| Just got a work email 09:23 - Apr 21 with 10541 views | clive_baker |
from someone at Deloitte, and his email signature includes a list of preferred pronouns. I've never seen this before, am I out of touch?
Pronouns: he / him / his
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| Just got a work email on 09:24 - Apr 21 with 3434 views | Kieran_Knows |
Yes, been a thing for a while. Have several people I deal with that have that in their signatures. |  |
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| Just got a work email on 09:42 - Apr 21 with 3361 views | STYG |
Whilst I rightly support anyone who wishes to be addressed in a certain manner, and I’m sure this will be commonplace in the future, is there a need for a male to clarify they are a him / his currently? That’s widely assumed by society.
Fair enough if this person wished to be them / they or she / her but surely this is only needed to promote the fact you wish to be addressed away from what people would assume?
Otherwise, if we all do this, it just seems to serve to divert from the times people would want to be addressed away from societal expectations and that could be overlooked, and cause offence, where people aren’t noticing it because we all have one. |  | | |
| Just got a work email on 09:45 - Apr 21 with 3323 views | J2BLUE |
Mainly seen it on Twitter but a matter of time before it's everywhere. |  |
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| Just got a work email on 09:48 - Apr 21 with 3313 views | DanTheMan |
Few people I know have it on their Slack, our COO uses they / them and you wouldn't think it looking at them. |  |
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| Just got a work email on 09:57 - Apr 21 with 3261 views | surreyblue |
| Just got a work email on 09:42 - Apr 21 by STYG |
Whilst I rightly support anyone who wishes to be addressed in a certain manner, and I’m sure this will be commonplace in the future, is there a need for a male to clarify they are a him / his currently? That’s widely assumed by society.
Fair enough if this person wished to be them / they or she / her but surely this is only needed to promote the fact you wish to be addressed away from what people would assume?
Otherwise, if we all do this, it just seems to serve to divert from the times people would want to be addressed away from societal expectations and that could be overlooked, and cause offence, where people aren’t noticing it because we all have one. |
It's arguably the opposite - if we normalise it being in everyone's signatures then it doesn't stand out when someone who isn't he/him or she/her dies it. | | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:00 - Apr 21 with 3247 views | IPS_wich |
It's become pretty much part of the standard email signature in the consulting industry globally - so the Big 4 (Deloitte, PwC, EY, KPMG) will have it as part of their default signatures. Having spent 9 years in two of those firms listed they will always be a leader in something like this to minimise the risk of offending anyone. In my current firm it's an optional part of our email signatures - but given I do most of my work with clients in the mental health space it's a no brainer.
As for the comment about whether a male needs a 'he / him / his' suffix - I'll say what I was told by a trans person last year - it's much more about showing your support for the LGBTQI+ community and making them know you are an ally as it is about clarifying your identity. In my work it's essential that everyone I engage with feels safe.
I'll admit I didn't fully understand to start off with (what with being a 40+ white heterosexual male) - but if you don't try to understand why it's important then you haven't really got a right to criticise.
My last comment is that it would be a mistake to confuse this with general wokeness - this is about safety and support for a very vulnerable group (LGBTQI+ teenagers are 5-6 times more likely to contemplate, attempt, die by suicide). [Post edited 21 Apr 2022 10:01]
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| Just got a work email on 10:01 - Apr 21 with 3235 views | clive_baker |
| Just got a work email on 09:24 - Apr 21 by Kieran_Knows |
Yes, been a thing for a while. Have several people I deal with that have that in their signatures. |
I'm out of touch then! I mostly work with start-up and scale-ups now who are generally very progressive and full of lots of lovely liberal people, but they literally don't even have HR functions yet, let alone specific programmes for inclusivity. I've never seen anyone add it to their signature but I've obviously been out of the corporate world for a while. | |
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| Just got a work email on 10:03 - Apr 21 with 3203 views | clive_baker |
| Just got a work email on 09:45 - Apr 21 by J2BLUE |
Mainly seen it on Twitter but a matter of time before it's everywhere. |
Yeah see it all over Twitter and LinkedIn etc but hadn't ever seen it in an email signature.
Name
Job Title
Contact number
Preferred pronouns
Wouldn't even cross my mind to add that tbh. Maybe I'm oficially a dinosour, it's high time I started moaning about the 'youth of today'. | |
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| Just got a work email on 10:05 - Apr 21 with 3180 views | clive_baker |
| Just got a work email on 10:00 - Apr 21 by IPS_wich |
It's become pretty much part of the standard email signature in the consulting industry globally - so the Big 4 (Deloitte, PwC, EY, KPMG) will have it as part of their default signatures. Having spent 9 years in two of those firms listed they will always be a leader in something like this to minimise the risk of offending anyone. In my current firm it's an optional part of our email signatures - but given I do most of my work with clients in the mental health space it's a no brainer.
