| Celina 22:02 - Jun 16 with 6065 views | Stu_boy |
Honest question is he really as good as we make him out to be? Everyone can see he has magical moments and play great passes at times. Equally though he seems to vanish from games and make little impact. When we initially brought him in on loan under mick, the team was pretty dire for championship standards due to years of under investment so we clung onto anything inspiring who could offer a glimpse of attacking flair. Due to that i think he's got through last season on that odd magical moment. However, if we are to really push on we need someone a whole lot more consistent. What are your oppinions? |  | | |  |
| Celina on 22:07 - Jun 16 with 3480 views | Veggie |
Just questioned the same thing on another thread. Sure he’s a good player, but is he worth the money he’s being paid? I would say no. |  | | |
| Celina on 22:13 - Jun 16 with 3443 views | monty_radio |
He is capable of doing things (THAT goal is a supreme example) of which most players in the Championship, let alone L1, can only dream.
But we had a player here back in the day, Stuart Slater, who, at that time was in the Guinness Book of Records as holder of the Keepie-Uppie record. He's not a name that you'll see appearing in any of the E.A.D.T. "my favourite team" features.
Celina is not a one-trick-pony. Nevertheless, he needs to do more of the stuff that the average donkey is expected to get through. | |
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| Celina on 22:23 - Jun 16 with 3403 views | StokieBlue |
The myth of the inconsistent Celina goes from strength to strength.
It's pointless even going through it anymore.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Celina on 22:24 - Jun 16 with 3380 views | wkj |
No Bersant, No Party |  |
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| Celina on 22:26 - Jun 16 with 3376 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Celina on 22:23 - Jun 16 by StokieBlue |
The myth of the inconsistent Celina goes from strength to strength.
It's pointless even going through it anymore.
SB |
To support your statement...
Twine had one of the best returns in the league. 46 games, 20 goals, 13 assists.
Celina played 23 games, 6 goals, 6 assists. Across 23 games, Twine would be 10, 6. Not too dissimilar. |  |
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| Celina on 22:31 - Jun 16 with 3325 views | jayessess |
Attacking midfielders are going to have quiet games, it's in the nature of the position. Ultimately Celina contributed a goal or an assist once every 177 minutes, all of them from open play. Players who directly contribute to a goal every other game are very difficult to find, |  |
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| Celina on 22:32 - Jun 16 with 3324 views | You_Bloo_Right |
Having a player like Celina in the team in L1 is almost like cheating ..... ergo we keep him if we can. |  |
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| Celina on 22:36 - Jun 16 with 3312 views | StokieBlue |
| Celina on 22:26 - Jun 16 by Kropotkin123 |
To support your statement...
Twine had one of the best returns in the league. 46 games, 20 goals, 13 assists.
Celina played 23 games, 6 goals, 6 assists. Across 23 games, Twine would be 10, 6. Not too dissimilar. |
It's also worth noting that Celina isn't actually fully in control of his assist stats.
I lost count of the number of times he put it on a plate only for our front line to fluff it. That context is entirely missed by many.
I hope he is here next season.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Celina on 22:42 - Jun 16 with 3290 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
Ashton and McKenna will be streets ahead of us on here. They will know exactly what Santi brings, and what he is worth to us. They will know the alternatives. They know the lift he gives the fans. They know Santi wants to play in front of ITFC fans every week. All this will be taken into account, and either they will agree to bring him back permanently on a deal that is in the best interests of ITFC, or they will have someone else who can replace him who is better value for money. In other words, don't worry - they know what they are doing. |  |
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| Celina on 23:23 - Jun 16 with 3184 views | Chrisd |
| Celina on 22:26 - Jun 16 by Kropotkin123 |
To support your statement...
Twine had one of the best returns in the league. 46 games, 20 goals, 13 assists.
Celina played 23 games, 6 goals, 6 assists. Across 23 games, Twine would be 10, 6. Not too dissimilar. |
Don’t sub appearances count? When you look at the stats from last season, Celina was involved in 32 league games. I’d like to see a breakdown of those stats to show greater clarity. | |
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| Celina on 23:47 - Jun 16 with 3113 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Celina on 23:23 - Jun 16 by Chrisd |
Don’t sub appearances count? When you look at the stats from last season, Celina was involved in 32 league games. I’d like to see a breakdown of those stats to show greater clarity. |
2131 mins Vs 4066 mins
Goal every 355 vs 203
Assist every 355 Vs 312
You're welcome to break them down further. But the key thing is how you choose to interpret the stats. | |
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| Celina on 23:57 - Jun 16 with 3095 views | Swansea_Blue |
This is exactly the same question that has been asked at every club he’s been at (and why he spent last season in L1). There are some great parts to his game, but something’s missing. His shortcomings are nowhere near as bad as someone’s like JET though, but they’re still there.
