| Dons missing out on the play off final. 10:35 - May 10 with 3330 views | OriginalMarkyP |
I know the temptation is to watch these games, rub your head and think how did all these teams finish above us? We can play these off the park. Roll on next season and HMS Piss the League.
BUT...
It just isn't that simple. There is a reason why it's the more muscular, sh1thousey teams that are challenging for promotion every season we've been in this godforsaken division. With lax refs and poor pitches, you get away with the thug football that you wouldn't higher up. And it levels the playing field. We really do need to be able to compete in the fight as well as the ballet (if you get what I mean). Otherwise we'll get bullied off the park too many times to make the sublime moments count. And I think that's the really difficult winning formula we're always going to have to find. Pretty football, backed up by brawn as well as brains.
And Morsy on his own is not enough to do that. Doesn't matter who is playing up top if we get bullied off the park. |  |
| |  |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 10:48 - May 10 with 2526 views | textbackup |
morsy, burns, wolf, fridge, donacian, walton, bakinson to name a few are more than physically capable of standing up to the brutes in this league.
will get shot down for this, but thats why i would personally take chaplin over celina, he's a tough little sod, and will get stuck in |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 10:53 - May 10 with 2495 views | STYG |
Oh good. What we need is another thread on this.
Let's put some myths to bed.
1) More teams have been promoted recently from this division playing good football than playing like Rotherham and Wycombe. Almost all of the ones that stayed up played 'the right way'.
2) We created chance after chance in most matches where we failed to win. The strikers were crap. A couple of games like Wednesday away (with no Morsy or Evans and Bakinson and Thompson making debuts) and Rotherham we didn't, but even Rotherham we could have taken the lead, were the better side first half and still had chances to take something from the match.
3) We are pathetic at set pieces. This is the biggest difference between us and some of the more physical teams but that's in part down to movement and delivery.
4) I'd rather we got promoted without the housery. There may be a time and a place not to take a quick throw but the fact is that some of these teams did it to us because we hadn't gone in front or put them to bed. When we do so, the time wasting stops. That's our issue. A team with a sixth of our budget has every right to shut up shop, gain every little advantage they can and try and throw us off our game. [Post edited 10 May 2022 11:46]
|  | | |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:11 - May 10 with 2404 views | jayessess |
How many of Wigan, Peterborough, Hull, Blackpool, Coventry were "muscular sh1thousey teams"? |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:26 - May 10 with 2355 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:11 - May 10 by jayessess |
How many of Wigan, Peterborough, Hull, Blackpool, Coventry were "muscular sh1thousey teams"? |
They all have it in their locker. They play football the right way but can mix it when they have to.
Us, not so much. | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:34 - May 10 with 2316 views | SouperJim |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:26 - May 10 by OriginalMarkyP |
They all have it in their locker. They play football the right way but can mix it when they have to.
Us, not so much. |
I agree. Of course it's not a binary sh!thouse vs barcelona situation, but I do think we lack a bit of a horrible edge that other teams who have climbed out of this league, even the ones who played decent football, had more of than we do. The fact we are so terrible at set pieces, at both ends of the pitch, is a great marker for this.
I've long been a believer that we desperately need a Shefki Kuqi, Alan Lee, Daryl Murphy type to lead the line. Someone who can score goals AND be a complete pain in the backside. Unfortunately the nearest thing we've had this season is Bonne and he's clearly a confidence player, as soon as the goals stopped going in he went to sh!t. My one worry about McKenna is he perhaps doesn't quite want someone in that mould and thinks a pure finisher is enough. |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:35 - May 10 with 2312 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 10:48 - May 10 by textbackup |
morsy, burns, wolf, fridge, donacian, walton, bakinson to name a few are more than physically capable of standing up to the brutes in this league.
will get shot down for this, but thats why i would personally take chaplin over celina, he's a tough little sod, and will get stuck in |
Whilst a discussion between Chaplin or Celina may be a fair one, and neither answer is wrong.
