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2,196 UK adults, 13-15 May Tory 34 - 241 Lab 41 - 321
The only movement is a slow widening of the gap over the past 6 months - Starmer remains ahead of Johnson on the 'Best PM' metric for the 6th month in a row.
A Parliament of over 400 progressive MPs - with 140 or so Tories facing losing their seat
The thought is that tactical voting will increase Lab by 10 seats, Con down 10 seats, and as long as gut bucket stays I suspect it will be even more
So Hooray for the walrus of waffle - he is to the Tory party, what rabies would be to Battersea Dogs Home
[Post edited 19 May 2022 17:08]
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 22:45 - May 19 with 2108 views
If polls have taught us anything in the last 10 years, its that people don't reveal their true voting intentions to pollsters. Ergo. Polls mean nothing.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 22:45 - May 19 by Cheltenham_Blue
If polls have taught us anything in the last 10 years, its that people don't reveal their true voting intentions to pollsters. Ergo. Polls mean nothing.
And we are 2 years away from another GE aren't we?
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 08:14 - May 20 by ghostofescobar
What do you mean by that? Not a confrontational question, just genuinely interested.
Historically, the Conservatives tend to do better than the polls suggest any Labour worse. The outlier was 2017 when there was a bigger than anticipated move towards Labour. But even then the polls were narrowing approaching Election Day.
I’m pretty confident Johnson will be gone before the next General Election so will be interesting to see who the Conservatives pick. They don’t have many options TBH.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 08:14 - May 20 by ghostofescobar
What do you mean by that? Not a confrontational question, just genuinely interested.
Just that whichever party gets in the same sort of thing happens. I've no axe to friend as I've voted all sorts of ways and can't stand Johnson, but let's not imagine for a moment that when another party gets in things will change. I'm old enough (but not too old to have lost my memory!) to have seen so many governments and they all to end the same way - they run out of idea's or power goes to their heads.
That's all I was trying to say - in what i hoped was a humorous way; but humour doesn't always translate on a message board, with people you don't know and with added typo's!
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 09:22 - May 20 by Vic
Just that whichever party gets in the same sort of thing happens. I've no axe to friend as I've voted all sorts of ways and can't stand Johnson, but let's not imagine for a moment that when another party gets in things will change. I'm old enough (but not too old to have lost my memory!) to have seen so many governments and they all to end the same way - they run out of idea's or power goes to their heads.
That's all I was trying to say - in what i hoped was a humorous way; but humour doesn't always translate on a message board, with people you don't know and with added typo's!
That's not borne out by the outcomes though. They are most definitely not the same normally, let alone when the comparision is with this particulalrly corrupt and inept Govt.
Sure, nobody's going to have a clean sweep on sanity, decency and fairness. Inequality grew under New Labour for example as they continued macro-economic policies skewed in the direction of company owners and the rich. Yet at the same time, there were many, many things they did that made things better for all of us: largest social mobility of developed nations, record investment in public services with vastly better metrics than we've had since, significant numbers lifted out of poverty (as opposed to being plunged into poverty since), increased social justice and rights, etc. All that has been trashed since.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 09:22 - May 20 by Vic
Just that whichever party gets in the same sort of thing happens. I've no axe to friend as I've voted all sorts of ways and can't stand Johnson, but let's not imagine for a moment that when another party gets in things will change. I'm old enough (but not too old to have lost my memory!) to have seen so many governments and they all to end the same way - they run out of idea's or power goes to their heads.
That's all I was trying to say - in what i hoped was a humorous way; but humour doesn't always translate on a message board, with people you don't know and with added typo's!
Change isn't the most pressing issue we have. It's decency.
Starmer could come in with pretty much the same set of policies as the current government* and there would be an immediate change in the way that the government conducts itself.
*Not that the current government actually have any policies. It's a zombie government. Absolutely mind blowing that we have a 5 year government with an 80 seat majority that doesn't actually do anything or have any vision.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 09:59 - May 20 by Swansea_Blue
That's not borne out by the outcomes though. They are most definitely not the same normally, let alone when the comparision is with this particulalrly corrupt and inept Govt.