That’s not a dig as I like him because he can make things happen. And can do things on the pitch few other people can. Take his chipped gosl this season for example. That could well be one of the best individual goals scored in this league. But you don’t get consistent end product from him (edit - it’s good but others do better, otherwise he’d still be in the PL or a top Championship side). [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 0:08]
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| Celina on 01:31 - Jun 17 with 3004 views | Guthrum |
He might be worth 10 to 15 points next season (similar to the last one). Maybe more if things click with the strikers. Could be vital in determining where we finish. |  |
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| Celina on 02:59 - Jun 17 with 2955 views | franz_tyson |
| Celina on 23:57 - Jun 16 by Swansea_Blue |
This is exactly the same question that has been asked at every club he’s been at (and why he spent last season in L1). There are some great parts to his game, but something’s missing. His shortcomings are nowhere near as bad as someone’s like JET though, but they’re still there.
That’s not a dig as I like him because he can make things happen. And can do things on the pitch few other people can. Take his chipped gosl this season for example. That could well be one of the best individual goals scored in this league. But you don’t get consistent end product from him (edit - it’s good but others do better, otherwise he’d still be in the PL or a top Championship side). [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 0:08]
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Agree with this. Some are getting too wrapped up with stats.... and interpreting them how they want. Bottom line is.... he wasn't as good as we anticipated or paid good for. The reason he didn't get the game time was because he wasn't as effective or consistent as expected. If he was as good as some make out .... he'd be first name on the team sheet. I didn't feel the disbelief when he was benched as often happened.because you never knew what to expect from him. I'd put Walton, Donacien, Woolf, Edmundson, Burns, Morsy and maybe even Chaplin as more important players than him. Yet he was our marquee signing.
And yet he's incredibly talented - but why is he playing in league one? Don't think it's solely because of his love for this club and doing us a favour by dropping down- it's that he hasn't yet managed to harness all his talent into consistent performances that would make him a genuine PL/Championship player.
I just want to get out of this league. I doubt if both Wigan and Rotherham had a player as talented as Celina, yet they left us for dead last season. I'd rather we spent our budget on players who can get us out of this league rather than someone who will mainly contribute to a highlight best moments video.
For what we paid on wages- did we get enough? Even his biggest fans infer he wasn't good enough as they're saying all he needs is a good pre-season and that, for me, is admitting there should have been more to come. | | | |
| Celina on 03:03 - Jun 17 with 2903 views | HighgateBlue |
| Celina on 22:26 - Jun 16 by Kropotkin123 |
To support your statement...
Twine had one of the best returns in the league. 46 games, 20 goals, 13 assists.
Celina played 23 games, 6 goals, 6 assists. Across 23 games, Twine would be 10, 6. Not too dissimilar. |
I am a big Celina fan and I think we should try very hard to retain him.
But Twine's goal ratio is miles better. To suggest otherwise is either mathematically illiterate or just crazy wishful thinking.... |  | | |
| Celina on 04:24 - Jun 17 with 2817 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Celina on 03:03 - Jun 17 by HighgateBlue |
I am a big Celina fan and I think we should try very hard to retain him.
But Twine's goal ratio is miles better. To suggest otherwise is either mathematically illiterate or just crazy wishful thinking.... |
Good job I didn't suggest otherwise then, I'd look stupid if I did that.
What I did do is select the person I thought had the statistically best season in the division (Twine) and place Celina's stats in that context.
The purpose, as I clearly stated, was to statistically support an objection to "the myth of the inconsistent Celina". | |
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| Celina on 06:22 - Jun 17 with 2701 views | LeoMuff |
I wonder if that was the reason we could get him, if he has a full pre season he will be on fire in league 1 |  |
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| Celina on 06:50 - Jun 17 with 2655 views | OwainG1992 |
| Celina on 23:47 - Jun 16 by Kropotkin123 |
2131 mins Vs 4066 mins
Goal every 355 vs 203
Assist every 355 Vs 312
You're welcome to break them down further. But the key thing is how you choose to interpret the stats. |
So Twine is a better option?
He's the one I was desperate for us to go for last summer.
Too late now but if he joins a higher level club I like to think it won't be Hull.
That being said I'd be more than happily surprised if Celina returns. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 7:07]
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| Celina on 07:39 - Jun 17 with 2531 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Celina on 23:57 - Jun 16 by Swansea_Blue |
This is exactly the same question that has been asked at every club he’s been at (and why he spent last season in L1). There are some great parts to his game, but something’s missing. His shortcomings are nowhere near as bad as someone’s like JET though, but they’re still there.
