| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:14 - Jun 18 with 1771 views | Mullet |
He's in Wakefield campaigning |  |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:32 - Jun 18 with 1713 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:14 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
He's in Wakefield campaigning |
Is he, I checked his name under news but there was nothing. Do you think it will help as I thought lying low was his preferred modus operandi?
Edit ...I added Wakefield to the search and found him. Seems he's been doing his bit for the 'broad church' and local representation.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/13/wakefield-labour-executive-resi [Post edited 18 Jun 2022 16:40]
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:49 - Jun 18 with 1661 views | J2BLUE |
Do you really not consider him at least the lesser of two evils? |  |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:52 - Jun 18 with 1653 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:49 - Jun 18 by J2BLUE |
Do you really not consider him at least the lesser of two evils? |
Come now, he does seem a BIT boring.
(God, I'm starting to post like Badger!). |  |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:57 - Jun 18 with 1618 views | Swansea_Blue |
Everything Starmer does seems to fall under the category of hedging his bets. Won't condemn Rwanda policy, won't commit to a clear position on the EU, etc. Didn't he also give Streeting a ticking off after he supported the rail strikes? Don't rock the boat.
It'll be interesting to see if it pays off. I don't see how taking no position can win over voters. But then he's got a tough job to win back the floating voters, especially as the country seems to be lurching more towards the right. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:58 - Jun 18 with 1617 views | Mullet |
Rayner, Streeting and plenty of others have all been all over the march and promoting it. He's been in Wakefield where a massive opportunity to bloody Boris is happening.
I get there are legitimate reasons to criticise Starmer, but actually trying to win an election alongside holding the horny bag of custard to account between trips to Kyiv seems an odd one.
It baffles me that the Novara lot and associated Corbynites are still so hypocritical. Rallying against the opposition when the greater evil goes unchecked seems an odd stance from those pretending to be the "Labour left". | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:59 - Jun 18 with 1608 views | Lord_Lucan |
Maybe he was in Kiev where the cost of living crisis is more literal. |  |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:59 - Jun 18 with 1614 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:58 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
Rayner, Streeting and plenty of others have all been all over the march and promoting it. He's been in Wakefield where a massive opportunity to bloody Boris is happening.
I get there are legitimate reasons to criticise Starmer, but actually trying to win an election alongside holding the horny bag of custard to account between trips to Kyiv seems an odd one.
It baffles me that the Novara lot and associated Corbynites are still so hypocritical. Rallying against the opposition when the greater evil goes unchecked seems an odd stance from those pretending to be the "Labour left". |
I'm not sure the Corbynites see BJ's bunch as the greater evil, do they? | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:15 - Jun 18 with 1549 views | JDB23 |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:58 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
Rayner, Streeting and plenty of others have all been all over the march and promoting it. He's been in Wakefield where a massive opportunity to bloody Boris is happening.
I get there are legitimate reasons to criticise Starmer, but actually trying to win an election alongside holding the horny bag of custard to account between trips to Kyiv seems an odd one.
It baffles me that the Novara lot and associated Corbynites are still so hypocritical. Rallying against the opposition when the greater evil goes unchecked seems an odd stance from those pretending to be the "Labour left". |
Eh? There's been plenty of pushback against the "greater evil", doesn't mean you can't also want to get your own house in check at the same time. Starmer had a great deal of support after his election, the fact he's reneged on his pledges, remained silent on key issues, done a complete 180 on local candidate selections as well as being totally uninspiring means of course he will come under fire.
Tired of hearing this lesser of two evils nonsense that never progresses the country in the right direction, often from centrists who voted lib dem in 2019! |  | | |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:19 - Jun 18 with 1529 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:59 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm not sure the Corbynites see BJ's bunch as the greater evil, do they? |
I think they probably do but which is the more dangerous out of the wolf and the one in sheep's clothing is another matter.
Let's see Labour go with something like a guaranteed minimum wage or some such and I will reconsider. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:23 - Jun 18 with 1499 views | Mullet |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:15 - Jun 18 by JDB23 |
Eh? There's been plenty of pushback against the "greater evil", doesn't mean you can't also want to get your own house in check at the same time. Starmer had a great deal of support after his election, the fact he's reneged on his pledges, remained silent on key issues, done a complete 180 on local candidate selections as well as being totally uninspiring means of course he will come under fire.