Celina definitely gets stuck in. The home game vs Plymouth, he was ridiculous. I dont remember seeing a player up and down like that in ages. He was winning it back taking it forward on repeat. Plus i think he's got a good bit of bite about him |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:36 - May 10 with 2313 views | Dyland |
We didn't get bullied off the park at all last season. We were simply sh1te too often under Cook, and didn't put away enough chances under McK. Is this a new myth that we were soft? We weren't. The team before had a softer underbelly for sure. |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:43 - May 10 with 2279 views | NthQldITFC |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 10:53 - May 10 by STYG |
Oh good. What we need is another thread on this.
Let's put some myths to bed.
1) More teams have been promoted recently from this division playing good football than playing like Rotherham and Wycombe. Almost all of the ones that stayed up played 'the right way'.
2) We created chance after chance in most matches where we failed to win. The strikers were crap. A couple of games like Wednesday away (with no Morsy or Evans and Bakinson and Thompson making debuts) and Rotherham we didn't, but even Rotherham we could have taken the lead, were the better side first half and still had chances to take something from the match.
3) We are pathetic at set pieces. This is the biggest difference between us and some of the more physical teams but that's in part down to movement and delivery.
4) I'd rather we got promoted without the housery. There may be a time and a place not to take a quick throw but the fact is that some of these teams did it to us because we hadn't gone in front or put them to bed. When we do so, the time wasting stops. That's our issue. A team with a sixth of our budget has every right to shut up shop, gain every little advantage they can and try and throw us off our game. [Post edited 10 May 2022 11:46]
|
...and getting up with a squad well used to playing good football and dominating games next year will stand us in good stead in the Second Division the year after. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:44 - May 10 with 2267 views | STYG |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:43 - May 10 by NthQldITFC |
...and getting up with a squad well used to playing good football and dominating games next year will stand us in good stead in the Second Division the year after. |
It's really no different to what Burley achieved and why we finished 5th.
Took years to get it right and the playoffs were a major factor in that, but it's the reason why we had such an incredible season, in part, and didn't just do what West Brom, Derby, Watford or Sheffield United did in those days and come straight back down again. | | | |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:57 - May 10 with 2164 views | Moggasknockdown |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:34 - May 10 by SouperJim |
I agree. Of course it's not a binary sh!thouse vs barcelona situation, but I do think we lack a bit of a horrible edge that other teams who have climbed out of this league, even the ones who played decent football, had more of than we do. The fact we are so terrible at set pieces, at both ends of the pitch, is a great marker for this.
I've long been a believer that we desperately need a Shefki Kuqi, Alan Lee, Daryl Murphy type to lead the line. Someone who can score goals AND be a complete pain in the backside. Unfortunately the nearest thing we've had this season is Bonne and he's clearly a confidence player, as soon as the goals stopped going in he went to sh!t. My one worry about McKenna is he perhaps doesn't quite want someone in that mould and thinks a pure finisher is enough. |
Getting promoted relies on so many variables, from injuries and suspensions through to good recruitment and sometimes dumb luck. This years points tally has been crazy, and there are some really effective teams in this league. I think the main point for me is that we need some more leadership experience in the group, coupled with options for alternative means of scoring (set pieces, effective substitutes to change a game) and then the intangibles- the belief and character that Wycombe and Sunderland have shown despite setbacks this year. The last two don't come overnight, and with some momentum and belief from McKenna's reign to date next season we should see more of it. We have to stop the softness (Oxford away, Sunderland away, Plymouth away) and we have to find a solution to dealing with the 'low block sit-in' type team. Other than that, I think back to the 2000 promotion and consider that we need a few 'sliding doors' moments to go our way across the season. Who knows, maybe the most significant one is that we have unearthed an excellent management team. Only time will tell, of course. COYB | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:01 - May 10 with 2149 views | NthQldITFC |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:44 - May 10 by STYG |
It's really no different to what Burley achieved and why we finished 5th.
Took years to get it right and the playoffs were a major factor in that, but it's the reason why we had such an incredible season, in part, and didn't just do what West Brom, Derby, Watford or Sheffield United did in those days and come straight back down again. |
That, I think, is a very excellent point.