As for the comment about whether a male needs a 'he / him / his' suffix - I'll say what I was told by a trans person last year - it's much more about showing your support for the LGBTQI+ community and making them know you are an ally as it is about clarifying your identity. In my work it's essential that everyone I engage with feels safe.
I'll admit I didn't fully understand to start off with (what with being a 40+ white heterosexual male) - but if you don't try to understand why it's important then you haven't really got a right to criticise.
My last comment is that it would be a mistake to confuse this with general wokeness - this is about safety and support for a very vulnerable group (LGBTQI+ teenagers are 5-6 times more likely to contemplate, attempt, die by suicide). [Post edited 21 Apr 2022 10:01]
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Well said, don't disagree with any of that. Just the first time I had seen it on an email signature. I spent 5 years at KPMG at the start of my career but that was some 10-15 years back so needless to say wasn't a thing then. One of those I would file under 'harms and inconvenineces absolutely nobody, benefits some', so absolute no brainer really. [Post edited 21 Apr 2022 10:09]
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| Just got a work email on 10:05 - Apr 21 with 3182 views | Cotty |
| Just got a work email on 09:42 - Apr 21 by STYG |
Whilst I rightly support anyone who wishes to be addressed in a certain manner, and I’m sure this will be commonplace in the future, is there a need for a male to clarify they are a him / his currently? That’s widely assumed by society.
Fair enough if this person wished to be them / they or she / her but surely this is only needed to promote the fact you wish to be addressed away from what people would assume?
Otherwise, if we all do this, it just seems to serve to divert from the times people would want to be addressed away from societal expectations and that could be overlooked, and cause offence, where people aren’t noticing it because we all have one. |
It's about making it a more accepted and common thing to share you pronouns to make those who are not cisgender feel more comfortable and supported in their workplace in doing so themselves. It also takes no effort to do it, and doesn't hurt anyone who is not cisgender. |  | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:06 - Apr 21 with 3170 views | Darth_Koont |
That’s a first for me.
But will be increasingly common, I imagine, as people become more and more aware of identity and those who continue to be marginalised in their struggle for acceptance.
Overall I like it – there’s a certain quiet formality and personal respect by adding it to an e-mail footer. If I used a footer with my personal details I’d consider adding it.
Edit: So I’ll add it to my profile here at least. Solidarity! [Post edited 21 Apr 2022 10:13]
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| Just got a work email on 10:08 - Apr 21 with 3130 views | IPS_wich |
| Just got a work email on 10:05 - Apr 21 by Cotty |
It's about making it a more accepted and common thing to share you pronouns to make those who are not cisgender feel more comfortable and supported in their workplace in doing so themselves. It also takes no effort to do it, and doesn't hurt anyone who is not cisgender. |
Thanks - never heard of cisgender before - glad I learned something new today. | | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:12 - Apr 21 with 3066 views | itfcjoe |
You obviously don't do much work in the public sector - seems basically standard from anyone I have dealt with there, and in sectors like universities.
I don't really see the need for it, but that opinion opens up a can of worms and gets into debates where there are no winners |  |
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| Just got a work email on 10:12 - Apr 21 with 3059 views | itfc_bucks |
I couldn't see the point in it at first and was actually quite "oh ffs" about it all, if I'm being honest.
I started working with a trans person and got very gently schooled in why it's important, particularly when working with young people or in the Mental Health space. It's less about identifying my own pronouns (as a SWM) but more about showing support for those for whom it's a more complex matter.
*He/Him, if anyone was wondering. | | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:14 - Apr 21 with 3013 views | lowhouseblue |
it tends to be a big organisation thing. it's generally a sign that they've received training from stonewall. that's not a criticism, it's just how it has originated and why it's common in some places and not others. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just got a work email on 10:15 - Apr 21 with 3035 views | Darth_Koont |
| Just got a work email on 10:12 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe |
You obviously don't do much work in the public sector - seems basically standard from anyone I have dealt with there, and in sectors like universities.
I don't really see the need for it, but that opinion opens up a can of worms and gets into debates where there are no winners |
I think it’s very much needed in the UK. We seem to be leading the developed world in transphobia in the current public debate. | |
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| Just got a work email on 10:17 - Apr 21 with 3007 views | homer_123 |
| Just got a work email on 10:14 - Apr 21 by lowhouseblue |
it tends to be a big organisation thing. it's generally a sign that they've received training from stonewall. that's not a criticism, it's just how it has originated and why it's common in some places and not others. |
It's not a 'big organisation' thing at all. |  |
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| Just got a work email on 10:18 - Apr 21 with 3001 views | SitfcB |
Anybody else encountered this? by factual_blue 17 Jun 2021 19:10A friend we hadn't seen since before lockdown was telling us that in the organisation she used to work for, employees are now told that, after their name on an e-mail, they now have to indicate which are the appropriate pronouns to use when addressing them.