Tired of hearing this lesser of two evils nonsense that never progresses the country in the right direction, often from centrists who voted lib dem in 2019! |
There really hasn't, not from that section of the political machine. If anything they seem to aid the Tories with their divisionary stance.
I was disappointed to see Starmer's change on tuition fees, but I do understand the why even if I disagree/have a preference he's not following now. The derision towards to Labour voters which Corbyn lost so dramatically is astoundingly arrogant and counter-productive but seems to be endemic amongst the "left".
"Coming under fire" is euphemistic at best isn't it? If these people were true to their beliefs they'd be fighting tooth and nail against the Tories first and foremost. I not it's the anniversary of Orgreave today, I do wonder what Novara et al would be like if they were around during Thatcher's tyranny. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:25 - Jun 18 with 1496 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:19 - Jun 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think they probably do but which is the more dangerous out of the wolf and the one in sheep's clothing is another matter.
Let's see Labour go with something like a guaranteed minimum wage or some such and I will reconsider. |
You could well be right, but it's hard to work it out sometimes. I get the sense many Corbynites feel a greater sense of betrayal from within than anger at what the Tories are doing. It's not easy though - as I've said to Darth loads of times, at least those that want to see the more traditional Labour values of things like nationalisation and much greater workers rights are sticking to their principles. There's a lot to be admired in that.
I sit in the same camp as Wes Streeting, who said this week in his interview with James O'Brien that you've actually got to win an election before you can change anything. That's very true of course. From a Corbynite perspective though, I'm sure they wouldn't believe a promise of a shift to more traditional Labour values after standing on a centrist ticket. Labour are in a bit of a quandary aren't they. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:55 - Jun 18 with 1417 views | jeera |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:25 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
You could well be right, but it's hard to work it out sometimes. I get the sense many Corbynites feel a greater sense of betrayal from within than anger at what the Tories are doing. It's not easy though - as I've said to Darth loads of times, at least those that want to see the more traditional Labour values of things like nationalisation and much greater workers rights are sticking to their principles. There's a lot to be admired in that.
I sit in the same camp as Wes Streeting, who said this week in his interview with James O'Brien that you've actually got to win an election before you can change anything. That's very true of course. From a Corbynite perspective though, I'm sure they wouldn't believe a promise of a shift to more traditional Labour values after standing on a centrist ticket. Labour are in a bit of a quandary aren't they. |
"you've actually got to win an election before you can change anything. That's very true of course."
That's certainly true of the current lot who got themselves elected and have been doing as they please ever since! |  |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:58 - Jun 18 with 1396 views | JDB23 |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:23 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
There really hasn't, not from that section of the political machine. If anything they seem to aid the Tories with their divisionary stance.
I was disappointed to see Starmer's change on tuition fees, but I do understand the why even if I disagree/have a preference he's not following now. The derision towards to Labour voters which Corbyn lost so dramatically is astoundingly arrogant and counter-productive but seems to be endemic amongst the "left".
"Coming under fire" is euphemistic at best isn't it? If these people were true to their beliefs they'd be fighting tooth and nail against the Tories first and foremost. I not it's the anniversary of Orgreave today, I do wonder what Novara et al would be like if they were around during Thatcher's tyranny. |
Not sure where you are looking but I see plenty of criticism and analysis. Some people see a retweet of a guardian article critiquing Starmer and think that is the sum total of journalistic output from the left, it's just simply not true.
Feels like you are also holding independent journalists to a higher standard than the leader of the opposition. Starmer has been incredibly lightweight at holding the government to account.
I don't like to see derision towards those voters you mention, we need to understand why they changed votes. Clearly a big reason in that is Brexit (among others) and yet Brexit voters are constantly derided by so called anti-Tory liberals. I was guilty of this myself but we need to learn lessons if we want to move forward and it would be nice to see some engagement on that rather than pure mud slinging. | | | |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:59 - Jun 18 with 1396 views | HARRY10 |
6 months of a comfortable lead in the polls suggest that 'doing nothing' is paying off. Latest from Survation (yesterday), puts it at 7 points - and they have pretty much been at the lower end of the lead. Even that Survation poll would put Labour 5 seats off victory. Factor in tactical voting, and you have a majority.
