| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign 22:10 - May 6 with 10337 views | ElderGrizzly |
If fined for “beergate”
Assume this is Abbott and Corbyn then based on their comments and tweets the last few days
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:05 - May 7 with 758 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 09:56 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Burnham isn’t a member of Parliament. If Starmer resigns, and by extension Rayner would also have to resign as she was at beergate (after spending a year saying that she wasn’t) so the next leader will have to come from one of the remaining 197 Labour MP’s. [Post edited 7 May 2022 9:57]
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Oh yeah I suppose there is that but I reckon they could get him elected somewhere pretty fast. I don't follow a lot of this stuff but why would she have pretended otherwise....most bizarre but oh well.
Burnham would get the North back for Labour though. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:05 - May 7 with 750 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:00 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Unlike the 2 candidates that go forward to the membership in a Tory leadership election, Labour actually put 4 forward which always ensures a “progressive” candidate is on the ballot.
Last time it was RLB, before her Corbyn, before him Abbot. [Post edited 7 May 2022 10:03]
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I could be wrong but I believe they’ve changed the threshold for nominations. Certainly that was the talk.
But if there is a genuinely progressive candidate for formality’s sake, they’ll have a target on their back from day one. And all sorts of worms inside and outside the party briefing against them. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:05 - May 7 with 759 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:00 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Unlike the 2 candidates that go forward to the membership in a Tory leadership election, Labour actually put 4 forward which always ensures a “progressive” candidate is on the ballot.
Last time it was RLB, before her Corbyn, before him Abbot. [Post edited 7 May 2022 10:03]
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I do take issue with this appropriation of the word "progressive" to mean a particular political ideology. |  | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:11 - May 7 with 724 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:05 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Oh yeah I suppose there is that but I reckon they could get him elected somewhere pretty fast. I don't follow a lot of this stuff but why would she have pretended otherwise....most bizarre but oh well.
Burnham would get the North back for Labour though. |
But who is they? Unless there is a sone deal between the PLP, a retiring MP and party members to parachute Burnham into a safe seat then he doesn’t haste a route to the leadership if Dtarmer suddenly resigns.
Starmer going now is the worst possible outcome for Burnham. The odds are very good for a Labour minority government in a hung Parliament in 2024 so there won’t be a vacancy for Labour leader until 2029 at best. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:11 - May 7 with 716 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:05 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Oh yeah I suppose there is that but I reckon they could get him elected somewhere pretty fast. I don't follow a lot of this stuff but why would she have pretended otherwise....most bizarre but oh well.
Burnham would get the North back for Labour though. |
It’s actually quite funny that Labour have gone backwards since 2018 everywhere except London. Of course, that’s where left-wing politics and councillors have been safest from attack.
I saw that an unnamed Labour source is saying that they now need to focus their strategy towards white Tory voters in the North. On any level that’s bowlocks. They’re either trolling the country or themselves. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:13 - May 7 with 721 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:05 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
I could be wrong but I believe they’ve changed the threshold for nominations. Certainly that was the talk.
But if there is a genuinely progressive candidate for formality’s sake, they’ll have a target on their back from day one. And all sorts of worms inside and outside the party briefing against them. |
I want aware of that. It was 15% of MP’s when Corbyn and Starmer stood for election. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:17 - May 7 with 713 views | Beckets |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:13 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I want aware of that. It was 15% of MP’s when Corbyn and Starmer stood for election. |
I could see pressure on Labour to select a woman as their next leader after Starmer. In which case I could see that being Rachel Reeves. |  | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:19 - May 7 with 691 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:11 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
But who is they? Unless there is a sone deal between the PLP, a retiring MP and party members to parachute Burnham into a safe seat then he doesn’t haste a route to the leadership if Dtarmer suddenly resigns.
Starmer going now is the worst possible outcome for Burnham. The odds are very good for a Labour minority government in a hung Parliament in 2024 so there won’t be a vacancy for Labour leader until 2029 at best. |
Starmer going or not is firmly in the hands of the Durham police. If he is fined and tries to stay then what is left of his limited credibility with swing voters will be in tatters. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:21 - May 7 with 675 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:11 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
It’s actually quite funny that Labour have gone backwards since 2018 everywhere except London. Of course, that’s where left-wing politics and councillors have been safest from attack.
I saw that an unnamed Labour source is saying that they now need to focus their strategy towards white Tory voters in the North. On any level that’s bowlocks. They’re either trolling the country or themselves. |
Same in Scotland. In Glasgow we have seen Labour make massive gains on the SNP to put them just one seat behind.
