSR. The large box carrying Ghosn was never x-rayed or checked by customs officials, because it was too big to fit inside the x-ray machine; the plane left Kansai Airport at 23:10, landing at Istanbul Atatürk Airport at 5:26 on the morning of 30 December 2019'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn#Flight_from_Japan
More seriously, if you are advocating that one extra body is not possible on the return leg it then follows that you are advocating that the team sent to assassinate Putin are on a suicide mission and not expected to return. | |
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| Medieval Siege on 10:42 - Apr 10 with 613 views | WeWereZombies |
| Medieval Siege on 16:05 - Apr 9 by J2BLUE |
To have someone get to Putin is clearly very difficult. To have them be able to extract him from the country is clearly a much harder task. This is so obvious i'm surprised it needs an explanation. |
It is so not obvious that I have to say touche and ask you for the workings as to how kidnapping Putin is a much harder task rather than simply a harder task... | |
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| Medieval Siege on 10:50 - Apr 10 with 603 views | J2BLUE |
| Medieval Siege on 10:42 - Apr 10 by WeWereZombies |
It is so not obvious that I have to say touche and ask you for the workings as to how kidnapping Putin is a much harder task rather than simply a harder task... |
Again, i'm sorry, this is so obvious it seems like a massive waste of time.
Lets say you can get to him. You can fairly quickly kill him. You're suggesting it's not much harder to capture him, restrain him and remove him from Moscow and then Russia as a whole.
I think you're thinking of the SAS or something but they wouldn't get anywhere near Putin without the Russians knowing.
There is a much higher, albeit still tiny, chance that a lone wolf could get close enough to take him out. | |
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| Medieval Siege on 11:01 - Apr 10 with 592 views | WeWereZombies |
| Medieval Siege on 10:50 - Apr 10 by J2BLUE |
Again, i'm sorry, this is so obvious it seems like a massive waste of time.
Lets say you can get to him. You can fairly quickly kill him. You're suggesting it's not much harder to capture him, restrain him and remove him from Moscow and then Russia as a whole.
I think you're thinking of the SAS or something but they wouldn't get anywhere near Putin without the Russians knowing.
There is a much higher, albeit still tiny, chance that a lone wolf could get close enough to take him out. |
It is slowly dawning on you that this is a hypothetical situation, isn't it? Hence the bluster with the 'massive waste of time' attempt at a swerve.
Now, let us stop for a moment, take a breather and think about the aftermath of either an assassination or a kidnap. An assassination leaves the desire for retribution, the potential for the target to be set up as a martyr (both of these are relevant to the Bin Laden mistake), the difficulties of international diplomacy to propose restorative solutions and whatever residual blame attaches if the desired outcomes are not met. Compare this with the likely outcome of a kidnap (which I have never advocated as an easy course of action) - you have a bargaining chip, a defendant to put through due process of law (with all the, presumably mainly positive, consequences) and a reinforcement of international justice. You either go for the kidnap or you do not bother at all. | |
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| Medieval Siege on 11:03 - Apr 10 with 590 views | GlasgowBlue |
This is very bad news.
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| Medieval Siege on 11:04 - Apr 10 with 590 views | J2BLUE |
| Medieval Siege on 11:01 - Apr 10 by WeWereZombies |
It is slowly dawning on you that this is a hypothetical situation, isn't it? Hence the bluster with the 'massive waste of time' attempt at a swerve.
Now, let us stop for a moment, take a breather and think about the aftermath of either an assassination or a kidnap. An assassination leaves the desire for retribution, the potential for the target to be set up as a martyr (both of these are relevant to the Bin Laden mistake), the difficulties of international diplomacy to propose restorative solutions and whatever residual blame attaches if the desired outcomes are not met. Compare this with the likely outcome of a kidnap (which I have never advocated as an easy course of action) - you have a bargaining chip, a defendant to put through due process of law (with all the, presumably mainly positive, consequences) and a reinforcement of international justice. You either go for the kidnap or you do not bother at all. |
There's no swerve.
Hypothetical situation or not, I completely stand by what I said.
If anything you're the one swerving. Explaining the reasoning does nothing to make the task easier.
I'm sure we both have better things to do with our Sunday than devote ten pages to this topic. | |
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| Medieval Siege on 11:15 - Apr 10 with 579 views | WeWereZombies |
| Medieval Siege on 11:04 - Apr 10 by J2BLUE |
There's no swerve.
Hypothetical situation or not, I completely stand by what I said.
If anything you're the one swerving. Explaining the reasoning does nothing to make the task easier.
I'm sure we both have better things to do with our Sunday than devote ten pages to this topic. |
I will take that as your, understandably given the illogical position you have chosen, standing down on the subject.
Enjoy your Sunday - the sun is shining here. | |
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| Medieval Siege on 11:18 - Apr 10 with 574 views | J2BLUE |
| Medieval Siege on 11:15 - Apr 10 by WeWereZombies |
I will take that as your, understandably given the illogical position you have chosen, standing down on the subject.
Enjoy your Sunday - the sun is shining here. |
Whatever helps you sleep. I'm at work. | |
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