At the moment it is only halfway through Parliament, and so why offer up anything when the bigots are continuing to demonstrate how clueless they are. It is, as if there is a cretin of the week award, with Dorries, the stick insect, Rabb, Patel, Simon Clark etc all vying for the title.
No need to comment on Brexit, the evidence is all around - from airports to petrol stations, from farms to factories, with the problems only set to get worse.
The real problems for the opposition will come when the bloated bullshtter is winched out of N.10. A new PM with a cabinet of reasonable ability, looking to clear up the mess of fatsos incompetence will prove a challenge. I expect the movement back into the EU to be accelerated, not just conceded only as becomes absolutely necessary.
Current polling has
Wakefield
Lab 54
Tory 33
Devon
Con 46
Lib 44
(Libdem polling) | | | |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 18:30 - Jun 18 with 1319 views | Mullet |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:58 - Jun 18 by JDB23 |
Not sure where you are looking but I see plenty of criticism and analysis. Some people see a retweet of a guardian article critiquing Starmer and think that is the sum total of journalistic output from the left, it's just simply not true.
Feels like you are also holding independent journalists to a higher standard than the leader of the opposition. Starmer has been incredibly lightweight at holding the government to account.
I don't like to see derision towards those voters you mention, we need to understand why they changed votes. Clearly a big reason in that is Brexit (among others) and yet Brexit voters are constantly derided by so called anti-Tory liberals. I was guilty of this myself but we need to learn lessons if we want to move forward and it would be nice to see some engagement on that rather than pure mud slinging. |
I named Novara pretty specifically, you talk about "some people" in a rather dismissive nature.
I'm not holding Starmer to any standard as the two things aren't comparable or the focus of the discussion. He's not constantly undermining his own party or pining for the fantasy that led to our worst ever PM having a landslide majority.
Twitter, comment sections even here, is full of the sort of thing I'm describing. I wholeheartedly agree with your last comment and that is exactly my sort of disdain for this pro-Corbyn nostalgia and fetishisation of a terrible leader.
The disconnect between "but he had great ideas" and how he carried himself as a leader is truly staggering. You only have to look at Sarkar et al. and their tweets about Labour having to convince them to vote for them for the sort of mindset I'm talking about.
A small and wealthy elite who couldn't get what they wanted trying to derail the Labour party rather than helping to win an election, is a bitter irony. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 18:48 - Jun 18 with 1257 views | JDB23 |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 18:30 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
I named Novara pretty specifically, you talk about "some people" in a rather dismissive nature.
I'm not holding Starmer to any standard as the two things aren't comparable or the focus of the discussion. He's not constantly undermining his own party or pining for the fantasy that led to our worst ever PM having a landslide majority.
Twitter, comment sections even here, is full of the sort of thing I'm describing. I wholeheartedly agree with your last comment and that is exactly my sort of disdain for this pro-Corbyn nostalgia and fetishisation of a terrible leader.
The disconnect between "but he had great ideas" and how he carried himself as a leader is truly staggering. You only have to look at Sarkar et al. and their tweets about Labour having to convince them to vote for them for the sort of mindset I'm talking about.
A small and wealthy elite who couldn't get what they wanted trying to derail the Labour party rather than helping to win an election, is a bitter irony. |
Not sure why you are so incensed over Novara, they’re not some all powerful media outlet that will have a big effect on election results.
Just open up their YouTube and you’ll see plenty of videos tearing the government apart, as well as critiquing Starmer. Why shouldn’t a political party have to win over voters? To call them a wealthy elite is also baffling. | | | |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 18:53 - Jun 18 with 1223 views | Mullet |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 18:48 - Jun 18 by JDB23 |
Not sure why you are so incensed over Novara, they’re not some all powerful media outlet that will have a big effect on election results.
Just open up their YouTube and you’ll see plenty of videos tearing the government apart, as well as critiquing Starmer. Why shouldn’t a political party have to win over voters? To call them a wealthy elite is also baffling. |
They're an example of a media organisation on "the left" catering to a specific clique and subset apologising for Corbyn and sneering at Starmer alongside Jones and the like.