EDIT: ...and the Div 2 to Div 1 step up then, is possibly quite similar to the Div 3 to Div 2 step up now? [Post edited 10 May 2022 12:02]
| |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:04 - May 10 with 2134 views | ArnieM |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 10:48 - May 10 by textbackup |
morsy, burns, wolf, fridge, donacian, walton, bakinson to name a few are more than physically capable of standing up to the brutes in this league.
will get shot down for this, but thats why i would personally take chaplin over celina, he's a tough little sod, and will get stuck in |
They may have the physical attributes but a lot if them unfortunately do not have that mental aggression required for this league . When was the last time you saw one of our defenders really ATTACK the ball ( knocking people out of the way to get to the ball ) in either our defensive box or the opponents box at corners . This is why we never score from corners . Frankly , we’re powered puff ! |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:08 - May 10 with 2119 views | BarcaBlue |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:04 - May 10 by ArnieM |
They may have the physical attributes but a lot if them unfortunately do not have that mental aggression required for this league . When was the last time you saw one of our defenders really ATTACK the ball ( knocking people out of the way to get to the ball ) in either our defensive box or the opponents box at corners . This is why we never score from corners . Frankly , we’re powered puff ! |
Yep, definitely powered puff. |  | | |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:10 - May 10 with 2107 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:57 - May 10 by Moggasknockdown |
Getting promoted relies on so many variables, from injuries and suspensions through to good recruitment and sometimes dumb luck. This years points tally has been crazy, and there are some really effective teams in this league. I think the main point for me is that we need some more leadership experience in the group, coupled with options for alternative means of scoring (set pieces, effective substitutes to change a game) and then the intangibles- the belief and character that Wycombe and Sunderland have shown despite setbacks this year. The last two don't come overnight, and with some momentum and belief from McKenna's reign to date next season we should see more of it. We have to stop the softness (Oxford away, Sunderland away, Plymouth away) and we have to find a solution to dealing with the 'low block sit-in' type team. Other than that, I think back to the 2000 promotion and consider that we need a few 'sliding doors' moments to go our way across the season. Who knows, maybe the most significant one is that we have unearthed an excellent management team. Only time will tell, of course. COYB |
The solution is incredibly simple. We just need to start scoring following corners / free kicks.
Looking back at the season we qualified for Europe I am reminded why we were favourites for relegation. In the promotion season we had been wasteful in turning chances created into goals. The so called experts believed we wouldn’t be able to create enough chances against top flight teams. |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:15 - May 10 with 2087 views | textbackup |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:04 - May 10 by ArnieM |
They may have the physical attributes but a lot if them unfortunately do not have that mental aggression required for this league . When was the last time you saw one of our defenders really ATTACK the ball ( knocking people out of the way to get to the ball ) in either our defensive box or the opponents box at corners . This is why we never score from corners . Frankly , we’re powered puff ! |
lol, sorry?! | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:28 - May 10 with 2027 views | ArnieM |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:15 - May 10 by textbackup |
lol, sorry?! |
When was the last time you saw our defenders attack the ball from a corner and score a goal ? | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 13:15 - May 10 with 1855 views | Hullblue |
Nothing personal to you MarkyP, but this is English football fans' answer for absolutely everything. I can bet there's fans of every single non-promoted club in the entire EFL who are saying the same thing about their team:
"We didn't succeed - oh, we obviously weren't hard enough then. Better sign some more physical players."
There's zero evidence that we got bullied this season. Competing physically is a bare minimum that we reached in every game I can think of.
The reason we didn't go up is because we weren't good enough at football. We need to get better at football. |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 13:37 - May 10 with 1767 views | textbackup |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:28 - May 10 by ArnieM |
When was the last time you saw our defenders attack the ball from a corner and score a goal ? |
that bit i agree with.... but the defending side of things, i think the goals against really speaks for itself | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 13:46 - May 10 with 1746 views | Moggasknockdown |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 12:10 - May 10 by Pinewoodblue |
The solution is incredibly simple. We just need to start scoring following corners / free kicks.