That’s not a dig as I like him because he can make things happen. And can do things on the pitch few other people can. Take his chipped gosl this season for example. That could well be one of the best individual goals scored in this league. But you don’t get consistent end product from him (edit - it’s good but others do better, otherwise he’d still be in the PL or a top Championship side). [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 0:08]
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Exactly my observations from the Cobbold stand. But science/stats or something! |  |
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| Celina on 08:07 - Jun 17 with 2475 views | jayessess |
| Celina on 02:59 - Jun 17 by franz_tyson |
Agree with this. Some are getting too wrapped up with stats.... and interpreting them how they want. Bottom line is.... he wasn't as good as we anticipated or paid good for. The reason he didn't get the game time was because he wasn't as effective or consistent as expected. If he was as good as some make out .... he'd be first name on the team sheet. I didn't feel the disbelief when he was benched as often happened.because you never knew what to expect from him. I'd put Walton, Donacien, Woolf, Edmundson, Burns, Morsy and maybe even Chaplin as more important players than him. Yet he was our marquee signing.
And yet he's incredibly talented - but why is he playing in league one? Don't think it's solely because of his love for this club and doing us a favour by dropping down- it's that he hasn't yet managed to harness all his talent into consistent performances that would make him a genuine PL/Championship player.
I just want to get out of this league. I doubt if both Wigan and Rotherham had a player as talented as Celina, yet they left us for dead last season. I'd rather we spent our budget on players who can get us out of this league rather than someone who will mainly contribute to a highlight best moments video.
For what we paid on wages- did we get enough? Even his biggest fans infer he wasn't good enough as they're saying all he needs is a good pre-season and that, for me, is admitting there should have been more to come. |
I don't think Celina had a perfect season by any means, I just think people are massively overestimating what level of consistency and involvement you're going to get from an attacking midfielder.
You're going to have games where your 10 doesn't get in the game very much, where they can't get the ball in areas where they hurt the opposition (because collectively we're not moving the ball in ways that find them space or because the opposition defend them well). You're going to have games where they try stuff that doesn't come off (because they're trying to do the hardest thing for a footballer to do, the final ball). You're just not going to find a 10 for whom that isn't the case, not even Twine!
If we go out and get an attacking midfielder who makes a direct, concrete contribution from open play as often as Celina did this season, we'll have done really good work. | |
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| Celina on 08:18 - Jun 17 with 2424 views | nodge_blue |
Scored two of the best goals I've ever seen at PR. Super talented. Could do with a bit more strength, and a yard of extra pace. |  |
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| Celina on 08:23 - Jun 17 with 2400 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Celina on 08:07 - Jun 17 by jayessess |
I don't think Celina had a perfect season by any means, I just think people are massively overestimating what level of consistency and involvement you're going to get from an attacking midfielder.
You're going to have games where your 10 doesn't get in the game very much, where they can't get the ball in areas where they hurt the opposition (because collectively we're not moving the ball in ways that find them space or because the opposition defend them well). You're going to have games where they try stuff that doesn't come off (because they're trying to do the hardest thing for a footballer to do, the final ball). You're just not going to find a 10 for whom that isn't the case, not even Twine!
If we go out and get an attacking midfielder who makes a direct, concrete contribution from open play as often as Celina did this season, we'll have done really good work. |
Problem is, it all depends what it is that you are looking for from him. yes if more goals were scored from others his assist stats would be better, but tbh I can ignore assist stats as it relies on others.
But Whilst Celina can score a worldie, he scored 5 goals since November 1st. in an advanced position across 26 games.
In a position which PC & then KM have both said goals are the most important attribute needed in that position. IMO Celina didn't contribute enough in this specific area for us to be bending over backwards to sign him.
That being said, it doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see him return, BUT I'm still not sure KM will go for him. |  |
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| Celina on 08:24 - Jun 17 with 2394 views | Chrisd |
| Celina on 02:59 - Jun 17 by franz_tyson |
Agree with this. Some are getting too wrapped up with stats.... and interpreting them how they want. Bottom line is.... he wasn't as good as we anticipated or paid good for. The reason he didn't get the game time was because he wasn't as effective or consistent as expected. If he was as good as some make out .... he'd be first name on the team sheet. I didn't feel the disbelief when he was benched as often happened.because you never knew what to expect from him. I'd put Walton, Donacien, Woolf, Edmundson, Burns, Morsy and maybe even Chaplin as more important players than him. Yet he was our marquee signing.
And yet he's incredibly talented - but why is he playing in league one? Don't think it's solely because of his love for this club and doing us a favour by dropping down- it's that he hasn't yet managed to harness all his talent into consistent performances that would make him a genuine PL/Championship player.
I just want to get out of this league. I doubt if both Wigan and Rotherham had a player as talented as Celina, yet they left us for dead last season. I'd rather we spent our budget on players who can get us out of this league rather than someone who will mainly contribute to a highlight best moments video.
For what we paid on wages- did we get enough? Even his biggest fans infer he wasn't good enough as they're saying all he needs is a good pre-season and that, for me, is admitting there should have been more to come. |
My thoughts too. | |
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| Celina on 08:29 - Jun 17 with 2351 views | itfcjoe |
He's a clear cut above in League 1, and probably there isn't a Championship squad he wouldn't add real value to.
If we can get him in, and get a full pre season into him he'll be the best player in the league.
I really hope we sign him, but we'll see how it plays out |  |
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