The contention is that their primary focus is on that and the government second, which is why they are helping Johnson through their rhetoric and hypocrisy.
There's literally explanation and example throughout the thread and in posts you've replied to. Refusing to acknowledge it in the same way the OP refuses to acknowledge the opposition is why the Tories will continue to run the country into the ground unfortunately.
I idea I'm "incensed" is just 6th form projection isn't it? The type of cheap and tawdry tactic the gutter press use to try and mitigate their own lack of substance. You're not doing well here frankly. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 19:58 - Jun 18 with 1114 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:55 - Jun 18 by jeera |
"you've actually got to win an election before you can change anything. That's very true of course."
That's certainly true of the current lot who got themselves elected and have been doing as they please ever since! |
Quite. And when you look at the 2019 Labour manifesto, there was a lot of good stuff in there that would benefit all of us. But none of it can happen. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 09:04 - Jun 19 with 903 views | Darth_Koont |
I’m guessing there would have been a real risk of him being booed and jeered if he turned up.
Starmer is no answer to anything. Absolute liability. |  |
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| I guess Keir was busy today on 09:10 - Jun 19 with 893 views | Darth_Koont |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 16:58 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
Rayner, Streeting and plenty of others have all been all over the march and promoting it. He's been in Wakefield where a massive opportunity to bloody Boris is happening.
I get there are legitimate reasons to criticise Starmer, but actually trying to win an election alongside holding the horny bag of custard to account between trips to Kyiv seems an odd one.
It baffles me that the Novara lot and associated Corbynites are still so hypocritical. Rallying against the opposition when the greater evil goes unchecked seems an odd stance from those pretending to be the "Labour left". |
Hypocritical would be supporting policies you don’t agree with. Or politicians you see as empty and scheming.
I don’t get the people who got so silly and smeary about Corbyn … for this? If it was all about paying less tax then they just should have said so. | |
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 09:19 - Jun 19 with 856 views | Darth_Koont |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 18:53 - Jun 18 by Mullet |
They're an example of a media organisation on "the left" catering to a specific clique and subset apologising for Corbyn and sneering at Starmer alongside Jones and the like.
The contention is that their primary focus is on that and the government second, which is why they are helping Johnson through their rhetoric and hypocrisy.
There's literally explanation and example throughout the thread and in posts you've replied to. Refusing to acknowledge it in the same way the OP refuses to acknowledge the opposition is why the Tories will continue to run the country into the ground unfortunately.
I idea I'm "incensed" is just 6th form projection isn't it? The type of cheap and tawdry tactic the gutter press use to try and mitigate their own lack of substance. You're not doing well here frankly. |
That’s not actually true. The Tories are more in their sights but “Tory” tends to also include the Labour Right nowadays.
If you actually see what Novato talk about and promote it’s very much criticising the corrupt establishment with their insufficient self-serving politics and promoting progressive ideas and policies.
If you disagree with those values, fine. But what are your alternatives? Centrist pearl-clutching and cosplaying as the grownups doesn’t cut it. Especially when the sounds coming out of Starmer and the Shadow Cabinet on most issues are centre-right/right wing and not particularly different from Johnson and his clowns. [Post edited 19 Jun 2022 9:21]
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| I guess Keir was busy today. on 09:43 - Jun 19 with 813 views | Darth_Koont |
| I guess Keir was busy today. on 17:15 - Jun 18 by JDB23 |
Eh? There's been plenty of pushback against the "greater evil", doesn't mean you can't also want to get your own house in check at the same time. Starmer had a great deal of support after his election, the fact he's reneged on his pledges, remained silent on key issues, done a complete 180 on local candidate selections as well as being totally uninspiring means of course he will come under fire.
Tired of hearing this lesser of two evils nonsense that never progresses the country in the right direction, often from centrists who voted lib dem in 2019! |
Exactly.
The centre in the UK is increasingly characterised by silly and irrelevant politicians and pundits who’d rather defend Tory values and reinforce neoliberalism than promote actual solutions to the country’s underlying problems. Mainly because the status quo, even with its massive underlying problems, suits them very well. | |
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