Sure, nobody's going to have a clean sweep on sanity, decency and fairness. Inequality grew under New Labour for example as they continued macro-economic policies skewed in the direction of company owners and the rich. Yet at the same time, there were many, many things they did that made things better for all of us: largest social mobility of developed nations, record investment in public services with vastly better metrics than we've had since, significant numbers lifted out of poverty (as opposed to being plunged into poverty since), increased social justice and rights, etc. All that has been trashed since.
I think you can just as easily and probably more accurately spin that the other way, Swanners.
13 years of Labour government during an upswing in the global economy ... then of course most of those reductions in poverty (mostly connected to the better global economy rather than any policies themselves) were wiped out by the crash.
Yes Labour did good things. But their inability and/or unwillingness to fix the roof while the sun was shining increased regional inequality and wealth inequality, created the housing crisis by just leaving it to the market and lenders with no social housing builds to redress that, and a drop off in manufacturing and productivity.
It’s a p1ss-poor return and they would also have embraced austerity even if they’d hung on. Utterly wasted opportunity to change direction and avoid most of the current problems. Including Brexit that they played up to by demonizing immigrants and refugees.
It’s no surprise that by returning to those New Labour “principles” the current lot under Starmer are clueless tweakers to the same status quo that’s brought us here. And not offering any substantive policy alternatives to the Tories to address the structural social and economic problems. In fact they’re sometimes jockeying right on issues like our low taxes and low tax take.
Now I see they might be on the verge of compounding that error by going for someone like Streeting ... it’s all just a mind-blowingly empty alternative for an electorate and country that deserves and needs much, much better.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:18 - May 20 with 1750 views
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 10:22 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue
Change isn't the most pressing issue we have. It's decency.
Starmer could come in with pretty much the same set of policies as the current government* and there would be an immediate change in the way that the government conducts itself.
*Not that the current government actually have any policies. It's a zombie government. Absolutely mind blowing that we have a 5 year government with an 80 seat majority that doesn't actually do anything or have any vision.
It is in power for power's sake.
Sorry but that’s specious nonsense pretending it’s about decency.
If we were a company, it’s not a culture we’re addressing it’s our whole business strategy. If you want decency to be part of that fine – but it’s cosmetic without actionable strategies.
And also there’s nothing decent about Starmer and the Labour Right that’s in charge. They lied, cheated and stole to lead the party. Still are. So there needs to be a sea change across the board of the main parties for decency to even come into it.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:28 - May 20 with 1727 views
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 22:45 - May 19 by Cheltenham_Blue
If polls have taught us anything in the last 10 years, its that people don't reveal their true voting intentions to pollsters. Ergo. Polls mean nothing.
Yes, that's why so much money is spent conducting them - and let's be honest, when have exit polls ever been accurate ?
Or
"But even then the polls were narrowing approaching Election Day. "
Which rather suggests they are accurate. I remember predicting how close the 2017 election would be, on here. Simply by watching Survatiuon who were using a more 'inquisitive' method - since adopted by others. Similarly the polls in the recent by elections were accurate.
What we have learned in the past 10 years though, is that if you cannot rubbish the polls, then as a righty, there's always the fall back 'they are all as bad as each other - when ever your lot have been caught with their fingers in the till, in some woman/boys underwear etc
Though I must admit to being shocked by the stunning revelation on here that the election is likely to be more than 2 years off. Whatever next, Johnson is a proven liar ?
Polls are never anything more than a snapshot of voters intentions over a few days. I have never claimed anything else. What I do state is how the longer term trends point towards a likely result. Remember my postings on the points needed to finish in the top six. Not what happened the previous years - but what they pointed to consistently from Jan onwards.
Six months of a consistent and growing Labour lead suggest that the Tories are heading for a wipeout - which suggests many of the blue wall bigots will recognise that only by winching gut bucket out of number 10 will they have any hope. And the constant trailing in the polls points to that becoming a reality sooner, rather than later.
But don't let that stop any of you from aping Blue Todger, and making up stuff I have not said, so as to be able to reply to that instead.