Cities often choose progressive candidates over nationalism. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:25 - May 7 with 657 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:19 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Starmer going or not is firmly in the hands of the Durham police. If he is fined and tries to stay then what is left of his limited credibility with swing voters will be in tatters. |
Yes I completely agree. As I said earlier, his call for Sunak to resign may well come back to haunt him.
The Tories would also prefer a long protracted investigation by Durham police as Starmer can no longer go on the attack over partygate until he has been cleared himself. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:25 - May 7 with 646 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:17 - May 7 by Beckets |
I could see pressure on Labour to select a woman as their next leader after Starmer. In which case I could see that being Rachel Reeves. |
Christ!
If people think Starmer lacks charisma and more importantly values/vision, Reeves is unbelievably even worse.
Edited: I didn’t mean you personally or that she is your preferred candidate. And it is just the sort of move I can imagine the Labour management making.
[Post edited 7 May 2022 10:30]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:27 - May 7 with 639 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:11 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
It’s actually quite funny that Labour have gone backwards since 2018 everywhere except London. Of course, that’s where left-wing politics and councillors have been safest from attack.
I saw that an unnamed Labour source is saying that they now need to focus their strategy towards white Tory voters in the North. On any level that’s bowlocks. They’re either trolling the country or themselves. |
Labour win Wandsworth and lose Hull
Says it all really. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:30 - May 7 with 615 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:17 - May 7 by Beckets |
I could see pressure on Labour to select a woman as their next leader after Starmer. In which case I could see that being Rachel Reeves. |
In today’s personality obsessed politics she’d been seen as far too monotone.
Although she could well be the UK version of Angela Merkel. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:32 - May 7 with 609 views | Beckets |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:25 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Christ!
If people think Starmer lacks charisma and more importantly values/vision, Reeves is unbelievably even worse.
Edited: I didn’t mean you personally or that she is your preferred candidate. And it is just the sort of move I can imagine the Labour management making.
[Post edited 7 May 2022 10:30]
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I wasn’t saying she would be my choice. I realise he’s not an MP but Burnham would be the leader the Tories fear most and Is further to the left than Reeves, Cooper etc. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:37 - May 7 with 597 views | DublinBlue84 |
Could he come out and say that if he is found guilty he will resign now and get ahead of the story?
If he does get found guilty, he's painting himself and the party out of being one of principle and of standards and integrity. This would make the Tory party seem even more out of touch and also leave Johnson in a rather precarious position, as Labour could point to the fact that they owned their mistakes and take responsibility for them, whereas the Tory party and Johnson doesn't.
If he isn't found guilty, he can just carry on and say that unlike Boris, he was prepared to take responsibility, but he hasn't been found guilty, but that Johnson should now do the decent thing and resign like he was going to and show he has the same level as integrity that Starmer is showing.
Starmer resigning may not be the best outcome for them. The best outcome for the Tories really would be Starmer being found guilty and carrying on. It'll just mean people paint both of Johnson and Starmer as bad as each other, which is better for the Tories than to have a leader hanging on no matter what when the opposition have took their medicine so to speak. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:40 - May 7 with 590 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:32 - May 7 by Beckets |
I wasn’t saying she would be my choice. I realise he’s not an MP but Burnham would be the leader the Tories fear most and Is further to the left than Reeves, Cooper etc. |
Yeah, sorry.
I actually edited it before you replied because I didn’t mean that.
Agree re: Burnham, but according to Burnham himself he’s someone who was already too much of a lefty for the Labour grandees back in 2015.
The party has been captured by Tories for want of a better word. It was only the membership, local politicians, some of the unions and a minority of MPs that have stayed even remotely close to social democracy let alone democratic socialism. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:42 - May 7 with 589 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:00 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Unlike the 2 candidates that go forward to the membership in a Tory leadership election, Labour actually put 4 forward which always ensures a “progressive” candidate is on the ballot.
Last time it was RLB, before her Corbyn, before him Abbot. [Post edited 7 May 2022 10:03]
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Jeremy Corbyn is not as different to other politicians as most of his mega fans would make you think. The only difference is that he has a fanatical support and was good at hiding it.
I've seen it first hand. He's no better or worse than your average politician like that. I'm not saying he's any worse than any of them, but he's not the totally different person that some people claim him out to be. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:43 - May 7 with 587 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:40 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah, sorry.
I actually edited it before you replied because I didn’t mean that.
Agree re: Burnham, but according to Burnham himself he’s someone who was already too much of a lefty for the Labour grandees back in 2015.