So Facters (he/him), Mrs Facters (she/her), Footers (it).
True story.
The organisation is A Major Professional Organisation.
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| Just got a work email on 10:23 - Apr 21 with 2957 views | chicoazul |
| Just got a work email on 10:15 - Apr 21 by Darth_Koont |
I think it’s very much needed in the UK. We seem to be leading the developed world in transphobia in the current public debate. |
That may be true online in certain circles but in my experience the vast majority of people IRL simply don’t care and will call a person whatever they wish to be called, and treat them normally. Why so many many people (not you necessarily) get immensely animated about transphobia which affects a tiny minority of people in the UK when there are so many bigger problems affecting so many people I have no idea. |  |
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| Just got a work email on 10:25 - Apr 21 with 2944 views | ZXBlue |
| Just got a work email on 09:42 - Apr 21 by STYG |
Whilst I rightly support anyone who wishes to be addressed in a certain manner, and I’m sure this will be commonplace in the future, is there a need for a male to clarify they are a him / his currently? That’s widely assumed by society.
Fair enough if this person wished to be them / they or she / her but surely this is only needed to promote the fact you wish to be addressed away from what people would assume?
Otherwise, if we all do this, it just seems to serve to divert from the times people would want to be addressed away from societal expectations and that could be overlooked, and cause offence, where people aren’t noticing it because we all have one. |
The point, of course, is that doing it where its obvious normalises it, so that when someone for whom it may not be obvious does it, it does not stand out as a special thing. | | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:26 - Apr 21 with 2944 views | itfc_bucks |
| Just got a work email on 10:23 - Apr 21 by chicoazul |
That may be true online in certain circles but in my experience the vast majority of people IRL simply don’t care and will call a person whatever they wish to be called, and treat them normally. Why so many many people (not you necessarily) get immensely animated about transphobia which affects a tiny minority of people in the UK when there are so many bigger problems affecting so many people I have no idea. |
Because there are bigger issues doesn't mean this isn't an issue that ought to be addressed. | | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:33 - Apr 21 with 2888 views | Illinoisblue |
| Just got a work email on 10:26 - Apr 21 by itfc_bucks |
Because there are bigger issues doesn't mean this isn't an issue that ought to be addressed. |
Off on a bit of a tangent this but message is the same. On a Brits in USA group I’m in, someone posted about how annoying it is that American supermarkets continually spray water on fruit and veg (to keep them fresh supposedly) and how it makes this woman’s shopping bag all wet. To which someone angrily replied “but what about people being killed in Ukraine?” |  |
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| Just got a work email on 10:35 - Apr 21 with 2871 views | IPS_wich |
| Just got a work email on 10:23 - Apr 21 by chicoazul |
That may be true online in certain circles but in my experience the vast majority of people IRL simply don’t care and will call a person whatever they wish to be called, and treat them normally. Why so many many people (not you necessarily) get immensely animated about transphobia which affects a tiny minority of people in the UK when there are so many bigger problems affecting so many people I have no idea. |
Do you remember your teenage years?
The whole insecurity, jealousy, anxiety of trying to work out who you were, what you cared about, who cared about you etc.
Well for a child or adolescent who also adds to this their confusion about their identity or their sexuality try multiplying this by a hundred.
And I'm not talking about almost adults, I'm talking about 10, 11, 12 year olds (good friends of ours have just supported their 11/12 year olds move into high school with a different gender identity than they finished primary school with - the school was amazing).
Well - as mentioned previously - these kids are 5-6 times more likely to attempt suicide before they turn 18 years old than a child who hasn't had these thoughts.
I have no idea how old you are - but if you are a parent, now ask yourself how you would feel if that's your kid. Chances are you've never thought about it much - but then you have your child come up to you and say they're confused, they're scared and (worse still) they're being bullied about it.
The single biggest cause of death in under-18s is suicide - so no, it's not a small issue. It's big and getting bigger. | | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:35 - Apr 21 with 2868 views | Ftnfwest |
We do it although optional ATM. Good process for humiliating people who get it wrong I guess. |  | | |
| Just got a work email on 10:53 - Apr 21 with 2781 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just got a work email on 10:17 - Apr 21 by homer_123 |
It's not a 'big organisation' thing at all. |
in email signatures it does tend to be. the organisations that have been quoted in this thread are big consultancies, the civil service and universities. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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