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:35 - May 20 with 1715 views
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:28 - May 20 by HARRY10
Yes, that's why so much money is spent conducting them - and let's be honest, when have exit polls ever been accurate ?
Or
"But even then the polls were narrowing approaching Election Day. "
Which rather suggests they are accurate. I remember predicting how close the 2017 election would be, on here. Simply by watching Survatiuon who were using a more 'inquisitive' method - since adopted by others. Similarly the polls in the recent by elections were accurate.
What we have learned in the past 10 years though, is that if you cannot rubbish the polls, then as a righty, there's always the fall back 'they are all as bad as each other - when ever your lot have been caught with their fingers in the till, in some woman/boys underwear etc
Though I must admit to being shocked by the stunning revelation on here that the election is likely to be more than 2 years off. Whatever next, Johnson is a proven liar ?
Polls are never anything more than a snapshot of voters intentions over a few days. I have never claimed anything else. What I do state is how the longer term trends point towards a likely result. Remember my postings on the points needed to finish in the top six. Not what happened the previous years - but what they pointed to consistently from Jan onwards.
Six months of a consistent and growing Labour lead suggest that the Tories are heading for a wipeout - which suggests many of the blue wall bigots will recognise that only by winching gut bucket out of number 10 will they have any hope. And the constant trailing in the polls points to that becoming a reality sooner, rather than later.
But don't let that stop any of you from aping Blue Todger, and making up stuff I have not said, so as to be able to reply to that instead.
He is correct no need to be so abrasive - polls are very fallible.
There was a chap called Zed (who was almost as odd as yourself) - last seen on here 12th Dec 2019 . quoting the polls and predicting a landslide for Dear Leader.
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:47 - May 20 with 1690 views
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:35 - May 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna
He is correct no need to be so abrasive - polls are very fallible.
There was a chap called Zed (who was almost as odd as yourself) - last seen on here 12th Dec 2019 . quoting the polls and predicting a landslide for Dear Leader.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 22:45 - May 19 by Cheltenham_Blue
If polls have taught us anything in the last 10 years, its that people don't reveal their true voting intentions to pollsters. Ergo. Polls mean nothing.
Polls are a tool for influencing public opinion not reflecting it.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 10:22 - May 20 by GlasgowBlue
Change isn't the most pressing issue we have. It's decency.
Starmer could come in with pretty much the same set of policies as the current government* and there would be an immediate change in the way that the government conducts itself.
*Not that the current government actually have any policies. It's a zombie government. Absolutely mind blowing that we have a 5 year government with an 80 seat majority that doesn't actually do anything or have any vision.
It is in power for power's sake.
Quite. I'm not sure people realise quite how far standards have dropped and how much Johnson has ridden roughshod over the (now obviously insufficient) checks and balances.
That's fine if the next election wasn't another 2.5 years away. People have very short memories, all the tories need to do is act less like cocks for about 6 month before voting day, pay the media to publish a picture of the labour leader awkwardly eating an ice cream or something and that'll be enough for the numpties to vote them back in in their millions.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 11:11 - May 20 by Darth_Koont
I think you can just as easily and probably more accurately spin that the other way, Swanners.
13 years of Labour government during an upswing in the global economy ... then of course most of those reductions in poverty (mostly connected to the better global economy rather than any policies themselves) were wiped out by the crash.
Yes Labour did good things. But their inability and/or unwillingness to fix the roof while the sun was shining increased regional inequality and wealth inequality, created the housing crisis by just leaving it to the market and lenders with no social housing builds to redress that, and a drop off in manufacturing and productivity.
It’s a p1ss-poor return and they would also have embraced austerity even if they’d hung on. Utterly wasted opportunity to change direction and avoid most of the current problems. Including Brexit that they played up to by demonizing immigrants and refugees.
It’s no surprise that by returning to those New Labour “principles” the current lot under Starmer are clueless tweakers to the same status quo that’s brought us here. And not offering any substantive policy alternatives to the Tories to address the structural social and economic problems. In fact they’re sometimes jockeying right on issues like our low taxes and low tax take.