The party has been captured by Tories for want of a better word. It was only the membership, local politicians, some of the unions and a minority of MPs that have stayed even remotely close to social democracy let alone democratic socialism. |
Burnham would not win a GE. For the reasons you set out.
But that would probably suit you fine. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:46 - May 7 with 572 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:43 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Burnham would not win a GE. For the reasons you set out.
But that would probably suit you fine. |
To change anything you have to be in power.
Better to moderate your position a little and win power and have slightly toned down policies than be in opposition and have full right wing ones that the Tories are serving up.
Unfortunately the far left of the Labour Party do not understand this and are the enablers of this Tory government, playing down their most successful leaders and playing up their biggest failures. Corbyn and the far left of the Labour party have been the Tories biggest assets.
Unfortunately some people think it's better to have 25% of the population whipped up to be fanatical lovers of a party and little else than to have 35-40% who like the party not quite as much, but still enough to vote for them over the Tories. This is the quandary facing Labour, elections are not about pleasing your core base, they are about appealing to enough people across the country. It's not about simply appeasing your hardcore voters. [Post edited 7 May 2022 10:49]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:48 - May 7 with 568 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:46 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
To change anything you have to be in power.
Better to moderate your position a little and win power and have slightly toned down policies than be in opposition and have full right wing ones that the Tories are serving up.
Unfortunately the far left of the Labour Party do not understand this and are the enablers of this Tory government, playing down their most successful leaders and playing up their biggest failures. Corbyn and the far left of the Labour party have been the Tories biggest assets.
Unfortunately some people think it's better to have 25% of the population whipped up to be fanatical lovers of a party and little else than to have 35-40% who like the party not quite as much, but still enough to vote for them over the Tories. This is the quandary facing Labour, elections are not about pleasing your core base, they are about appealing to enough people across the country. It's not about simply appeasing your hardcore voters. [Post edited 7 May 2022 10:49]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:50 - May 7 with 560 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:43 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Burnham would not win a GE. For the reasons you set out.
But that would probably suit you fine. |
If Labour power-brokers hadn’t spent the last 3 or 4 decades sh1tting on social democracy and bigging up neoliberalism then we wouldn’t be in the current mess. And Labour wouldn’t have lost voters for 20 years until they came back for Corbyn’s social democracy in 2017.
But sure, let’s just keep plodding along in the same direction.
When do you start thinking enough is enough? | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:53 - May 7 with 551 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:42 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
Jeremy Corbyn is not as different to other politicians as most of his mega fans would make you think. The only difference is that he has a fanatical support and was good at hiding it.
I've seen it first hand. He's no better or worse than your average politician like that. I'm not saying he's any worse than any of them, but he's not the totally different person that some people claim him out to be. |
But his policies were different and they were addressing structural failings.
That’s the important thing that our current politics and political discourse singularly ignores. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:56 - May 7 with 546 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:50 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
If Labour power-brokers hadn’t spent the last 3 or 4 decades sh1tting on social democracy and bigging up neoliberalism then we wouldn’t be in the current mess. And Labour wouldn’t have lost voters for 20 years until they came back for Corbyn’s social democracy in 2017.
But sure, let’s just keep plodding along in the same direction.
When do you start thinking enough is enough? |
Easy to speculate, but not much logic behind it.
To win a GE you need to entice the middle ground. And ideally some chunks from the other side. With scotland largely lost, that is more essential than ever.
History is full of leftist labour leaders who simply fall short of the required votes. You are literally going back almost 50 years for an example of a succesful labour leader who is not, in your view, just a tory in disguise. 50 years. What do you think would be different this time?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 11:00]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:56 - May 7 with 544 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:48 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
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That's exactly my point.
They'd rather enable full right wing policies that have destroyed peoples lives up and down the UK than actually compromise. They're more obsessed by keeping control of their own party and appealing to their core base, than trying to make the party appeal to more people, gaining power so they can win an election.
The Tories have been historically better at coming together and realising that sometimes they need to moderate their position in the interest of the party, that's something Labour have really struggled to do over the years, which has led to the situation where you have the Corbynistas literally deliberately scoring own goals out of spite like a child playing FIFA online who is pissed off at losing.
I understand that some Labour party figures don't want to compromise the parties position at all, but they really need to look at the bigger picture of what is happening to this country. If they don't wake up soon, then they will find it impossible for that Labour to ever win power back, especially with the anti-democratic reforms being made to the electoral commission which are scandalous. | |
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