Looking back at the season we qualified for Europe I am reminded why we were favourites for relegation. In the promotion season we had been wasteful in turning chances created into goals. The so called experts believed we wouldn’t be able to create enough chances against top flight teams. |
Yes, certainly better at set pieces. I laugh at the excitement of the crowd every time we get a corner as they are normally dross or nobody gets close, so too our inability to defend them / 2nd phases properly. Add that to a team that is well set up, well drilled and has some 'never beaten' spirit and we will have a right go this year. Rotherham beat us up in the second half in April, having stayed in the game during the 1st half and made the game a mess, and took midfield out of the equation. Wigan dug in when they looked done for at 2-1 down and found a point. Sunderland have scored loads of goals after the 90th minute this year- its crucial.
The 2000 analogy is interesting. I think a lot of our success came from a team that knew its jobs so well, a premier league that underestimated us, and a striker that was utterly clinical and a fantastic team spirit and belief. Magical times, if only for a short while! | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 14:08 - May 10 with 1685 views | Sharkey |
Harry Pell it is then . |  | | |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 14:42 - May 10 with 1621 views | jayessess |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 11:26 - May 10 by OriginalMarkyP |
They all have it in their locker. They play football the right way but can mix it when they have to.
Us, not so much. |
I don't think there's much that backs that up really. We beat rough, long ball teams this season, saw out narrow games, we also dropped points to sides that played a bit more football.
This is just one of those Ipswich clichés that fans grasp for regardless of reality. "We're a soft touch", "we're not streetwise enough" has been doing the rounds since the 1990s. | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 17:07 - May 10 with 1450 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 14:42 - May 10 by jayessess |
I don't think there's much that backs that up really. We beat rough, long ball teams this season, saw out narrow games, we also dropped points to sides that played a bit more football.
This is just one of those Ipswich clichés that fans grasp for regardless of reality. "We're a soft touch", "we're not streetwise enough" has been doing the rounds since the 1990s. |
What you are talking about is not sh1thousery, they are just different styles of play. When teams have got a bit physical or used gamesmanship we have been unable to counter. We are not smart as a team and seem to consistently fall for the sucker punch. Morsy's post match ban being a perfect example of this ( prod him enough and he will be booked ).
We need to head off these issues before they become a problem. I would suggest we meet fire with fire and if we need to ( like Madrid did ) kill the game when we are ahead. Its not all about pretty football and when the occasion requires, you have to get down and dirty. Nice football and game management are not mutually exclusive |  | | |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 17:40 - May 10 with 1409 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 13:15 - May 10 by Hullblue |
Nothing personal to you MarkyP, but this is English football fans' answer for absolutely everything. I can bet there's fans of every single non-promoted club in the entire EFL who are saying the same thing about their team:
"We didn't succeed - oh, we obviously weren't hard enough then. Better sign some more physical players."
There's zero evidence that we got bullied this season. Competing physically is a bare minimum that we reached in every game I can think of.
The reason we didn't go up is because we weren't good enough at football. We need to get better at football. |
I think you'll find what I'm talking about is not us playing thug football it's about playing good football and yet being able to counter the teams who overwhelm us physically (and sometimes just through tactical sh1thousery).
That's not the English Football Fans' answer to everything either. Have you watched much Italian football? Or even Spanish football? At the highest level those teams have incredible players but they are tactically canny and quite content to be physical when required. Mateo Materazzi? Sergio Ramos? Giorgio Chiellini?
I think you'll find that these players would be more than happy to bend the rules to win. To pull shirts. To stamp on feet. To trash talk. To cut you off at the knees. Yet they are all world class continental players. And they are all winners. And light years ahead of any league one player in ability.
To say 'this is English football fans' answer for absolutely everything' is just dumb. | |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 18:08 - May 10 with 1379 views | FrimleyBlue |
Imo it's not really about our players being tough it's very simple differences which we struggled with last season.
We don't score goals from outside the area
We don't score from set pieces
We don't have a striker who sets up his own goals
We don't manage games well.. I.e time wasting
We don't need to be a battling side. We just need to be better on all of the above and we have a chance. |  |
| |
| Dons missing out on the play off final. on 19:37 - May 10 with 1313 views | Stewart27 |
True
Sunderland are one of the worst footballing teams you’ll ever see. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