Now I see they might be on the verge of compounding that error by going for someone like Streeting ... it’s all just a mind-blowingly empty alternative for an electorate and country that deserves and needs much, much better.
It's not spin to say that New Labour were better than this current lot. And their poverty record on kids and pensioners was very much a focussed policy decision and not a side effect of the global economic position (relatively poverty dropped significantly for these groups through 2008-10). What's fair to say is that their method of achieving those results wasn't sustainable as it was based around tax credits and benefits. I bet the people who benefitted didn't mind though.
But you're right in that they didn't fundamentally change the economic model to try and achieve sustainable equality (I don't think they ever claimed they would, did they?).
Again though, it's just a question of pragmatism - if you can't have perfect would you rather have awful or something better?
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 16:27 - May 20 by Swansea_Blue
It's not spin to say that New Labour were better than this current lot. And their poverty record on kids and pensioners was very much a focussed policy decision and not a side effect of the global economic position (relatively poverty dropped significantly for these groups through 2008-10). What's fair to say is that their method of achieving those results wasn't sustainable as it was based around tax credits and benefits. I bet the people who benefitted didn't mind though.
But you're right in that they didn't fundamentally change the economic model to try and achieve sustainable equality (I don't think they ever claimed they would, did they?).
Again though, it's just a question of pragmatism - if you can't have perfect would you rather have awful or something better?
That's the real choice. Awful or something better.
And as someone else said, one of the components of better would be decency. Others would be much less corruption, much less knowingly cynical dog whistling and some sort of respect for international law and treaties.
I don't think many people realise the extent to which this governments pathetic grandstanding and sheer ignorance is damaging our standing in the world.
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 16:41 - May 20 with 1505 views
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 16:36 - May 20 by mylittletown
That's the real choice. Awful or something better.
And as someone else said, one of the components of better would be decency. Others would be much less corruption, much less knowingly cynical dog whistling and some sort of respect for international law and treaties.
I don't think many people realise the extent to which this governments pathetic grandstanding and sheer ignorance is damaging our standing in the world.
Even given the current sh1tshow, for Labour to even be the largest party would be fairly miraculous due to the scale of the majorities they have to overturn in traditional marginals.
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 16:36 - May 20 by mylittletown
That's the real choice. Awful or something better.
And as someone else said, one of the components of better would be decency. Others would be much less corruption, much less knowingly cynical dog whistling and some sort of respect for international law and treaties.
I don't think many people realise the extent to which this governments pathetic grandstanding and sheer ignorance is damaging our standing in the world.
We’ve got a Tory party burning down the country. I’m not convinced that a Labour party promising to manage the fire better is even an alternative.
I’d prefer to see the Fire Brigade. Whoever that is.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 19:31 - May 20 with 1440 views
Sanity, decency and fairness is on it's way on 19:31 - May 20 by Trequartista
We're 2 years from a General Election. It can all change 2 days from polling day. Don't waste your time with these polls.
Desperation just oozes out from the righties
And another poll (YouGov), this time with Labour 8 points ahead - a constant lead throughout 2022
And the ever Labour loving Mail now has
"just 53 per cent of those who voted Conservative in 2019 now think the Tories would be best at managing the cost of living",
and a windfall tax has "today’s poll shows it is backed by 75 per cent of voters
"The polls pointing to a loss of 140 Tory MPs will certainly be focussing minds, though some of the not too bright imagine that folk don't tell the truth when questioned. Which is why so many millions are spent conducting them, I suppose.
The fear running through the Tory Party is how hard will it be, once the bloater has been heaved out, to begin repairing the damage, and getting back the trust of voters (something measured by polls). Such is his incompetence in office that his approval rating has hit an all time low, and it continues to sink.
So at what point do they cut the gangerous leg, from the body politic ? How long can they risk not replacing this utterly useless hippo, in the hope they can dump everything on him, and start afresh ?
Mutiny in the County, perhaps - as those in the shires recognise they have a huge (literally) failure in charge. One overseeing criminal behaviour among its MPs, and a clueless, rudderless ship(t) in No 10.
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